- From: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:12:23 +0000
- To: Stuart Sutton <stuartasutton@gmail.com>
- Cc: Bob Dolan <bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com>, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>, public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAD47Kz62t3a31muVa8-QjqyTXSGgN5TY0BvpEq0dLJ+U167zGw@mail.gmail.com>
Stuart, I wasn’t saying that *EducationalOccupationalCredential* should not be a subtype of CreativeWork. I was just highlighting that it is a proposal we can expect to have to justify to the rest of the Schema.org community who would probably have a much narrower understanding of what a *EducationalOccupationalCredential* is. As to your questions, about the justifications for other subtypes. Firstly, I would say that consensus in the community has evolved over time, as has the significant number of CreativeWork subtypes (it’s looking a bit messy in that area of the type hierarchy). Personally I would suggest that all the Types you list are the outcome of individual, or a series of, creative actions. ~Richard. Richard Wallis Founder, Data Liberate http://dataliberate.com Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis Twitter: @rjw On 9 January 2018 at 22:41, Stuart Sutton <stuartasutton@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Richard Wallis < > richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote: > >> In principle creating an *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial* type >> and making it a subtype of *CreativeWork* make sense to me. This is a >> good start. However the following practical thoughts come to mind: >> >> - Just looking at the name *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial* >> makes me think that it should have a basic super-type of *Credential* that >> is not tied to the Educational / Occupational domains. I can already >> anticipate the questions about marking up some form of general >> qualification, measure of achievement, recognised membership level, or >> attendance, that the developer does not consider either educational or >> occupational. >> >> - In practice “*properties like educationalAlignment, audience, >> offers, provider, hasPart, datePublished, dateModified, expires, creator >> (and possibly others) will be useful in describing >> EducationalOccupationalCredentials.*” Is not sufficient reason on its >> own for minting yet another subtype of CreativeWork. Do we believe such a >> thing is a type of Creative Work? >> >> Richard, I think that if *Course* can be a *CreativeWork*, a case can be > made for* EducationalOccupationalCredential* being one. They are > undeniably 'works' that require at least a 'modicum of creativity'. > > If we look at the class extension (subtypes) of *CreativeWork > <http://schema.org/CreativeWork>*, there are no apparent controlling > attributes that I can see to guide what should be in (or out). So, > arguments that *EducationalOccupationalCredential* "is" or "isn't" are > probably equally rudderless. But, if the following subtypes passed muster > as *CreativeWorks*, I wish someone would fill me in on the common > characteristics of the class that made it possible: > > - Comment > - Question > - Menu > - Message > - Dataset > > >> - >> I had a recent proposal for a new subtype of CreativeWork, using >> similar justification, knocked back in the Schema.org Github in this way: >> >> “ *No, we really can* >> *’t make TouristTrip a subclass of CreativeWork … that * >> *would be way way too much of a hack. * *Lets add more domain/ranges to >> the relevant properties.”* >> >> >> I am not saying we would get the same response but we need good >> justification for such a proposal. >> >> >> >> ~Richard. >> >> Richard Wallis >> Founder, Data Liberate >> http://dataliberate.com >> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis >> Twitter: @rjw >> >> On 9 January 2018 at 10:15, Bob Dolan <bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Listing the requirements for each use case is very helpful. Using >>> schema.org/CreativeWork makes sense to me. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> *Bob Dolan, Ph.D. | Principal* >>> bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com >>> www.diverselearnersconsulting.com >>> 413.367.6199 <(413)%20367-6199> >>> >>> [image: Diverse Learners Consulting logo] >>> <http://www.diverselearnersconsulting.com> >>> >>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Ryan, yes hooking into an existing schema.org type can minimize >>> the number of new properties that are required. Don't worry about Course >>> having an educationalCredentialAwarded property being a distraction: I >>> think that we will be connecting to that when we get further down the list >>> of use cases. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> On 08/01/18 20:50, Ryan Price wrote: >>> >>> I think this makes a lot of sense, to extend CreativeWork. >>> >>> For example, when CreativeWork is extended to Course, you only add 4 >>> properties: >>> https://schema.org/Course >>> >>> courseCode >>> coursePrerequisites >>> educationalCredentialAwarded (oops, maybe I picked a bad example, since >>> this mentions Credential. Don’t get distracted by this property!) >>> hasCourseInstance >>> >>> ++ >>> >>> Ryan Price >>> Senior Engineer >>> >>> Palantir.net <http://palantir.net/> >>> (773) 645-4100 >>> price@palantir.net >>> >>> Sign up for occasional emails: http://www.palantir.net/newsletter >>> <http://www.palantir.net/newsletter> >>> Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/palantir >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Thank you for your input prioritising the use cases for Educational and >>> Occupational Credentials. I have arranged to outline use cases >>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases> to reflect >>> these priorities. >>> >>> I have also indicated what I think is required in order to meet these >>> use cases. Please take a look and let me know if I have missed anything. >>> >>> I propose we work through these requirements, trying to meet as many of >>> them as possible with existing schema.org terms, and defining new terms >>> where required. >>> >>> Picking two requirements from near the top of the list, we need to >>> >>> 1. be able to identify that an object is a educational / occupational >>> credential >>> >>> 2. be able to identify name of an educational / occupational credential >>> object >>> >>> I propose that we create a new schema.org class / type of thing, an >>> EducationalOccupationalCredential >>> >>> definition: An educational or occupational credential. A diploma, >>> academic degree, certification, qualification, badge, etc., that may be >>> awarded to a person or other entity that meets the requirements defined by >>> the credentialer. >>> >>> This will inherit the URL and name properties from schema.org/Thing >>> thus meeting the requirements above. >>> >>> Furthermore, I think that it is logical and will allow reuse of several >>> properties if we consider the EducationalOccupationalCredential to be a >>> subtype of schema.org/CreativeWork. I think properties like >>> educationalAlignment, audience, offers, provider, hasPart, datePublished, >>> dateModified, expires, creator (and possibly others) will be useful in >>> describing EducationalOccupationalCredentials. >>> >>> Any comments? >>> >>> Phil. >>> >>> >>> [outline use cases] https://www.w3.org/community/e >>> ocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases >>> -- >>> >>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil >>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk/>: technology to enhance learning; >>> information systems for education. >>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education >>> technology. >>> >>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, >>> number SC569282. >>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in >>> England number OC399090 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil >>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk/>: technology to enhance learning; >>> information systems for education. >>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education >>> technology. >>> >>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, >>> number SC569282. >>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in >>> England number OC399090 >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Stuart A. Sutton, Metadata Consultant > Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Washington > Information School > Email: stuartasutton@gmail.com > Skype: sasutton > > >
Received on Wednesday, 10 January 2018 16:19:58 UTC