[minutes] eGov IG call - 29 Oct 2008


Draft minutes of the call today are available at:


and as text below.

As usual, if nothing heard before EOB tomorrow, they'll be declared  

Thanks to the ones that joined and again to Benjamin for scribing.

-- Jose.


eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
29 Oct 2008

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/29-egov-irc


           benjamin, jose, rachel, owen, martin, tom, oscar, kjetil,
           john s. (part)





      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Convene, agenda adjustments
          2. [5]Introductions - new people onboard?
          3. [6]F2F Meeting debrief
          4. [7]Review of the Topic Areas
          5. [8]Assign people (+use cases) to areas
          6. [9]Next Meeting
      * [10]Summary of Action Items

    josema: john and kevin will try to join later

Convene, agenda adjustments

    josema: I will be chairing
    ... any additions to agenda ?
    ... [goes through the agenda]

Introductions - new people onboard?

    josema: is this Tom's first call ?

    <Tom> no it isn't

F2F Meeting debrief


      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2008Oct/0069

    <Tom> unfortunately I couldn't be present in the F2F meeting, sorry
    for that...

    josema: message sent to the list with minutes
    ... very broad, F2F big success because we finally scope it
    ... [12]12 areas identified where the group will work

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes#topics

    josema: most of the topics on the first day was scoping the work
    ... next day was review in detail the more complicated issues and
    assign people to specific areas
    ... eGov must act as a channel between governments and other W3C
    ... if we hear of anything a gov needs, go and inform a group,
    conversely, see what W3C has to offer and tell this to govs

    martin: we narrowed down the issues to detailled subjects upon whch
    we can start working upon
    ... will link to my document
    ... issue of authentification shared by many governments
    ... each provider offers its own authentication method
    ... main problem is getting a proper ID to each citizen
    ... and prevent identity fraud

    <Tom> main problem seems to be conflict of interest between vendors.
    a semantic and technical interoperability solution should solve this

Review of the Topic Areas


      [13] http://www.forumstandaardisatie.nl/fileadmin/OVOS/Exploring_authentication__EN.pdf

    <josema> [14]topic areas

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes#topics

    josema: check is something is missing from topic areas
    ... I found one missing over the WE
    ... "Multi-channel delivery"
    ... there already are volunteers to work on some topic areas
    ... others not present can also contribute
    ... go through all the topics ?

    <Tom> why not

    <Rachel> yes please

1. Semantic Interoperability

    <martin> info on [15]http://www.semic.eu/semic/

      [15] http://www.semic.eu/semic/

    josema: semic: european repository of interoperability assets (XML
    ... used by governments in Europe
    ... make assets reusable by others

    <Tom> that doesn't sound like semantic interoperability to me but
    rather sharing data structure

    josema: it is difficult to involve semic.eu in the WG
    ... it is not possible for them to join W3C
    ... have them as invited experts ?
    ... they should bring semantic interoperability to the group.

    martin: tom points out this is not semantic interoperability
    ... its supposed to become a base to semantic interoperability
    ... the project started as an XML clearing house
    ... the idea is now to collect assets and reuse them (or their

    Tom: there are more interesting things going on in the legal field
    ... criminal records for instance
    ... it is important to go beyond structural information

    martin: legal aspects are part of semic

    tom: not noticeable in the member states
    ... look at the eJustice field
    ... criminal records are supported by european directives member
    states must exchange criminal record
    ... there is a need of exchanging the semantic of the criminal
    records, not just the structure
    ... can not be understood just by looking at the terms
    ... we must achieve compatibility with these records

    josema: find people working on this and provide more information,
    build a use case around this example
    ... add it into our document as an example of things going on

    tom: 2 important conferences on this issue, one tomorrow in Florence

    <Tom> [16]http://www.ittig.cnr.it/LawViaTheInternet/

      [16] http://www.ittig.cnr.it/LawViaTheInternet/


      [17] http://www.ictparliament.org/index.php?option=com_search&searchword=wor

    <Owen> In the U.S. government the sharing of law enforcement/first
    responder data is a major thrust, through the National Information
    Exchange Model (NIEM): [18]http://www.niem.gov/

