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RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-12-06 - Actions, Document Status, Task Force reports, Mailing list

From: Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 18:02:31 +0000
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "public-html-wg-announce@w3.org" <public-html-wg-announce@w3.org>
CC: Kris Krueger <krisk@microsoft.com>, "Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net)" <janina@rednote.net>
Message-ID: <f5390725c01d495fb84bae716db6e7ee@BL2PR03MB604.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Minutes -> http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html

                              - DRAFT -

                       HTML Weekly Teleconference

06 Dec 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012OctDec/0019.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          glenn, adrianba, paulc, Janina_Sajka, hober,
          [Microsoft], cabanier, krisk, Eliot, jaymunro,
          Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, Barbara

   Regrets
   Chair
          Paul Cotton

   Scribe
          Adrian Bateman

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6
         2. [6]New Issues This Week
         3. [7]HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D
         4. [8]HTML Microdata
         5. [9]Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents
         6. [10]HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text
            alternatives
         7. [11]Main Element
         8. [12]ARIA in HTML
         9. [13]HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D
        10. [14]Testing Task Force
        11. [15]Accessibility Task Force
        12. [16]Media Task Force
        13. [17]Other Business
        14. [18]Scribe for next meeting
        15. [19]Adjournment
     * [20]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 06 December 2012

   <scribe> ScribeNick: adrianba

   <scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6

   ACTION-223?

   <trackbot> ACTION-223 -- Paul Cotton to figure out how
   extension specs can refer to HTML 5.1 -- due 2012-11-08 --
   CLOSED

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223

     [21] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223

   paulc: i put this off last week to remind myself of the context
   ... we decided during the media call on tuesday that this was
   unnecessary
   ... so i closed the action and don't expect further action is
   needed

New Issues This Week

   paulc: none
   ... tracker requests being postponed

HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D

   paulc: the drafts are being worked on
   ... believe this is still a work in progress

   Eliot, not done yet but expecting robin will finish today

   paulc: as soon as the drafts are ready, we will do a 7 day CfC
   ... with goal of publishing on dec 17
   ... questions?

HTML Microdata

   paulc: we have a candidate CR working draft
   ... did a call for rationale statements since CfC did not pass
   ... manu has provided statements against CR
   ... believe we have pro position from Mike Smith
   ... some other pro statements on the list
   ... original plan was to do preference poll with these
   statements
   ... chairs wondering if are ready for this

   <hober> ack

   hober: i posted to the list volunteering for this

   <paulc> Ted's email:
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/004
   1.html

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/0041.html

   paulc: i missed that, sorry
   ... how long will it take to close this

   hober: i said by end of business tomorrow - i imagine it
   collating the existing statements rather than new writing

   paulc: great, that's what i was hoping for
   ... anticipate preference poll going out when ted finishes his
   work

Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents

   paulc: here we don't yet have a candidate CR draft
   ... asked editors to provide with exit criteria
   ... other item pending waiting for a pro statement for
   publishing this or making it normative

   [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2012D
   ec/0003.html

     [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2012Dec/0003.html

   paulc: Eliot do you know what the situation for exit criteria
   is?

   Eliot: based on discussion with the chairs i thought i didn't
   need to do this until it was decided if this would go to Rec
   ... started working on this and might have it soon

   <gitbot> 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to
   06master:
   02[24]https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/df69216520fc4c15df069a
   63e842e78302a495b0

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/df69216520fc4c15df069a63e842e78302a495b0

   <gitbot> 13html/06master 14df69216 15Robin Berjon: boilerplate
   level 2 and nightly

   paulc: that's fine - good to do it soon if you can
   ... wanted to point WG members to the TAG discussion about
   retaining the original request for polyglot document or not

   [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Nov/0047.ht
   ml

     [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Nov/0047.html

   <gitbot> 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to
   06FPWD51:
   02[26]https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6306692cbe44b0f38676a7
   73785e45b679de4cbb

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6306692cbe44b0f38676a773785e45b679de4cbb

   <gitbot> 13html/06FPWD51 146306692 15Robin Berjon: level 2 and
   5.1 with a space

   paulc: believe TAG is meeting yesterday or today
   ... thread is continuing

   <paulc> Recent TAG discussion:
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Dec/0034.ht
   ml

