- From: Ben Boyle <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:06:35 +1000
- To: "Jim Jewett" <jimjjewett@gmail.com>
- Cc: "HTML WG" <public-html@w3.org>, Smylers@stripey.com
sorry missed a key "not" in this sentence: - if we do *not* stamp code as 'compliant html' (due to accessibility issues) then authors/developers may give up on compliance altogether. i.e. @alt raises the compliance bar ... there are pros and cons associated with that. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Ben Boyle <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Olivier GENDRIN reminded us of > > http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance-claims > > > > and Smylers wrote: > > > That has two levels of conformance, with a 'partial > > > conformance' exception for included external content. > > > Are you suggesting something similar for HTML 5? > > > > Yes; there has been resistance in the past to multiple levels of > > conformance, but this does provide a pathway. > > > We already have (at least) two key paths for "conformance": HTML > conformance + WCAG conformance. > > Markup that follows HTML guidelines (and therefore results in the > desired DOM) is compliant. > Markup that doesn't follow the guidelines invokes the error handling > defined by HTML5 (which results in a usable DOM) is NOT compliant. > > Compliant HTML may or may not be accessible; therefore it may or may > not be WCAG compliant. > > On the omission of @alt ... It does not prevent the creation of a > usable DOM (in the way mismatched or unexpected tags or unknown syntax > does). It does impact accessibility. Therefore (imho) it belongs in > WCAG, not HTML. > > I'm aware of these differing points of view: > - if we stamp code as 'compliant html' it doesn't raise > author/developer awareness of accessibility issues. > - if we do stamp code as 'compliant html' (due to accessibility > issues) then authors/developers may give up on compliance altogether. > > I'm of the opinion we should give authors/developers some credit to > make decisions about what level of compliance checking they need to > undertake, and what they do with the results. (Many education/outreach > efforts exist to expand this, and they need to continue). In some > situations, I can see an author/developer wanting and/or needing to > assess the html compliance. Sometimes a task being undertaken is at > that level. Building authoring tools seems the most obvious, where > checking the output html is compliant is #1. Possibly they need to > balance this with ATAG compliance more than WCAG ... > > Anyway, that's my opinion. Keep html compliance tightly focussed on > ensuring source markup follows the guidelines and doesn't invoke any > of the exception handling defined by html5 (or warn where it does so > the markup can be fixed). That's what I need as an author. When I want > to check accessibility (and I will) I will check compliance against > WCAG, not HTML5. > > Now if you want to address the concern of raising awareness of > accessibility issues when checking html compliance, then build WCAG > compliance checking into the same tool that does html5 compliance > checking. Enable it by default and allow testers to disable it, > perhaps? > > Hope this is a somewhat helpful addition to a long discussion. So much > talk of alt, I'm getting thoroughly tired of the attribute! > > Has anyone asked ... if I use <figure> and <legend> with an <img>, do > I need to use @alt as well? > In the short term, I'd consider it essential for accessibility. But > longterm, when assistive technology catches up and penetrates the > customer base (yes I know this takes ages), I'm fully confident figure > + legend could be enough in many situations and @alt should be > optional (and I could use alt="" I know, but I'd be happy to leave it > out. Less typing.) > > cheers > Ben >
Received on Monday, 5 May 2008 03:07:08 UTC