      [18] http://www.niem.gov/

2. Persistent URIs

    josema: personnal experience: seems too technical for governments

    <John> This is a topic very close to my heart - and an important one
    for the group - also for the W3C

    josema: the W3C must speak in better terms to governments
    ... this about once something goes on the web it must be archived
    ... ie, internet archive
    ... John volunteered on this topic

3. Performance Data + Citizen Choice

    josema: no one volunteered at F2F
    ... we had a long discussion, but we were not sure we were scoping
    the topic area enough
    ... we discussed some example, health in the UK

    <Tom> also important for law cases (just had to release criminals
    since the original material could not be reproduced in appeal)

    <Owen> US GPO's summary of results of its beta test of Handles is
    available at [19]http://www.fdlp.gov/handles/index.html

      [19] http://www.fdlp.gov/handles/index.html

    josema: publishing gov information in a way the consumers can get it
    and use it in the way they want

    <Tom> My remark refers to preservation of digital data.

    josema: this can take place outside gov web sites

    oscar: what is the perception of the data provided by govs to the
    ... ie, if you have a child and several schools they can attend, how
    is data made available?
    ... The data must be incorporated into decision making of citizens.
    ... Information is also shared in C2C (citizen 2 citizen)
    ... citizen must also be able to shared their experience so as to
    improve gov services

    <Owen> An article on US LOC's use of PURLs is available at

      [20] http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/law_librarian_blog/2008/10/lc-thomas-imple.html

    oscar: users can also created their own performance data, use the
    information in a specific way.

4. Data Sharing Policy Expression

    josema:we discussed an example of the UK Ornance Survey
    ... where license has to be attached to data

    <martin> my mobile went down, need to find an adapter

    josema: once data is available in an open format, it could be
    necessary to attach a policy (licence) to the data
    ... ie, citizens can use the information for free, but a company
    that will use it for commercial purposes then it needs to pay
    ... 1) how is data available
    ... 2) how to attach the policy
    ... 3) verify that the organizations using the data are following
    the policies

5. Digital Preservation + Authenticity + Temporal Degradation

    josema:... persistent URIs, but not only
    ... provenance problem also
    ... we reviewed how the paper world and digital worlds compare
    ... another example is how to release information that was once
    classified after a period of time has gone by

    <Owen> With reference to data sharing policy, the draft XSD for the
    US FEA DRM contains elements such as <AccessControlProtocol>,
    <AvailabilityLevel>, and <ConfidentialityLevel>.

      [21] http://xml.gov/draft/drm20060105.xsd

    josema: and authentify the fact that data was not altered

    oscar: digital preservation concerns archives
    ... check what the current solutions are, in particular data
    ... engage with W3C groups to see what is available concerning
    digital signatures

    josema: it is the Nat archives core business

    benjamin: use case proposed was copying encrypted document on a
    large P2P network
    ... how to guarantee integrity over time
    ... I might contribute in that aspect

    <John> Yup!

    <John> would be good to identify which W3C groups we should be
    talking to

    josema: build agendas in future meetings with invited guests
    ... to interact with them, ie, XML data signatures

    <John> that's a great idea

6. IPR Expression

    josema: licence attached to the data itself as mentioned before is
    one example

    <John> Are people familiar with ACAP: [22]http://www.the-acap.org/

      [22] http://www.the-acap.org/

    josema: martin mentionned the creative commons licence
    ... but this licence could be conflicting with the one used in the

    <John> the licence and the technology (CC's use of RDFa) are very

    martin: yes, using creative commons restricts some rights granted
    with the licence used today
    ... this could be linked to the differences between common law and
    civil law

    <kjetil> yeah, I can hear you

    <kjetil> well, what I was going to say that what the license says
    and the technical aspects are different

    <kjetil> so, the CC RDF/RDFa things could be used

    <kjetil> even though one would need different URIs for the actual
    license permissions and restrictions

7. Identification + Authentication

    martin: see the report that identifies some of the issues to be
    dealt with
    ... use this as a starting point

    <josema> the report:

      [23] http://www.forumstandaardisatie.nl/fileadmin/OVOS/Exploring_authentication__EN.pdf

    martin: this is identified by the dutch gov as a serious problem

8. Data Aggregation

    benjamin: data from different points of view, government, citizen
    ... how to get aggregated views of that data
    ... use case eVoting, statistics on specific information, eg: health

    martin: also criminal records

    benjamin: put there on temporal degradation

    <Owen> Policy guidance for U.S. federal agencies on a common means
    of identification & authentication is provided at