     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Dec/0034.html

   paulc: eliot, i note that larry has asked for you to be engaged
   in the discussion

   Eliot: i sent mail to Noah to see what he thought would be
   appropriate
   ... willing to engage as needed

   paulc: two items to worry about - normativity of document and
   moving to CR
   ... yours is about Rec track, adrianba?

   adrianba: yes, but i included a note on normative

   paulc: we can hold this for a week or so to see how the TAG
   closes this down
   ... i will track this and will try to get preference poll out
   once we have appropriate evidence
   ... comments?

HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives

   paulc: do have canidate CR draft but need exit criteria
   ... currently pending work by a11y TF
   ... plan 2014 pointed to some work that TF had done
   ... discussed on TF meeting this morning
   ... janina, can you give us an update?

   janina: the outcome of today's discussion was to ask that
   publication of this be deferred while we resolve issues about
   alt in this document and the html spec
   ... we will do a CfC based on the telcon
   ... expect that we will ask this to be deferred

   paulc: one item was that the chairs had encouraged TF to work
   with editors to get differences resolved
   ... but we didn't know the status on the TF this morning
   ... wanted to get status from robin or the other editors
   ... moving this forward to CR is on hold for now waiting for
   pending work
   ... people probably think we don't need a spec overlapping
   html5 normative language
   ... janina, do you agree?

   janina: think so

Main Element

   paulc: CfC passed
   ... provisional date is dec 17

ARIA in HTML

   [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012No
   v/0147.html

     [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0147.html

   paulc: this is a request to publish as FPWD - waiting for
   feedback on whether ready for CfC

   janina: i missed the meetings about this so didn't follow up
   ... PF did approve but didn't follow-up
   ... no reason why we can't do CfC

   paulc: plan is to do CfC for publishing of FPWD of using ARIA
   in HTML
   ... will work with janina on this
   ... both in task force and working group simultaneously

   janina: and in PF

HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D

   <Zakim> plh, you wanted to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next

   plh: i believe that robin is ready (and he is on the phone)

   paulc: can we get the URLs of the stable docs in IRC

   plh: yes

   <darobin> [29]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/

     [29] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/

   <plh>
   [30]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html

     [30] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html

   <plh>
   [31]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.
   html

     [31] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.html

   <plh> Robin, please type in here

   <darobin> it looks like it isn't working

   <darobin> I'll type

   <darobin> those drafts should be okay

   <darobin> (not sure if I need to add more)

   <darobin> please check that they're correct

   paulc: we need to do a separate CfC on publication of these
   drafts, correct?

   plh: correct

   paulc: would like to do this today so we can hit dec 17
   ... think will do two separate CfCs

   <darobin> we need to pick a shortname for canvas2d2

   <darobin> this can be done outside the call, by executive
   decision

   <plh> "2dcontext-2" ?

   paulc: chairs and team will figure out short name
   ... every working draft has a short name
   ... plh, for these FPWD does this request have to go to chairs
   list?

   <glenn> c2d

   plh: yes, it's FPWD, no directors request just sent to chairs
   list

   paulc: did this happen for main element?

   plh: no, not yet

   paulc: okay, this needs to happen too

   <paulc> 1. Chairs message on main element to chairs@w3.org

   <paulc> 2. Chairs messgae on HTML5.1 and Canvas2D-2 to
   Chairs@w3.org

   <paulc> 3. Cfc on FPWD of HTML 5.1

   <paulc> 4. CfC on FPWD of Canvas2D-2

   paulc: is this correct?

