- From: Bill Kasdorf <bill.kasdorf@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:56:38 -0400
- To: Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>
- Cc: "'Johnson, Rick'" <Rick.Johnson@vitalsource.com>, "'Reid, Wendy'" <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, 'MURATA' <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>, 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org
+1 to moving this to the CG. We don't want to lose it, or other conversations like it Like Rick, I've found this conversation to be very interesting. I'd like to know much more about PDF accessibility, particularly because of my ongoing work with the FRAME project and EMMA. DSOs (Disability Services Offices) get tons of demand for accessible PDFs from students.--Bill On 2023-04-19 12:50, Avneesh Singh wrote: > Rick Johnson wrote: > > “Perhaps a thread in the community group?” > > The community group is format independent. So, it is good to avoid > this discussion in EPUB 3 WG and use Publishing CG. > > At the same time, I would recommend Leonard to compile all these > accessibility features of PDF in a webpage and point the community to > it. It would be very helpful for the accessibility community. If such > a webpage already exists, then please point us to it. > > Thanks > > Avneesh > > From: Johnson, Rick <Rick.Johnson@vitalsource.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 22:14 > To: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>; MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>; > Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > Cc: public-epub-wg@w3.org > Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 > > While I understand keeping the working group focus, I personally have > found these type of conversations illuminating and informative (and > having the depth of knowledge Leonard has available to us is > invaluable!). I believe it is good for those of us who understand (or > try to!) the details of EPUB to also understand their corollary in the > PDF world, especially if we bring both formats to the marketplace. > > Perhaps a thread in the community group? > > Rick Johnson | Co-Founder and Vice President of Product Strategy and > Accessibility > > VitalSource Technologies, LLC > > get.vitalsource.com [1] > > From: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> > Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:37 AM > To: MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > Cc: public-epub-wg@w3.org <public-epub-wg@w3.org> > Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 > > Hi all, > > I know accuracy is important but just a kindly reminder that this is > the EPUB working group and we don’t need to litigate the finer > technical points of PDF in our mailing list. If you need to discuss > PDF please take it off-list. > > Let’s stay on topic please. > > Cheers, > > Wendy > > From: MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com> > Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:59 AM > To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > Cc: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org > <public-epub-wg@w3.org> > Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 > > [EXTERNAL] This message comes from an external organization. > > Leonard, > > I know that Japanese users are annoyed since > > most PDF readers (including those from Adobe) > > read aloud the ruby line before the line containing > > base characters. I also know that at least two > > companies write software for guessing the > > relationship between ruby and base characters > > (without using PDF ruby tags) so that they can > > create reasonable DAISY textbooks, which > > represents the relationship between ruby annotations > > and base characters. If PDF tags for ruby > > are correctly used, these problems should > > not happen. > > Do most PDF documents lack PDF tags for > ruby? Or, are developers unaware of them? > > I do not know. But when JIS X 8341-3:2016 > > is revised in the future, I will raise this issue > > and make sure that it will strongly discourage > > the use of those PDF generators which do not > > create PDF tags for ruby. > > Regards, > > Makoto > > 2023年4月19日(水) 21:44 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>: > >> From Adobe – Acrobat, InDesign and FrameMaker. >> >> The PDF Association has also been working with the leading TeX >> providers to ensure full tagging support including Math and CJK. >> >> I am sure there are other vendors that do it, but I can’t speak to >> which ones. >> >> Leonard >> >> From: MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com> >> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 7:23 PM >> To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Cc: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 >> >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> >> Leonard, >> >> Thanks. I did not know that. >> >> But who embeds that tag? Does Acrobat do so? >> >> Regards, >> >> Makoto >> >> 2023年4月19日(水) 2:09 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>: >> >> That is incorrect Murata-san. >> >> There is an entire section of ISO 32000 (the PDF standard) called >> “Ruby and warichu elements” (14.8.4.7.3) that discusses how to >> properly tag these elements in a PDF. >> >> Leonard >> >> From: MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com> >> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 11:22 AM >> To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Cc: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 >> >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> >> PDF tags do nothing about ruby. In PDF documents, >> >> ruby is just another line containing tiny characters. As >> >> a result, the accessibility of PDF documents containing >> >> ruby is very poor. >> >> Regards, >> >> Makoto >> >> 2023年4月18日(火) 23:14 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>: >> >> IN the transcript, I find: >> >>> Gregorio: PDF tags is very limited. similar experience with PDFs >> and FXL. >> >> PDF tags are *much more flexible* than (X)HTML tags, because they >> are (a) extensible and (b) namespaced. >> >> Gregorio – can you give some insight into your statement? >> >> Leonard >> >> From: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 10:04 AM >> To: public-epub-wg@w3.org <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023 >> >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> >> Hi all, >> >> Here are the minutes from today’s meeting: >> https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-epub-fxl-minutes.html >> >> Thanks, >> >> Wendy >> >> -- >> >> -- >> >> 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授 >> >> 村田 真 > > -- > > -- > > 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授 > > 村田 真 > > -- > > -- > > 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授 > > 村田 真 > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://get.vitalsource.com/
Received on Wednesday, 19 April 2023 16:56:43 UTC