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Re: Implementor feedback (dialog and datepickers)

From: Lars Gunther <gunther@keryx.se>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:57:45 +0200
Message-ID: <4A9EDC49.4000209@keryx.se>
To: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
2009-09-02 17:11, Jonas Sicking skrev:

 > However the same effect (alternate voices)
 > can be accomplished using the 'voice-family' property [1] in
 > UAs that support CSS.

Yes, CSS would be the means to implement the actual voice changes, but 
we still need semantics to hook into. Without a dedicated element for 

2009-09-02 18:13, Leif Halvard Silli skrev:
> Lars Gunther On 09-09-02 13.10:
> Even if your students change <dl> to <dialog>, they will still stumble
> upon the unintuitive thing that <dialog> contains <dt> and <dd>, which
> has no meaning what so ever inside a dialog. Thus they will be unable to
> understand dialog unless they know <dl> first.

Yes, just like they would need to know why "links" are called 
"<a>nchors" even though we today do not use <a name="foo"> anymore. But 
a 2 minute history lesson is doable. Tweaking ordered lists, 
block-quotes, quotes and cite elements is not. Example of such IMHO 
convoluted markup (that also feeds into the cite element debate) at:

The most intuitive markup I could think of would otherwise look 
something LIKE this:

   <words class="aside">And yet 'tis almost 'gainst my conscience.</words>
   <words>Come, for the third, Laertes: you but dally;<br>
     I pray you, pass with your best violence;<br>
     I am afeard you make a wanton of me.</words
   <words>Say you so? come on.</words
   <note>They play</note>
   <words>Nothing, neither way.</words
   <words>Have at you now!</words>
   <note>LAERTES wounds HAMLET; then in scuffling, they change rapiers, 
and HAMLET wounds LAERTES</note>

Then I'd use CSS to make the word "aside" be spoken out aloud as well 
fore clarity's sake:

@media speech {
     words.aside:before {
         content: "aside";
         voice-family: narrator;
     .aside {
         voice-stress: reduced;
Since CSS does not have a content selector, one would probably need to 
add classes or something in order to set voices to the correct lines.
Pseudo-markup using JQuery syntax follows:
     speaker:contains("HAMLET") + words {
         voice-family: hamlet;
     /* etc */

But I'd guess there is no real desire to open up the great dialog debate 
that was on the WHATWG list a few years ago.

Lars Gunther
Received on Wednesday, 2 September 2009 20:58:36 UTC

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