{minutes} HTML WG teleconference 2007-11-06 [resend]

[re-sending to public-html so tracker will catch actions]


  ChrisWilson, DaveSinger, GregoryRosmaita, MikeSmith,

  Anne van Kesteren



* Topics
   1. Review of open issues and actions
* Summary of Action Items

Review of open issues and actions


   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-16 -- Dan Connolly to put question in issue-15:
   does the working group want to do <canvas> -- due 2007-11-29 --

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/16


   <ChrisWilson> TrackbotNG, close Action-16

   <ChrisWilson> trackbot-ng, close action-16

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-16 put question in issue-15: does the working
   group want to do <canvas> closed

   <ChrisWilson> thanks


   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-24 -- Gregory Rosmaita to suggest accessibility
   improvement for "Big issue" marker -- due 2007-11-30 --

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/24


   [skipping ACTION-24 for now until OedipusWrecked shows up]


   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-25 -- Dan Connolly to review offline-webapps
   (proxy for Sam Ruby) -- due 2007-11-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/25


   ChrisWilson: Sam completed his review. So this action is done.

   <ChrisWilson> trackbot-ng, close action-25

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-25 review offline-webapps (proxy for Sam Ruby)

   <ChrisWilson> extending Action-11 on Dan until next week.


   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-11 -- Dan Connolly to show how <div
   aria="something"> works with URI based extensibility -- due
   2007-12-11 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/11


   [note that I think DanC did spend some time yesterday on ACTION-11
   but not sure what has been done]

   <ChrisWilson> ACTION-27?

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-27 -- Dan Connolly to draft a Memorandum of
   Understanding (MoU) with microformats.org regarding @rel values --
   due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/27


   <ChrisWilson> extending...

   I know nothing of status on that issue.

   <dsinger> help. can someone mute their microphone when they are next
   to the washing machine?

   <ChrisWilson> action-31?

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-31 -- Dan Connolly to see that Singer's summary
   makes it to the SJC/Dec W3C video workshop, possibly by confirming
   Singer's attendance -- due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/31


   dsinger: I won't be at the video workshop, will be in Japan, other
   Apple rep will be there.

   dsinger: I sent info to Philippe LH and to Rigo of W3C

   <ChrisWilson> ACTION-32?

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product
   name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something
   else, eventually -- due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32


   <ChrisWilson> was there a really short push to change the name in
   the product?

   <ChrisWilson> (I mean in the issue tracker, not in the document

   ChrisWilson, no not high priority

   <ChrisWilson> I'm looking at the issues discussed over the last week
   to see if there's anything high-pri

   <ChrisWilson> Other than ACTION-24, assigned to Gregory, I think
   we're done with review for the day.


   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-24 -- Delete "should support Ogg" clause before
   publishing FPWD? -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/24


   dsinger: there is general consensus that we should ideally have a
   recommended format, but don't have consensus on what... so better to
   have a placeholder for now

   <ChrisWilson> I'm happy to put Dave's placeholder into the spec for

   ChrisWilson: I agree we have not reached a consensus on this

   dsinger: we need W3C staff (PLH and Rigo) to advise on how to move
   forward with this

   <ChrisWilson> Created action 39 to track


   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-39 -- Dan Connolly to chairs to discuss action
   on video/audo codec and container with Philippe et al post the video
   workshop -- due 2007-12-20 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/39


   <ChrisWilson> I think we've reached consensus that the placeholder
   for video/audio should be used until we reach consensus,

   <oedipus> i just got back to the laptop -- let me find the phone

   <Lachy> oedipus, regarding the accessibility of the Big Issue
   markers, your mail talked about the accessibility of CSS generated
   contnet. However, the Big Issue markers are inserted into the page
   with JavaScript, so screen readers should be able to read them

   <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say re: ACTION-24 that he was
   surprised by hixie's reply about editors' drafts not reflecting
   changes from draft to draft using INS and DEL -- aren't

   oedipus - no, editor's drafts do not necessarily need to use INS and
   DEL or anything else to show changes

   oedipus: normal issues an Big Issue are styled the same

   <dsinger> but I think that Ian no longer knows what the semantic
   difference is either...

   oedipus: that's the problem

   <Lachy> The specific changes to the spec can be monitered using SVN.
   Using <ins> and <del> on a draft that changes so much is way too
   much work

   <dsinger> we'd need a definition of what makes an issue "big" ...
   and ...

