- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:15:02 +0200
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
I'm OK with chair's WG Decision on aria-labelledby and role=presentation, and don't see need to press for reopening. Agree with what Steve said on subgroup meeting today: >> SF: role="presentation" is in a11y layer; alt="" will be represented >> differently in view where images disabled -- if role="presentation" >> won't treat same way -- need to treat null alt as role="presentation" When I read the starter draft letter however, (http://www.w3.org/mid/E1QEO8R-0006yO-C2@lisa.w3.org) it prompted me to write this: Re: "The presence of role=presentation does not make missing alt conforming." My reading: * role=presentation doesn't permit author to not omit a (supposedly) empty @alt * does not (need to) mean that role=presentation in combination with non-empty alt is forbidden. Which is OK - because the alt text could be decorative - or perhaps the alt text will be used as a label by some element that links to the image via aria-labelledby. Important: * HTML5 encourage browsers to repair for lack of @alt - and typically they use "Image." as repair text. Thus what is suggested in the starter drarft letter means that browser will add "Image." for non-AT users = not good. * Thus Richard's statement in today's sub group minutes is not something I can subscribe too: ]] @alt with role="presentation" eliminates need for alt="" [[ Clearly he is right, if we see it squarely from the POV of a ARIA enabled AT user. I do support the view that it is good to encourage to use of role=presentation, though. But it doesn't need a carrot in the form of "you can drop the empty alt when role=presentation is present." Re: 'The presence of aria-labelledby does not make missing alt conforming.' * Seemed like the sub group decided to drop its disagreement. Nevertheless, I'll state this: Important issues: * For aria-labelledby, it is the same issue for role=presentation: omitting @alt will make non-AT repair for the lack of @alt. HTML5 says that one should not rely on the repair that browsers perform for the lack of @alt. To not do alt repair when aria-labelledby is present, is not an option: the sighted needs to know that there is an image there - after all, the AT user is told that there is an image, and so should the sighted user who uses the Yahoo e-mail service with image display off. * Note also that even if at least VoiceOver doesn't support it, the ARIA 1.0 spec still says that if aria-labelledby is present, then @alt should not be presented to the AT user unless @aria-labelledby also includes the img element itself: ]] User agents give precedence to aria-labelledby over aria-label when computing the accessible name property.[[ http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#aria-labelledby and ]] The aria-labelledby attribute takes precedence as the element's text alternative [ snip ] However, the element's aria-labelledby attribute can reference the element's own IDREF in order to concatentate a string provided by the element's aria-label attribute or another feature lower in this preference list.[[ http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#namecalculation (And @alt is lower on the feature list.) * Thus, from a AT point of view, the use of aria-labelledby should hide the alt text. * What perhaps is needed is authoring advice for images with @aria-labelledby: perhaps the author can get away with a really one word alt text such as "photo" or something like that. -- Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Tuesday, 26 April 2011 01:15:32 UTC