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{minutes} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-29, WG decisions, issue review, WG surveys

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:25:41 +0000
To: "public-html-wg-announce@w3.org" <public-html-wg-announce@w3.org>
Message-ID: <E3EACD022300B94D88613639CF4E25F8086DB523@TK5EX14MBXC138.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
The minutes for the HTML WG weekly meeting are below and at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html



[W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>

- DRAFT -
HTML Weekly Teleconference
29 Jul 2010

Agenda<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0010.html>

Attendees
Present
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
rubys
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   ACTION items due by Thursday, July 22<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item01>
     *   New Issues This Week<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Working Group decisions<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item03>
     *   Items Closing This Week<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item04>
     *   Items Closing Next Week<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item05>
     *   Current WG Surveys<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item06>
     *   Misc items<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item07>
     *   TPAC registration and hotel reservation reminder<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item08>
     *   Other business<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item09>
     *   Scribe for next meeting<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item10>
     *   Adjournment<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#item11>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Try to once again clarify <article>'s definition a bit. (whatwg r5221) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0118.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10253] New: doesn't say anything except what the container type is, and even a type like <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0474.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Firefox/Gecko Delivery Meeting Minutes: 2010-07-28 <11http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/344> 4** ExtendOpera: Download html5 movies from youtube <11http://extendopera.org/css/content/download-html5-movies-youtube>

<pimpbot> planet: App Tabs in Firefox 4 Beta 2 <11http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2010/07/28/app-tabs-in-firefox-4-beta-2/>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10255] New: The earlier version where it said "If an address element applies to a section of a document, then it represents contact information for that section only" was a better approach. I see what you're after here, but it's way too 1996. "A web page" or "a docu <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0476.html> 4** [Bug 10254] New: Missing word in this sentence: "The contact information of node is the same a

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10254] Missing word in "The address element" section <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0478.html> 4** [Bug 10255] address element needs to apply more granularly <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0477.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10259] New: Make it clearer that <dt> can be used for questions and <dd> for answers (maybe move away from the terminology "name-value group"?) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0482.html> 4** [Bug 10258] New: Spec should be more careful about UTF-16, UTF-16BE and UTF-16LE <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0481.html> 4** [Bug 10257] New: Meta charset sniffing need to r

<hsivonen> MikeSmith: I made things so that it's relatively straight-forward to add error messages as tooltips to View Source

<hsivonen> not gonna happen for Firefox 4, though

<MikeSmith> will be nice to have it anyway

<hsivonen> I expects the string freeze for 4.0 to happen before I get to it

<MikeSmith> I ee

<MikeSmith> would it be possible to also eventually add it to the DOM inspector that Rob Campbell is working on?

<hsivonen> that would be harder, so "maybe"

<hsivonen> parse erroro are easie to do in View Source. Validation errors would be easier to do in a DOM insector

<MikeSmith> OK

<hsivonen> (my text input method sucks, so I'll be quiet now)

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10257] Meta charset sniffing need to resolve aliases before checking UTF-16ness <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0483.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Nicklas Larsson: The race for HTML 5 video <11http://my.opera.com/kilsmo/blog/show.dml/14734402>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10260] New: Meta charset handling during the parse should special-case UTF-16 and reject non-ASCII supersets <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0484.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10257] Meta charset sniffing need to resolve aliases before checking UTF-16ness <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0488.html> 4** [Bug 10256] 3.2.2 Elements in the DOM <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0487.html> 4** [Bug 10252] HTML5 hard-binds "Action" to accesskey key-press <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0486.html> 4** [Bug 1

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10257] Meta charset sniffing need to resolve aliases before checking UTF-16ness" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0489.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10262] New: autocomplete attribute seams to do more than it should. There should be a 'confidential' attribute that will do all that is mention here and autocomplete=off would only disable autocomplete, but let browsers remember the value for back button. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0490.html>

<paulc_> rubys: Are you going to be able to scribe?

still negotiating access to a phone, outlook looks good

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-29, WG decisions, issue review, WG surveys from Paul Cotton on 2010-07-27 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9897] need closing quote and /> for the very last p tag <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0492.html> 4** [Bug 10263] New: Should there be functions available to add and remove resources to/from the cache using JavaScript? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0491.html>

<paulc_> rubys: Can we get the requisiste bots invited?

trackbot already seems to be here

<paulc_> ok

<plh> trackbot-ng, start telcon

<trackbot> Date: 29 July 2010

<paulc_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0010.html

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-29, WG decisions, issue review, WG surveys from Paul Cotton on 2010-07-27 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<scribe> scribenick: rubys

<paulc_> Mike Smith appears to be having connectivity problems today.

<Mark> Mark from AT&T is on

<mjs> hi all
ACTION items due by Thursday, July 22

paulc: there are none

<J_Voracek> Good morning
New Issues This Week

paulc: I don't believe that there are any
Working Group decisions

issue-95?

<trackbot> ISSUE-95 -- Remove/Discard the Hidden Attribute -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/95

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-95 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-30?

<trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-88 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88

issue-96?

<trackbot> ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- open

issue-97?

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-97 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: it is taking longer than we thought, but we are moving through them one at a time
Items Closing This Week

issue-74?

<trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- How accessibility works for <canvas> is unclear. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-74 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-75?

