- From: John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>
- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:51:29 -0800 (PST)
- To: "'Sam Ruby'" <rubys@intertwingly.net>, "'Gregory J. Rosmaita'" <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Cc: <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, <janina@rednote.net>, <mike@w3.org>, <mjs@apple.com>
Sam Ruby wrote: > > Revisiting this Issue > > This issue can be reopened if new information come up. Examples of > possible relevant new information include: > > * use cases that specifically require longdesc, > * evidence that correct usage is growing rapidly and that that > growth is expected to continue, or > * widespread interoperable implementation. > > I believe that Laura is collecting this information. The advice that > both I and Maciej gave in September on this topic is still relevant > today: > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0495.html > > - Sam Ruby Sam, On August 12th, I wrote to the Chairs and asked for clarification on these three points (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0045.html, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0047.html) without getting much of a quantitive response back. The questions are/were: > * use cases that specifically require longdesc, 1) How many use cases are required? Sam, your response then was: "The assumption of metrics was something you inferred. My suggestion on the way forward is to start with a single step. Such as a widespread implementation. I've heard second hand that Oracle is such a user. If they could be encouraged to present their use case directly, and preferably with samples of web pages (sanitized snapshots would be fine if we are talking about intranet applications), then the members of the working group can discuss whether the pros and cons of that usage." - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0054.html That proof has been collected and submitted: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention#Examples_with_Redundant_Link_Text Does this meet your criteria for use-cases "that specifically require longdesc"? If not, why not? (It must certainly meet the first-step recommendation of gathering and sharing the Oracle data) > * evidence that correct usage is growing rapidly and that that > growth is expected to continue, 2) Define "rapid", define "growth" in the context of satisfying this requirement. * Since the decision of August, a plug-in for WordPress was developed to allow authors to insert longdesc (2010-9-26 http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/tags/longdesc). * Drupal 7 will be officially released December 7th with support for authoring and storing longdesc data in that CMS: "Has been added to D7, no plans to backport for now." http://drupal.org/node/801584 http://drupal7releasedate.com/ Does this meet your criteria for both "rapid" and "growth"? If not, why not? > * widespread interoperable implementation. 3) Define "widespread" This has always been the fox in the hen-house, as for the most part the GUI-based browser vendors have shown little appetite (or outright refusal) in doing anything for "all their users". However, since HTML is DOM based, should an author use the longdesc attribute today, that attribute and its value *are* in the DOM, and thus can be accessed by any user-agent that chooses to do so. An incomplete list of *user-agents* that do something useful with @longdesc today include: * JAWS Version 4.01 and up - http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws401newfea.asp * LookOUT in combination with WebbIE. - http://www.screenreader.co.uk/ * Sense Reader Professional Edition v1.1.0.6 (Korean Screen Reader) - http://www.haeppa.kr/?page=10 * SuperNova/Hal - http://www.yourdolphin.com/ * Thunder in combination with WebbIE. - http://www.screenreader.co.uk/product.php?shopprodid=1 * Window-Eyes - http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/index.html?19_10longdesc.htm Does this meet your criteria for "widespread"? If not, why not? All of the afore mentioned Assistive Technology informs users that an image has a long description, at which point the user has the *option* of reading the description or skipping it. (Emphasis on the OPTION part, as this unique feature also feeds back to the question of use-case: proposed solutions such as aria-describedby currently does not allow for the toggling of 'proceed or skip', and was never designed to do so) Since all of these tools essentially perform the same function when encountering @longdesc, does this meet your criteria for "interoperable"? If not, why not? I continue to ask these questions, as I wish to ensure that I "...Make every effort to ensure that this information is complete before doing so, as it will have the effect of raising the bar as to what constitutes new information in the event that it turns out to be incomplete." JF "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." - Winston Churchill
Received on Tuesday, 30 November 2010 23:52:08 UTC