- From: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 12:06:21 -0400
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4DCC057D.7050301@w3.org>
Minutes of the 12 May 2011 HTML Accessibility Task Force meeting are posted to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html and copied below. HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 12 May 2011 See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-irc> Attendees Present Michael_Cooper, JF, Janina_Sajka, Steve_Faulkner, Judy, MikeSmith, paulc, Marco_Ranon, Cynthia_Shelly, Eric, Rich_Schwerdtfeger Regrets Chair Janina_Sajka Scribe MichaelC Contents * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html#agenda> 1. Subteam Reports: Media; Canvas; Bug Triage <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html#item01> 2. Text Subteam Issues http://www.w3.org/2011/05/09-text-minutes.html <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02> 3. Next week <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03> * Summary of Action Items <http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-html-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2011 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon <janina> agenda: this <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List <janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/EnTitle <mranon> zackim, P7 is me <scribe> scribe: MichaelC <scribe> chair: Janina_Sajka jf: multitrack mostly wrapped up Subteam Reports: Media; Canvas; Bug Triage == media == discussion ongoing about text alternatives for video element js: request for stable URI for <missed> also need to work on navigational concerns == canvas == <nobody present> == bug triage == mr: bug triage processed pending tf decision bugs this week gave a few the a11ytf keyword, not many gave rationales for each no major highlights == ARIA mapping == cs: first discussion about HTML API map document just before this call lots of work to do have identified starter points js: that meets just before this call? cs: yes, for now js: need help? cs: yes splitting time between HTML API map, and ARIA API map js: good, looking to publish HTML implementation guide in June Text Subteam Issues http://www.w3.org/2011/05/09-text-minutes.html <judy> Text Alternatives Sub-Team -- recent meeting: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/09-text-minutes.html jb: 7-8 issues on the table <lists too fast to scribe> jf: re meta name = generator <JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name=generator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming leif has done a lot of work creating a change proposal in wiki still work to do <Stevef> rich will try to join later jb: expect work in near future? jf: yes, but more to do in wiki jb: role=presentation being dealt with by bugs cs: talked with Rich, think ok to allow null alt as equivalent to role=presentation concern about case in which there is non-null alt plus role=presentation author doesn't know what they're doing in this case talked with david singer <JF> +q since this doesn't truly break anything, think it's a validation warning / accessibility evaluation issue not a validator error jb: need to check support for this? ... over to Steve for title Leif making a case sf: he has made a change proposal, discussion going on jb: ready for discussion within tf? sf: yes jb: figcaption would like to take off urgent track recognize not everyone wants to do that, but many do cs: taking off urgent track is good jb: longdesc were looking for a stablized proposal from Laura kept getting additional suggestions want to do consensus check on proposal as it stands at the moment jb: poster alt jf: being discussed in media subteam alternative text for paused video same problem from different angle active discussion, strong divide in opinion there is [candidate?] formal objection to chair decision on poster alt not pursuing further at moment jb: table summary gregory working on, but out this week probably taking off urgent path jb: location of alt guidance clear disagreement with HTML WG decision probably will address on non-urgent basis jb: for today: 1) alt validation title 2) longdesc but first, bug support issue cs: role=presentation we meant not to impact alt requirements but after discussion we view as not a big deal do we need to push more? jf: if <img src=foo alt=important role=presentation> which wins? cs: role=presentation wins but it's author error from a validation perspective it's allowed might be a warning note validator doesn't know if alt is important changing requirements won't affect prevalence of this kind of error topic under discussion was expanding things could be given name, not restricting alt js: leif noted this could be used to hide ascii art cs: not sure ascii art in alt would work... can see cases where having both alt and role makes sense can't flag every case, if it makes sense sometimes so would have to look for non-null string, which makes validation quite complex therefore moves into warning territory jf: agree sounds like warning but important to capture the point js: proposal to file bug cs: having warning gives a hook jb: sounds like this is execution of action for CS and RS to discuss still needs to come back into text sub-team not consensus there yet, needs further discussion cs: worried about differing from WAI CG consensus document, because of perception of flip-flopping jb: need further conversation on that group yesterday considered new info Monday seemed pretty strong consensus on a proposal except for Leif jb: moving on to title cs: ok with either there <LeifHSilli> Just want to note the question I consider most important: Does e.g. @aria-labelledby=foo win over empty @alt=""? If empty @alt equals role=presentation, then empty @alt should win. However, ARIA says that aria-labelledby wins. