- From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 14:00:48 +0000
- To: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24647 Andrea Rendine <master.skywalker.88@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |master.skywalker.88@gmail.c | |om --- Comment #3 from Andrea Rendine <master.skywalker.88@gmail.com> --- (In reply to Robin Berjon from comment #1) >There is no useful way in which border can be considered semantic. Here's a way. Below I present 2 different tables. The first one can be reasonably considered a "layout table", not in the sense of paging table, but because it serves the same purpose of a <dl>. I chose a table because it is easier to represent name-value data this way, it's tidier and can also be copypasted and inserted in non-HTML document (e.g. personal database) without losing the relationship between the name field and the value field. It also allows different blocks of data. But it cannot be defined "tabular data" as the one I'll present later. <table> <tbody> <tr> <th>name</th> <td>John Doe</td> </tr> <tr> <th>region</th> <td>Georgia</td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody> <tr> <th>job</th> <td>research assistant</td> </tr> <tr> <th>Web reference</th> <td>www.JohnnyD.com</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Here I wouldn't even draw borders with CSS i think. Anyway I wouldn't need them in any browser, because the relationship is made clear by the bold-normal font weight contrast. Borders, as you said, mean nothing here. Now consider another example. Follow the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table , just as an example of a real data table. Here the grid is necessary. The authors not only convey the content of the table, they state a horizontal relationship (country) and a vertical relationship (medal class) for data. Without borders the table itself is not readable at all, and the meaning is lost. In other elements it is commonplace to rely on browsers' native support (see <details> and <meter> for some examples). But I don't think browsers will redefine their default rendering for tables, and this for 2 reasons. 1. Too many old-style pages will be presented useless borders. It would break background compatibility with a really widely used element 2. inserting borders is anyway arbitrary (see example 1). To say that a table MUST have rules is like saying that, as <details> is an element meant to design a disclosing widget, it is a UA decision that it must be undisclosed by default and authors are not meant to change it. The difference can also be made with @role, but I wouldn't define AT ALL example 1 "presentation". There is an attribute which servese this purpose, it has always been considered conforming, everything authors need is to have it changed from a "parsed-integer value" attribute to a "boolean" attribute, with almost perfect backward compatibility and legacy UAs compatibility. And it would greatly help authors define 2 different fallbacks (borders for data tables, border-less non-data tables) which can both have purposes in cases when stylesheets are not available. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the QA Contact for the bug.
Received on Thursday, 13 February 2014 14:00:50 UTC