- From: Robert Burns <rob@robburns.com>
- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:39:00 -0500
- To: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Superscript and subscript: I think we would be moving in the wrong direction if we try to redefine or refine presentational elements to be non-presentational elements. Mnemonics is important and authors will tend to use these for subscript and superscript presentation because of their names. It is also counter-productive to try to suggest they are semantic. Like bold and italics (or even more so) there is often a need to present content in either subscript or superscript due to so many semantics the language just cannot justify all the uses. The example of TeX is a good one, since its hard to imagine what semantic element HTML could include that would accommodate such cases. So just use a presentational element if its presentation that's needed there. The current draft says: "These elements must only be used to mark up typographical conventions with specific meanings, not for typographical presentation for presentation's sake. For example, it would be inappropriate for the sup and sub elements to be used in the name of the LaTeX document preparation system. In general, authors should not use these elements if the absence of those elements would not change the meaning of the content." Quite the contrary. These elements are meant to present their contents as either subscript or superscript. The goal of semantics is not to only use presentation to convey semantics. Rather its to differentiate semantics through markup differentiation (in part so that it can be differntiated in presentation). So instead the advice this paragraph should offer is to use other namespaces, class names from microformats and other authoring communities to achieve the desired presentation whenever possible. When such elements and class names are unavailable, instead use <sub> and <sup>. For example, a miccformat might exist for chemical molecular markup such as class='molecule-count'. The markup: <p>mix liberally with H<span class='molecule-count'>2</span>O</p> would be presented through an accompanying microformat recommended stylesheet as an "H" with a subscript "2" and an "O". If no such micfroformat semantic was available, it should be marked-up as: <p>mix liberally with H<sub>2</sub>O</p> We don't need to change these elements to be other than what they are. These are perhaps the presentational elements with the best use- case justification for remaining in HTML. It is true that the various semantic uses of <sub> and <sup> would best be covered by semantic elements. However, it only confuses he issue to treat presentational elements as if they are semantic elements. Both the Tex example (along with the HTML4 French abbreviation example) strikes me as precisely the reason we need these elements in HTML. In both instances, there would be little likelihood of a microformat or XML namespace that covered those use-cases (so again, just use <sub> and <sup>). This example should be reworded in a more informative language. It reads like a more normative pronouncement. "When the sub element is used inside a var element, it represents the subscript that identifies the variable in a family of variables." Something like: For example: "Authors may use the sub element inside a var element to represent the subscript that identifies the variable in a family of variables." This is one possibility. Authors may find other uses for a sub element inside a var element and we should not prohibit those uses. Other uses might include molecular count if an author wanted to use the <var> to discuss a particular molecule.. There are likely other uses too. The point is that this should be rephrased to sound like an example rather than roughly like normative prose.
Received on Friday, 20 July 2007 09:39:18 UTC