   <Lachy> oedipus, normal issues and big issues are actually styled

   <dsinger> we'd need to go through all the issues and make sure that
   they are all correctly classified

   <Lachy> they just share some common styles

   <Hixie> i'm here

   <Hixie> wassup

   Hixie - please see comments from oedipus above

   <ChrisWilson> we're discussing INS/DEL

   <ChrisWilson> and comment from Lachy

   <Hixie> the editor's drafts just happen every time i generate the
   spec, which can be multiple times a day... i'm not sure what use the
   ins/del markup would be

   <Hixie> (when would i remove them?)

   <ChrisWilson> WDs?

   <Hixie> there's a number of ways of tracking changes to the spec,
   including diff e-mails, subversion and cvs logs and diffs, twitter
   messages for non-editorial changes, and a web page that lets you
   filter the changes to just show what matters to you

   <Hixie> ChrisWilson: well since we haven't had a single WD yet
   presumably that would be one big <ins> element covering the whole

   <Hixie> ChrisWilson: i'm quite happy for us to generate html-based
   diffs between WDs if we publish frequent WDs, which i agree we

   <hober> All of those existing mechanisms have the advantage that
   they don't require Hixie's editing behavior to radically change.

   <hober> Updating ins/dels on each edit adds significant editing
   overhead for what benefit, given the existing tools?

   <Hixie> well if i were to add ins/del markup, i certainly wouldn't
   do it manually. i'd have to find some sort of tool to do it

   <hober> s/find/write/, most likely

   <Hixie> i don't have the bandwidth to write a diffing tool :-(

   oedipus: the current mechanisms for following changes to the spec
   need to be linked to more prominently on the WG home page

   <Hixie> but i'd happily use whatever tool people provided

   <Hixie> (the same way as i happily embedded the spec splitter tool
   and the spec to pdf convertor tool and the pubrules tool into my

   <Hixie> so much for that

   <Hixie> :-/

   <scribe> ACTION: Michael(tm) to add links on HTML WG to mechanism
   for watching changes to the HTML5 spec [recorded in

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-40 - Add links on HTML WG to mechanism
   for watching changes to the HTML5 spec [on Michael(tm) Smith - due

   any additional business for today's call?

   <Philip> http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/diff/ etc?


   <ChrisWilson> hmm. Yeah, that might work, I suppose.

   <Hixie> try it

   <Hixie> :-)

   <ChrisWilson> (I was asking for Gregory, not for me)

   oedipus: PF / Al Gilman will plan to take "aria-" proposal to
   Hypertext CG
   ... that is consensus of PF WG
   ... Jim Allen wanted me to remind that HTML WG that since what they
   do is UA conformance, they would like to assist in any way possible
   with UA conformance section of HTML5 spec
   ... that is UAWG

   <Hixie> (actually if anyone does want me to add some sort of html
   diffing to the pipeline, what would be really useful would be if
   they could provide me with a web service where i could upload two
   html files and get back an html file with the diffs)

   Hixie - we now have such a tool

   will get the URL for you

   <Hixie> (that's basically how the pubrules and spec splitting things
   happen -- i have a web service on a separate computer on the
   internet that takes those two files and returns the files to upload)

   <Hixie> MikeSmith: cool

   oedipus: UAWG realizes it needs to work to get their concerns
   addressed by trying whenever possible to get accessibility
   features/considerations into core specs

   <ChrisWilson> other issues/topics?

   <ChrisWilson> move to adjourn?

   <ChrisWilson> thanks all

   [meeting adjourned]

   <ChrisWilson> adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Michael(tm) to add links on HTML WG to mechanism for
   watching changes to the HTML5 spec [recorded in

Michael(tm) Smith

Received on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 01:12:50 UTC