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ARIA Mappings Minutes for Tuesday 17 August

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:47:18 -0400
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100817204718.GR11940@sonata.rednote.net>
Minutes from the ARIA Mappings teleconference are provided below in
text. These are also available as HTML at:


                                                           - DRAFT -


17 Aug 2010

   See also: IRC log


          Janina, [Microsoft], Rich




     * Topics
     * Summary of Action Items

   <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/altspecification

   <scribe> scribe: janina

   sf: We need change proposal review by Rich and Cynthia, then
   ... there are a few sections that need completion following a discussion among us.
   ... Let's start with updated spec doc -- Made mapping changes from notes and memory -- Are they OK?
   ... Tried to include everything that had been cited as ommited.

   cs: What about merging the tables?

   sf: First table supposed to semantics not overwritable

   cs: Seems if we had one big table, it would meet Maciej's complaint that he couldn't find something.

   <Stevef> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html

   <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5

   sf: looking at <aname= -- without an href -- why a restriction?
   ... Also added caption. Doesn't seem it should be restricted

   cs: Text from caption might go into the name, and we should have ARIA on it because someone could make it clickable.

   sf: put norole for area because it's not rendered

   cs: area without rhref valid?

   sf: no

   cs: what if tabindex?

   sf: don't know

   cs: We should treat like span anything without a reason why it shouldn't be overwritten

   rs: Chaas wants to map area on top of canvas, so why not treat like a div?
   ... Is it overwritable?

   <Stevef> If the area element has no href attribute, then the area represented by the element cannot be selected, and
   the alt attribute must be omitted.

   sf: No, because not rendered and has no href

   cs: So how is an area without href conformant?
   ... Can live with either way.
   ... Prefer default to everything allowed.

   rs: Agree
   ... If applied to canvas, will need aria role

   sf: OK.
   ... Put in "elements without restrictions?"

   cs: yes

   rs: yes

   sf: So do we agree to a single table?

   cs: Yes, will be easier to read.

   rs: Yes, as long as it's clear what applies where.

   sf: Looking now at hgroup ...
   ... Overides? Which?

   cs: Anything. It's a span
   ... My default answer, I suspect.

   sf: But then we need to say why.

   cs: Unless there's a good reason to limit, don't limit.

   sf: th element, no column or row header
   ... Is it inconsistent with our table guidance?

   cs: But people repurpose them.

   sf: difference between changed and additional semantics.
   ... This is a clearly defined a11y element to provide info about data tables

   cs: existed before html had a11y ...

   sf: But when it's overwritten then you no longer provide a11y info about the table

   cs: But then what do you do when someone puts a onclick on th--which is common, to sort for instance
   ... I could wish aria were additive and not substitutional ...

   sf: Concerned we shouldn't allow overwrite to turn th into a button, for instance

   cs: but that's what people do

   sf: OK, will go with the group consensus, but I can't defend it.
   ... So, what can they be overwritten with?

   rs: We don't prohibit now, right?

   [Steve not happy with this ...]

   sf: Most of this has been stable for months ... but now we're saying something different

   rs: We said we're reviewing the whole thing

   sf: the parts that are changed

   cs: Think sf wants help on recent changes ...

   sf: So what role allowed on table?

   cs: widgets and presentation, not para

   sf: But that's what I have!

   rs: Take from the other direction, what roles should it not support?

   cs: We need to be consistent in our logic.

   sf: By that token we should treat href and all struct the same ...

   rs: yes

   cs: If we can come up with a rule for these -- It's the one-off's that will get us turned down

   <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5

   sf: So, we're talking about incorrect html use, is it better with aria addition, or not?
   ... So, we're talking about incorrect html use, is it better with aria addition, or not?[group going through items]
   ... People, please review the entire proposal and provide comments, changes, additions ...

   cs: Can I send you a word doc?

   sf: yes
   ... We didn't finish, so will need another meeting.
   ... Don't know what to do with hgroup ...

   cs: Heading, and refs inside presentation

   sf: so now this is new

   cs: There are two things here, logically it should function like a heading

   sf: But new elements have a history of being misused, so it could be argued we should support best practice.

   cs: If aria2 allows us to be additive, we will need to make sure we can add that to HTML5.

   sf: Cynthia, can provide feedback?

   cs: yes

   rs: Yes, but not tonight

   rrsagent make log public

   rrsagent make minutes

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Tuesday, 17 August 2010 20:47:49 UTC

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