   <paulc> 5. CfC on FPWD of ARIA in HTML (also in PF and A11Y TF)

   <paulc> 6. Chairs message on FPWD of ARIA in HTML to
   chairs@w3.org

   paulc: think this is all the publication things?

   plh: what is the minimum duration for canvas2d in CR?

   paulc: don't know

   <jaymunro> moving to 6mong

   plh: was a discussion after CfC about reducing duration
   ... think it was only 6 months
   ... not sure if acknowledged anywhere

   paulc: was this in the archive?

   plh: yes but i'm looking for the conclusion of the discussion

   paulc: last week's minutes say we had no objections and request
   to reduce duration of CR
   ... and were expecting decision by next week

   <jaymunro> I'll change the boilerplate once the decision has
   been made for shortening to 6 months.

   plh: last week sam said decision would be made by this week -
   are you asking for a CfC now?

   paulc: plh, what is your recommendation?

   plh: one way to go is to see what people on this call think
   ... say it will be 6 months unless someone says something on
   the list within one week

   <paulc> From Rik:
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/021
   2.html

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0212.html

   paulc: will reply to the thread stating it will be 6 months
   unless someone objects by some date

   <paulc> 7. Chairs to confirm with WG that min duration for
   Canvas CR will be 6 months

   paulc: plh, anything else?

   plh: no, sorry for disturbing the agenda

Testing Task Force

   krisk: we met on nov 20
   ... and we met on tuesday

   <krisk> Notes
   [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2
   012Dec/0001.html

     [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0001.html

   <krisk> and
   [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2
   012Dec/0002.html

     [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0002.html

   krisk: here are the notes
   ... one thing we agreed is moving towards short names for test
   organisation
   ... this came up a little a tpac
   ... 1. this means we don't need metadata in every test
   ... 2. it will help understand coverage of tests
   ... we spent one meeting for 90 minutes - longer than usual
   ... and this week the full hour
   ... discussing how to use mercurial better
   ... using pull model instead of pushing things in
   ... meeting again to make progress on this
   ... more participation
   ... that's it

   paulc: any questions?
   ... krisk, can you give us the most definitive link to work on
   task force?

   krisk: the meeting notes are the best links

   paulc: thanks kris

Accessibility Task Force

   janina: activity is picking up again with reorg that came with
   plan 2014
   ... people getting clarity of who is doing which piece

   <krisk> This is the best link for Testing Task Force
   Information [35]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

     [35] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

   janina: had CfC for longdesc spec that restore old historical
   one
   ... mostly supportive but some objections
   ... will summarise and respond to all objections before passing
   to WG
   ... that work is ongoing
   ... already talked about alt text issues a few minutes ago -
   nothing to add
   ... bug triage team continues to meet
   ... i'm paying more attention to a11y api mapping subteam
   ... deliverable for HTML WG to show how html elements and
   attributes should map to OS apis
   ... important deliverable - difficult to find a meeting time
   because of location of participants
   ... that's where we are

Media Task Force

   paulc: we restarted the meetings
   ... high level report is driving the MSE and EME sub groups to
   get a document in front of WG that could be FPWD as soon as
   possible
   ... MSE met on tuesday, EME met next tuesday
   ... for MSE identified 5 or 6 bugs that need to be fixed before
   FPWD
   ... won't go to zero bugs but should be enough for FPWD
   ... hoping to achieve the same for EME next week
   ... expecting to be ready for CfC for FPWD in January
   ... talked about a11y TF paying more attention to media TF

Other Business

   paulc: update on public-html-admin
   ... list is set-up and is being used for non-technical
   discussions
   ... next item is to get new bugzilla message to go to this list
   ... all new CfC discussed today will also go to that list
   ... leaving public-html for pure technical discussion

   glenn: i would advise that bugzilla messages go to separate
   list than admin

   paulc: there is a list for this already - WG has previous
   decision in place asking for new messages only to public-html
   ... changing the destination but maintaining that there is a
   list everyone is subscribed to that gets the new messages

   glenn: then i withdraw my comment

   paulc: appears to be a request with no responses about
   publishing their document via the HTML WG
   ... added to the agenda because not sure how to process this

   [36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/017
   3.html

     [36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0173.html

   paulc: plh, i wasn't sure how to respond to this - nobody has
   responded
   ... CG has asked about publishing use cases

   plh: seems to me good to publish use cases as WG note

   adrianba: haven't had time to respond but we are supportive of
   moving this forward in HTML WG based on great work in the CG

   paulc: so you support publishing both?

   adrianba: yes

   paulc: this was discussed at TPAC - was the the conclusion to
   move forward with both specs

   hober: that's how i remember it

   paulc: are you ready to publish or do you want to process bugs?

