- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:15:02 +0200
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
I'm OK with chair's WG Decision on aria-labelledby and
role=presentation, and don't see need to press for reopening. Agree
with what Steve said on subgroup meeting today:
>> SF: role="presentation" is in a11y layer; alt="" will be represented
>> differently in view where images disabled -- if role="presentation"
>> won't treat same way -- need to treat null alt as role="presentation"
When I read the starter draft letter however,
(http://www.w3.org/mid/E1QEO8R-0006yO-C2@lisa.w3.org) it prompted me to
write this:
Re: "The presence of role=presentation does not make missing alt
conforming."
My reading:
* role=presentation doesn't permit author to not omit a
(supposedly) empty @alt
* does not (need to) mean that role=presentation in combination
with non-empty alt is forbidden. Which is OK - because the
alt text could be decorative - or perhaps the alt text
will be used as a label by some element that links to the
image via aria-labelledby.
Important:
* HTML5 encourage browsers to repair for lack of @alt - and
typically they use "Image." as repair text. Thus what is
suggested in the starter drarft letter means that browser
will add "Image." for non-AT users = not good.
* Thus Richard's statement in today's sub group minutes is not
something I can subscribe too:
]] @alt with role="presentation" eliminates need for alt="" [[
Clearly he is right, if we see it squarely from the POV of
a ARIA enabled AT user. I do support the view that it is
good to encourage to use of role=presentation, though.
But it doesn't need a carrot in the form of "you can drop
the empty alt when role=presentation is present."
Re: 'The presence of aria-labelledby does not make missing alt
conforming.'
* Seemed like the sub group decided to drop its disagreement.
Nevertheless, I'll state this:
Important issues:
* For aria-labelledby, it is the same issue for role=presentation:
omitting @alt will make non-AT repair for the lack of @alt. HTML5 says
that one should not rely on the repair that browsers perform for the
lack of @alt. To not do alt repair when aria-labelledby is present, is
not an option: the sighted needs to know that there is an image there -
after all, the AT user is told that there is an image, and so should
the sighted user who uses the Yahoo e-mail service with image display
off.
* Note also that even if at least VoiceOver doesn't support it, the
ARIA 1.0 spec still says that if aria-labelledby is present, then @alt
should not be presented to the AT user unless @aria-labelledby also
includes the img element itself:
]] User agents give precedence to aria-labelledby over
aria-label when computing the accessible name property.[[
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#aria-labelledby
and
]] The aria-labelledby attribute takes precedence as the
element's text alternative [ snip ] However, the element's
aria-labelledby attribute can reference the element's own
IDREF in order to concatentate a string provided by the
element's aria-label attribute or another feature lower in
this preference list.[[
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#namecalculation
(And @alt is lower on the feature list.)
* Thus, from a AT point of view, the use of aria-labelledby should
hide the alt text.
* What perhaps is needed is authoring advice for images with
@aria-labelledby: perhaps the author can get away with a really one
word alt text such as "photo" or something like that.
--
Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Tuesday, 26 April 2011 01:15:32 UTC