<trackbot> ISSUE-75 -- Microsoft Review of HTML5 -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/75

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-75 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> Change proposal from Ian H: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0219.html

<pimpbot> Title: Change proposal for ISSUE-74 and ISSUE-105 from Ian Hickson on 2010-07-29 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: Ian submitted a counter proposal... will stay open until Friday.
... Ian has asked for clarifications (to the chairs). Rich has already responded. The chairs will watch.
... any comments?

<paulc_> Richard's reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0231.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: Change proposal for ISSUE-74 and ISSUE-105 from Richard Schwerdtfeger on 2010-07-29 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: the reply from Rich has an appropriate level of commentary and detail
Items Closing Next Week

paulc: none
Current WG Surveys

issue-4?

<trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-4 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-84?

<trackbot> ISSUE-84 -- Should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/84

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-84 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issues-4-84-objection-poll/

issue-101?

<trackbot> ISSUE-101 -- Spec reference for US-ASCII -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/101

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-101 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-101-objection-poll/

paulc: the surveys are still open; get your responses in as early as possible
... any comments?
Misc items

mjs: I've gone through most of the bugs, there are only 3 left, only one will require significant drafting
... we will probably have a new draft ready for discussion next week

paulc: the chairs will look at the draft next tuesday and get it into the WG hands as soon as possible after that
... next item, an update on issue-85

issue-85?

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> bug 10066?

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066 faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P1, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided

mjs: 10066 has a broader scope, and will likely become the successor to this issue
... I had a conversation with Cythia and Rich to help them give a more clear explanation and justification
... see bug 10066 for more details

paulc: the background is that we asked the editor to expedite this, and the editor asked for more information, and the chairs are attempting to seek to ensure that such data is available

issue-27?

<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0033.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: ACTION-182 and Issue-27 from Julian Reschke on 2010-07-14 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: we had been waiting, the registry is now available (see julian's note), the ball is now in our court
... haven't seen any responses yet
... what we need is for someone to test the registry, perhaps a formal call for volunteers is in order

<paulc_> informal call for volunteers in paul's email today: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0225.html

<pimpbot> Title: RE: ACTION-182 and Issue-27 from Paul Cotton on 2010-07-29 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc_> ACTION: paulc to ensure that someone in the WG is testing the new @rel registry setup by IANA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Ensure that someone in the WG is testing the new @rel registry setup by IANA [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-08-05].

paulc: the chairs will attempt to find a victim (if we can't find somebody already working it)
TPAC registration and hotel reservation reminder

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0206.html

<pimpbot> Title: [Reminder] - Registration for TPAC2010 and hotel reservations from Paul Cotton on 2010-07-27 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: just a heads up... a reminder that registration is required, and hotels are not blocked, so register early
Other business

paulc: hearing no other business....
Scribe for next meeting

paulc: any volunteers?

adrian will scribe
Adjournment

adjourned

<paulc_> adjounred at 12:21 ET

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: paulc to ensure that someone in the WG is testing the new @rel registry setup by IANA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]
________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.135 (CVS log<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2010/07/29 16:22:07 $
________________________________



Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada

17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3

Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329





-----Original Message-----
From: public-html-wg-announce-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-wg-announce-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cotton
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:17 PM
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-29, WG decisions, issue review, WG surveys



The HTML Working Group will have its usual weekly teleconference on

2010-07-29 for 60 minutes from 16:00Z to 17:00Z.



 http://timeanddate.com/s/1spd



Tokyo 01:00+1, Amsterdam/Oslo 18:00, London/Dublin 17:00, New

Jersey/York 12 noon, Kansas City 11:00, Seattle/San Francisco 09:00.



Chair of the meeting: Paul Cotton

Scribe: Sam Ruby



(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)



== Agenda ==



1. ACTION items due by Thursday, July 29

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda



None.



2. New Issues This Week:



None.



3. Working Group decisions



Note: The Chairs are working on decision on the following issues which were subject to WG surveys.



a) ISSUE-30: longdesc (survey closed Jun 30)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-30-objection-poll/results



b) ISSUE-88: content-language-multiple (survey closed Jun 30)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-88-objection-poll/results



c) ISSUE-96 progress (survey closed May 19)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-96-objection-poll/results



d) ISSUE-97 meter (survey closed May 19)

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-97-objection-poll/results



4. Items Closing This Week



a) ISSUE-74 canvas-accessibility - Call for Alternate Proposals closes July 30

http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-074



b) ISSUE-105 canvas-usemap - Call for Alternate Proposals closes July 30

http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-0105



5. Items Closing Next Week



None.



6. Current WG Surveys



a) ISSUE-4 html-versioning + ISSUE-84 legacy-doctypes

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issues-4-84-objection-poll/



b) ISSUE-101 us-ascii-ref

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-101-objection-poll/



7. Misc items



a) Decision Policy Update



b) Issue-27 update

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0033.html

Call for Volunteers to test registry?



c) Issue-85 update

http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-085



8. TPAC registration and hotel reservation reminder

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0206.html



"We remind you that no block booking has been made this year. We strongly

advise you to make hotel reservations as soon as possible, preferably

before the end of the summer period. You will find further information at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/11/TPAC/#Accommodation



9. Other business



10. Scribe for next meeting



Chair for next week: Sam Ruby

Scribe for next week: Volunteers?



11. Adjournment



== Dial-in and IRC Details ==



Zakim teleconference bridge

+1.617.761.6200, +33.4.26.46.79.03, +44.203.318.0479

code: HTML (4865)



Supplementary IRC chat (logged)

#html-wg on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80









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Received on Thursday, 29 July 2010 16:26:19 UTC

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