   hober: i haven't asked for fpwd because i want to process bugs
   ... expect to be ready in early january

   plh: is the intent to pick a winner down the road or do we see
   both going to rec

   hober: think given the timeframe for plan 2014 we have a pretty
   good window of time to figure this out so i'm okay with
   uncertainty
   ... that said, would be easy to merge srcset document

   plh: i was thinking about merging the two proposals for
   responsive images
   ... think it would be good in status of documents to give
   information about expectation of the group
   ... because people might wonder about publishing two competing
   specs

   hober: happy to update status in that way

   paulc: i will respond to the msg 173 saying editor of srcset
   extension proposal has asked for time to process bugs
   ... and expect to process CfC on theses docs in early 2013

   hober: sounds good

   paulc: will move this to admin list

   hober: given it is december, expect people will accept early
   2013 timeframe

   paulc: any other business?

Scribe for next meeting

   paulc: expect mjs will chair next week
   ... any volunteer to scribe?

   plh: i can take notes next week

   paulc: thanks plh

Adjournment

   paulc: meeting is adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Cotton 
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 11:07 AM
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Cc: Adrian Bateman; Kris Krueger; Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net)
Subject: HTML WG telecon 2012-12-06 - Actions, Document Status, Task Force reports, Mailing list

The HTML Working Group will have its usual weekly teleconference on 2012-12-06 for up to 60 minutes from 17:00Z to 18:00Z.

http://timeanddate.com/s/2acf

Tokyo 02:00+1, Amsterdam/Oslo 22:30, London/Dublin 09:00, New Jersey/York 12 noon, Kansas City 19:00, Seattle/San Francisco 09:00.

Chair of the meeting: Paul Cotton
Scribe:  Ade Bateman

(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)

== Agenda ==

1. ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6

a) ACTION-223: Figure out how extension specs can refer to HTML 5.1 [Paul Cotton]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223
Status: This ACTION was closed this week after discussion at the Media TF meeting.

2. New Issues This Week:
None

There are 6 tracker requests
http://w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=TrackerRequest

2. HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D

a) HTML5.1 and Canvas 2D first public working drafts
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html 
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.html
Status: The Editorial team is working on producing candidate first public working drafts that can be subject to a CfC for publication.

3.  HTML Microdata 

a) Candidate CR working draft
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/microdata/CR/Overview.html

b) Call for Rationale Statements
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0227.html
Manu's position against: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/0020.html 
Mike's position for: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20082#c4   
Status: Are we ready for a preference poll for advancement to CR?
 
3. Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents 

a) Candidate CR working draft
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-html-wg-minutes.html#item03 
Status: We still need exit criteria.  We are expecting the Editors to provide draft exit criteria with a candidate CR working draft.
Status: Last week Adrian offered to provide a statement in favour of CR advancement.

b) TAG position on Polyglot
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Nov/0047.html 
Status:  TAG is discussing their original position on the Polyglot requirements.

4.  HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives

a) Candidate CR working draft
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-html-wg-minutes.html#item03 
Status: We still need exit criteria.  We are expecting the Editors to provide draft exit criteria with a candidate CR working draft.

b) Normative status
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0231.html 

c) Relationship to "identified differences" in "plan 2014"
http://www.davidmacd.com/WCAG/WAI/buggy.html     
    
5. Main Element 

a) FPWD approved
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0232.html
Status: Steve F and Mike S are preparing the first public working draft for publication.

6.  ARIA in HTML 

a) Awaiting input from A11y TF
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0147.html 

7. Task Force Reports

a) Testing Task Force

b) Accessibility Task Force

c) Media Task Force

8. Other Business

a) Administrative mailing list nearly set up
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/
Next steps:  Change Bugzilla to send NEW bugs reports to new list.

b) Publishing Use Cases and <picture> document through HTMLWG
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0173.html

9. Scribe for next meeting

10. Adjournment

== Dial-in and IRC Details ==

Zakim teleconference bridge:
  +1.617.761.6200 code: HTML (4865)

Supplementary IRC chat (logged):
  #html-wg on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80


Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
Received on Thursday, 6 December 2012 18:06:22 UTC

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