- From: Stuart Sutton <stuartasutton@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:41:43 -0800
- To: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
- Cc: Bob Dolan <bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com>, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>, public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CACetQ6FbQG5oms8brwaf9D_=ome3MAqks4wgvY6dhjfqyuirRg@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate. com> wrote: > In principle creating an *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial* type > and making it a subtype of *CreativeWork* make sense to me. This is a > good start. However the following practical thoughts come to mind: > > - Just looking at the name *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial* makes > me think that it should have a basic super-type of *Credential* that > is not tied to the Educational / Occupational domains. I can already > anticipate the questions about marking up some form of general > qualification, measure of achievement, recognised membership level, or > attendance, that the developer does not consider either educational or > occupational. > > - In practice “*properties like educationalAlignment, audience, > offers, provider, hasPart, datePublished, dateModified, expires, creator > (and possibly others) will be useful in describing > EducationalOccupationalCredentials.*” Is not sufficient reason on its > own for minting yet another subtype of CreativeWork. Do we believe such a > thing is a type of Creative Work? > > Richard, I think that if *Course* can be a *CreativeWork*, a case can be made for* EducationalOccupationalCredential* being one. They are undeniably 'works' that require at least a 'modicum of creativity'. If we look at the class extension (subtypes) of *CreativeWork <http://schema.org/CreativeWork>*, there are no apparent controlling attributes that I can see to guide what should be in (or out). So, arguments that *EducationalOccupationalCredential* "is" or "isn't" are probably equally rudderless. But, if the following subtypes passed muster as *CreativeWorks*, I wish someone would fill me in on the common characteristics of the class that made it possible: - Comment - Question - Menu - Message - Dataset > - > I had a recent proposal for a new subtype of CreativeWork, using > similar justification, knocked back in the Schema.org Github in this way: > > “ *No, we really can* > *’t make TouristTrip a subclass of CreativeWork … that * > *would be way way too much of a hack. * *Lets add more domain/ranges to > the relevant properties.”* > > > I am not saying we would get the same response but we need good > justification for such a proposal. > > > > ~Richard. > > Richard Wallis > Founder, Data Liberate > http://dataliberate.com > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis > Twitter: @rjw > > On 9 January 2018 at 10:15, Bob Dolan <bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com> > wrote: > >> Listing the requirements for each use case is very helpful. Using >> schema.org/CreativeWork makes sense to me. >> >> Bob >> >> *Bob Dolan, Ph.D. | Principal* >> bob@diverselearnersconsulting.com >> www.diverselearnersconsulting.com >> 413.367.6199 <(413)%20367-6199> >> >> [image: Diverse Learners Consulting logo] >> <http://www.diverselearnersconsulting.com> >> >> On Jan 9, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote: >> >> Thanks Ryan, yes hooking into an existing schema.org type can minimize >> the number of new properties that are required. Don't worry about Course >> having an educationalCredentialAwarded property being a distraction: I >> think that we will be connecting to that when we get further down the list >> of use cases. >> >> Phil >> >> On 08/01/18 20:50, Ryan Price wrote: >> >> I think this makes a lot of sense, to extend CreativeWork. >> >> For example, when CreativeWork is extended to Course, you only add 4 >> properties: >> https://schema.org/Course >> >> courseCode >> coursePrerequisites >> educationalCredentialAwarded (oops, maybe I picked a bad example, since >> this mentions Credential. Don’t get distracted by this property!) >> hasCourseInstance >> >> ++ >> >> Ryan Price >> Senior Engineer >> >> Palantir.net <http://palantir.net/> >> (773) 645-4100 >> price@palantir.net >> >> Sign up for occasional emails: http://www.palantir.net/newsletter >> <http://www.palantir.net/newsletter> >> Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/palantir >> >> On Jan 8, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Thank you for your input prioritising the use cases for Educational and >> Occupational Credentials. I have arranged to outline use cases >> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases> to reflect >> these priorities. >> >> I have also indicated what I think is required in order to meet these use >> cases. Please take a look and let me know if I have missed anything. >> >> I propose we work through these requirements, trying to meet as many of >> them as possible with existing schema.org terms, and defining new terms >> where required. >> >> Picking two requirements from near the top of the list, we need to >> >> 1. be able to identify that an object is a educational / occupational >> credential >> >> 2. be able to identify name of an educational / occupational credential >> object >> >> I propose that we create a new schema.org class / type of thing, an >> EducationalOccupationalCredential >> >> definition: An educational or occupational credential. A diploma, >> academic degree, certification, qualification, badge, etc., that may be >> awarded to a person or other entity that meets the requirements defined by >> the credentialer. >> >> This will inherit the URL and name properties from schema.org/Thing thus >> meeting the requirements above. >> >> Furthermore, I think that it is logical and will allow reuse of several >> properties if we consider the EducationalOccupationalCredential to be a >> subtype of schema.org/CreativeWork. I think properties like >> educationalAlignment, audience, offers, provider, hasPart, datePublished, >> dateModified, expires, creator (and possibly others) will be useful in >> describing EducationalOccupationalCredentials. >> >> Any comments? >> >> Phil. >> >> >> [outline use cases] https://www.w3.org/community/e >> ocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases >> -- >> >> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil >> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk/>: technology to enhance learning; >> information systems for education. >> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education >> technology. >> >> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, >> number SC569282. >> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in >> England number OC399090 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil >> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk/>: technology to enhance learning; >> information systems for education. >> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education >> technology. >> >> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, >> number SC569282. >> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in >> England number OC399090 >> >> >> > -- Stuart A. Sutton, Metadata Consultant Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Washington Information School Email: stuartasutton@gmail.com Skype: sasutton
Received on Tuesday, 9 January 2018 22:42:10 UTC