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011May/0290 sf: Leif and I disagreed on what was meant by device independence <something about input devices> asked vendors, got inconclusive responses looked at Webkit, when @title and not(@alt) it falls back to title but title shouldn't be a repair mechanism, it should be a visible caption or at least available to all, not to some people some times <JF> +1 to Steve no requirement in HTML 5 that content be available in input device independent manner filed a bug a year ago was rejected <re needing mouse to display title> jb: questions? objections to supporting proposal? <janina> +1 <mranon> +1 <judy> please indicate in IRC who is supporting Steve's title proposal <janina> +1 <mranon> +1 <judy> +1 <JF> +1 to steves proposal rs: what are problems viewed with Leif's proposal? sf: about accessible name property in AAPIs <paulc> Where is Steve's proposal? Link please. <janina> Referenced in the agenda for today ... main diff from my proposal is that title used as fallback to alt rs: that's just webkit, right? <paulc> Title http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitle sf: don't want to promote that approach rs: clarification? sf: my proposal says title and alt should not be displayed in same way rs: title used specifically for tooltip on mouseover advisory text <JF> +q to this topic <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say ARIA pretty explicitly allows title as last resort http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#namecalculation mc: ARIA allows title as last resort sf: yes for accessible name but shouldn't impact graphical rendering jf: there's an issue of conventional behaviors vs specified behaviors lots of screen readers by default ignore title because of redundancy with alt in legacy content because back in the day @alt wasn't rendered to tooltip so authors put in both places jb: any change in support for Steve's proposal after this discussion? rs: support my understanding is Leif's is to have @title rendered when images turned off that's not something I support important to separate functionality of alt and title jb: proposing change? <JF> akc JF rs: supporting Steve's <Zakim> JF, you wanted to this topic <richardschwerdtfe> I support Steve Faulkner's proposal <richardschwerdtfe> on title pc: note Leif not here js: was on Monday, other discussions pc: proposal has a number of "new information" is there a companion rationale to reopen decision? <judy> Leif, do you at this point object to Steve's proposal on title? jb: embedded, think Sam's reviewed sf: rationale is that there is new info jb: pinging Leif, no response yet, but did discuss Monday that we'd look for consensus but not necessarily unanimity at moment think we have that suggest we declare TF consensus js: think we have that now were specific that the question would be called in this call <paulc> Title http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitle *RESOLUTION: Task Force supports Steve's reopened request and change proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitle and recommends that it be forwarded to the HTML WG* jb: moving back to longdesc pc: trying to understand goal at the moment current proposal being constantly updated <paulc> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/InstateLongdesc updated on may 12 <judy> ===== longdesc ===== <judy> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/InstateLongdesc change proposals not necessarily expected to be static it's before the WG now <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-030 chairs track these things at above link jb: we've requested Laura to stabilize this she asked for consensus, got additional suggestions, so has continued to change so put on agenda here to measure support from task force who supports Laura's proposal as is right now? <JF> +q no responses, is the issue that it's still changing? jf: conditionally I support, but need to finish fine-tuning want to see final version same <JF> +1 to Rich's comments think we're arriving at something that adds value to all users jb: sounds like we can't call question on TF support until it stabilizes to PC, what is process expectation? pc: Sam & I will be at AC meeting next week, but both on travel so jetlag... hope to respond within 3-4 days to reopen requests, but difficult next week will enter our queue jb: that's just regarding making decision whether or not to reopen? pc: yes though we have already started discussing this and have meeting next Tuesday morning CEST <JF> bye all <MikeSmith> yep <MikeSmith> wi <MikeSmith> will be Next week Mike to chair, Steve to scribe trackbot, end meeting Summary of Action Items [End of minutes] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.136 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>) $Date: 2011/05/12 16:05:32 $ -- Michael Cooper Web Accessibility Specialist World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative E-mail cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org> Information Page <http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/>
Received on Thursday, 12 May 2011 16:08:59 UTC