      [24] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040827-8.html

9. Your Web Site is your API (eg. RDFa, sitemaps?)

    benjamin: [25]RDFa and [26]sitemaps (XML schema used to make content
    easier to discover by search engines)

      [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-rdfa-syntax-20081014/
      [26] http://sitemaps.org/

    oscar: amount of data available in public organizations
    ... data is explosed in human readable format
    ... we want to promote the use of this information in machine
    readable format
    ... some experiences have already been done

    martin: we are currently working in th NL on a search engine
    ... to verify that the information retrieved by citizen from a web
    site is correct
    ... [something about disclaimers on how information is retrieved on
    the internet]
    ... working on creating an RDF environment

10. What Data? How does the government decide?

    <martin> A disclaimer on infomation found on government websites may
    in the future be legally binding

    josema: 1) how does the gov decide what data should be made
    ... in some countries like the US, there are laws in place stating
    ... in other countries (eg. Spain) this does not exist
    ... 2) what's the best way to put the data out there
    ... need to convince some govs of the benefit it has of providing
    the data
    ... making a positive policy case to govs is difficult
    ... find examples of things working right now

    <Tom> Also in the NL: except if security or other interests of the
    state are on stake. Of course data on individuals/businesses is not
    accessible either.

    josema: [27]DBPedia

      [27] http://dbpedia.org/

    owen: in the US, under the electronic freedom act amendment
    ... agencies must make available any record that are requested by
    one individual
    ... and of interest for at least 3 others
    ... agencies must make resonable efforts to share them in any format
    they are requested
    ... the application is clear: agencies must create and maintain a
    readily shareable format, such as XML
    ... if they do not do that they break the spirit of the law

    josema: is the issue that they know how to publish in open formats
    but do not do it ?
    ... or that they do not know how to publish in open format

    owen: several issues
    ... long in responding to requests, agencies claim they do not have
    the resources to make information available in a timely manner
    ... sometimes this is true due to security issues, in other cases,
    it is a design issu problem with their information systems

    josema: propose some guidelines to them?

    owen: they should start by publishing on their web site XML schemas
    for all their information collections
    ... so we can understand what data they have and build a registry
    bottom up
    ... once we have understood what information they have, we must then
    publish to what extent they are publishing said information
    ... and take actions if they are not offering enough information
    ... the data reference model is about sharing of data. I was a
    member of the WG that produced this model
    ... agencies must implement the DRM as XML Schema on their web sites
    ... but they pushed back against the use of this global schema
    ... they want to continue using their own formats

    josema: can use this as a use case ?

    owen: finalizing the DRM for XML schema would be an outstanding

    <josema> ACTION owen to draft XML Schema for DRM as use case to use
    it for 10. What data?

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Draft XML Schema for DRM as use case
    to use it for 10. What data? [on Owen Ambur - due 2008-11-05].

11. Participation in Social Media; what are the rules?

    josema: all sorts of social media one can think of, and how all this
    is evolving on the web, ie. twitter
    ... blogs, are posters representing their agencies or not
    ... citizens discussing many issues amongst themselves
    ... UK and NZ example: a policy for the public servants

    <josema> W3C workshop: [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/

    josema: Karen Myers suggested the workshop above
    ... John will draft a position paper on social networking
    ... so the Group could show the workshop we are finding issues

12. Temporal Data (Legislation/Legal (Law Reports), Geospatial)

    benjamin: what to do with evolution of data?
    ... if should be possible to refer to specific revisions of a
    ... and how link to that in a consistent manner

Assign people (+use cases) to areas

    josema: do this by email
    ... deadline: by mid november topic areas should be fixed
    ... and at least one use case per area
    ... not something too detailed for the moment

Next Meeting

    josema: next meeting 12 nov
    ... at 13:00 UTC


Summary of Action Items

    ACTION-33 - Draft XML Schema for DRM as use case to use it for 10.
    What data? [on Owen Ambur - due 2008-11-05].

    [End of minutes]

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Received on Wednesday, 29 October 2008 17:15:08 UTC