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Re: ISSUE-83 ACTION-152 Change Proposal for the use of dt/dd in figure and details

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:48:13 +0100
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Jeroen van der Gun <noreplytopreventspam@blijbol.nl>, public-html <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20091130034813079761.4adeff82@xn--mlform-iua.no>
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:07:21 +0100, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:46:46 -0600, Tab Atkins Jr.:
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Maciej Stachowiak:
>>> This does seem to mitigate the concern. I'm not sure whether it completely
>>> eliminates it. Is <figure> any trickier to use correctly than other new
>>> HTML5 elements, with this technique?
>> Marginally trickier.  The js hack used for the other elements is
>> conceptually simpler, but this hack doesn't depend on js being
>> available, which is a plus.  I don't think the difference in
>> trickiness is significant.

> Second, if we can accept wrapping the element in a <div>, then HTML 4 
> already has <object>. (IE6 and 7 requires that <div> - otherwise it is 
> not required.) <object> already creates a new outline context - as 
> <figure> is supposed to do (it is bound to take a long time before it 
> happens).

A IE6/IE7 safe version could look like this [1]:

  <p>Caption inside the element your prefer, even h1-h6</p>
    <div> <!-- div for best compatibility with IE6/7 -->
 		<img src="image" alt="text">
        <p>figure content goes here</p>

Another option than the <div> inside <object> a <span> around the 
<object> [2]. This depends only depends on how we define the <figure> 
element - it is perfectly valid HTML 4 to have a span around the 
<object>, and it is IE6/7 compatible as well. But it is perhaps 
simplest to define the <figure> as an element with OBJECT element with 
an optional captioning element.

The purpose of the <object> element is to instantiate a new outline 
context and to separate the figure content from the figure caption. 
Object already has that feature.

The above can work without whether document.createElement("figure"); or 
the <span>/<div> wrappers. But of course, for best CSS control, 
wrapping is needed in IE6/IE7, if you don't want to use javscript.

I think this proposal has the advantage of making <figure> more like 
<article>, <section> etc: A semantic wrapper around features that HTML 
4 already have. 

Another advantage is that it solves the outline issue, since the 
outline context is created by <object> rather than by <figure>. That 
way, the author can himself/herself decide whether the caption of the 
figure content (the object) is supposed to become part of the general 
document structure (if you use a h1-h6 element) or just a local caption 
(if you use another element.)

[1] Demo using span: 
[2] Demo using div:
leif halvard silli
Received on Monday, 30 November 2009 02:48:53 UTC

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