Re: Exploring new vocabularies for HTML

Neil, I would say "exporting" is half of "round-tripping"...so I think
that's covered.

Ian,

Here's another use case:

5. The ability to animate elements in a web page (hypertext, vector
graphics) without using script.
  * sizes, positions, opacities, colors, transforms (basically most
attributes and properties)
  * time-based and DOM event triggering for begin/end
  * linear, spline interpolation
  * inlined (for simple web pages) and non-inlined animations (to promote
separation of content and presentation)

Regards,
Jeff

On 3/25/08, Neil Soiffer <Neils@dessci.com> wrote:
>
> What about compatibility with XHTML?  Right now, one can take an XHTML
> document and serve it up as HTML and it (mostly) works.  If one adds MathML
> or SVG, than they must have a namespace associated with them and it would be
> useful if they too worked.  This means that HTML5 needs to handle namespaces
> to some extent.  At a minimum, if HTML5 "ignores" them, it needs to ignore
> the namespace syntax and semantics so as to preserve the XHTML meaning of
> these for MathML and SVG.
>
> The other issue that you seemed to miss is "export".  If someone copies
> the SVG or MathML from a document, it should be serialized as per those
> specs (including any namespace requirements) so that it can be pasted into a
> SVG or MathML consuming app.  This may not change your solution in that you
> might require browsers that provide a serialization that follows the specs,
> but you did omit export from your use cases.
>
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> neils@dessci.com
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of Equation Editor, MathType, MathPlayer and MathFlow ~
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've read all 367 e-mails that were sent to the WHATWG, the HTMLWG, and
> > to
> > other forums on the topic of MathML, SVG, namespaces, etc, in HTML,
> > spanning threads from 2006 to 2008. [1]
> >
> > I've tried to summarise the problems (use cases) that people want
> > solved,
> > along with what they consider most important when faced with those
> > problems [2]:
> >
> >  1. Putting an equation in a Web page.
> >     Priorities:
> >      * Maintainability
> >      * Searchability
> >      * Accessibility
> >      * Typographically-sound printing
> >      * Ease of authoring (are authors willing to learn new formats?)
> >      * Ease of import from existing documents
> >      * Ease of implementation (are UAs willing to implement new
> > formats?)
> >      * Resistance to errors (e.g. not brittle in the face of syntax
> > errors)
> >
> >  2. Migrating from LaTeX to HTML.
> >     Priorities:
> >      * Fidelity
> >
> >  3. Writing a document by hand, with inline diagrams imported from a
> >     graphics package.
> >     Priorities:
> >      * Compatibility with existing graphics packages
> >      * Resistance to errors (e.g. not brittle in the face of syntax
> > errors)
> >      * Scriptable (retained-mode, with DOM support, without requiring
> >        cross-frame scripting)
> >      * Round-tripping (the ability to take image fragments from a Web
> > page
> >        and edit them)
> >
> >  4. Writing documents that include diagrams that include
> >     typographically-correct mathematics.
> >
> > Philip also wrote a detailed story, which touches on several of the
> > points
> > above, of what we want to enable. In addition to the points above, his
> > requirements include a solution for ID clashes in multiple-document
> > transclution, and a solution for embedding custom non-visible data in an
> > HTML document for scripting purposes. [3]
> >
> >
> > Now, please, if I've missed something that you want to do, please let me
> > know as soon as possible. I intend to start working on solutions to
> > these
> > problems tomorrow, and things that aren't on the list of problems will
> > likely not be considered as constraints.
> >
> > In particular, people seemed to jump to solutions that the above
> > problems
> > don't imply. For example, nowhere in the above list of problems do
> > namespaces appear anywhere, yet the majority of the discussion revolved
> > around namespace issues. If this is because I've missed a problem that
> > in
> > fact requires those solutions, please tell me as soon as possible.
> >
> > I cannot solve problems I don't know exist!
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.whatwg.org/issues/#html-parsing-rules-namespaces-discussion
> > [2] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/New_Vocabularies
> > [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Mar/0156.html
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
> > http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> > Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
> >
>
>