Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023

Leonard,

I know that Japanese users are annoyed since
most PDF readers (including those from Adobe)
read aloud the ruby line before the line containing
base characters.  I also know that at least two
companies write software for guessing the
relationship between ruby and base characters
(without using PDF ruby tags) so that they can
create reasonable DAISY textbooks, which
represents the relationship between ruby annotations
and base characters.  If PDF tags for ruby
are correctly used, these problems should
not happen.

Do most PDF documents lack PDF tags for
ruby?  Or, are developers unaware of them?
I do not know.  But when JIS X 8341-3:2016
is revised in the future, I will raise this issue
and make sure that it will strongly discourage
the use of those PDF generators which do not
create PDF tags for ruby.

Regards,
Makoto

2023年4月19日(水) 21:44 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>:

> From Adobe – Acrobat, InDesign and FrameMaker.
>
>
>
> The PDF Association has also been working with the leading TeX providers
> to ensure full tagging support including Math and CJK.
>
>
>
> I am sure there are other vendors that do it, but I can’t speak to which
> ones.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 7:23 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc: *Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org <
> public-epub-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023
>
> *EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.*
>
>
>
> Leonard,
>
>
>
> Thanks.  I did not know that.
>
>
>
> But who embeds that tag?  Does Acrobat do so?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Makoto
>
>
>
> 2023年4月19日(水) 2:09 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>:
>
> That is incorrect Murata-san.
>
>
>
> There is an entire section of ISO 32000 (the PDF standard) called “Ruby
> and warichu elements” (14.8.4.7.3) that discusses how to properly tag these
> elements in a PDF.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 11:22 AM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc: *Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org <
> public-epub-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023
>
> *EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.*
>
>
>
> PDF tags do nothing about ruby.  In PDF documents,
>
> ruby is just another line containing tiny characters.  As
>
> a result, the accessibility of PDF documents containing
>
> ruby is very poor.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Makoto
>
>
>
> 2023年4月18日(火) 23:14 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>:
>
> IN the transcript, I find:
>
>
>
> >*Gregorio:* PDF tags is very limited. similar experience with PDFs and
> FXL.
>
>
>
> PDF tags are **much more flexible** than (X)HTML tags, because they are
> (a) extensible and (b) namespaced.
>
>
>
> Gregorio – can you give some insight into your statement?
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 10:04 AM
> *To: *public-epub-wg@w3.org <public-epub-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *[FXLA11Y] Minutes - 18 April 2023
>
> *EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.*
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Here are the minutes from today’s meeting:
> https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-epub-fxl-minutes.html
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wendy
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>  --
>
> 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授
>
> 村田 真
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>  --
>
> 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授
>
> 村田 真
>


-- 
 --
慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授
村田 真