RE: NY Property Tax Explorer

Would be cool to be able to change the past but I don't think we will.

Christophe

--
Sent with difficulties. Sorry for the brievety and typos...
Op 27 mrt. 2015 17:07 schreef "Steven Adler" <adler1@us.ibm.com>:

> So, does our BP document only apply to data published in the future in the
> file types we bless?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve
>
> Motto: "Do First, Think, Do it Again"
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Christophe Guéret ---03/27/2015 11:40:10
> AM---Hoi, We are not writing a document that describes how p]Christophe
> Guéret ---03/27/2015 11:40:10 AM---Hoi, We are not writing a document that
> describes how people publish and consume
>
>
>
>    From:
>
>
> Christophe Guéret <christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl>
>
>    To:
>
>
> Makx Dekkers <mail@makxdekkers.com>
>
>    Cc:
>
>
> Steven Adler/Somers/IBM@IBMUS, DWBP WG <public-dwbp-wg@w3.org>, Bart van
> Leeuwen <bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>
>
>    Date:
>
>
> 03/27/2015 11:40 AM
>
>    Subject:
>
>
> RE: NY Property Tax Explorer
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Hoi,
>
> We are not writing a document that describes how people publish and
> consume open data, we are writing guidelines on how they can best do it.
>
> The concept of "best" is obviously subjective but I hope we can at list
> agree on some points.
>
> I was recently sitting with people dealing with crisis. They need a lot of
> data and when asking for it they sometimes get a PDF with a picture of a
> hand written table in it. According to the publisher this is good open
> data. Is it really so? The consumers spent a lot of time extracting the
> data from it...
>
> Our document could help there by letting the consumers having something to
> help arguing with the publisher and hopefully get something more usable.
>
> As for every best practices, there is no guarantee ours will be followed
> but having somewhere an officially endorsed way of publishing good open
> data will surely be welcomed by many data publishers and consumers.
>
> Cheers,
> Christophe
>
> --
> Sent with difficulties. Sorry for the brievety and typos...
>
> Op 27 mrt. 2015 16:19 schreef "Makx Dekkers" <*mail@makxdekkers.com*
> <mail@makxdekkers.com>>:
>
>    Apologies for missing the call, again, today.
>
>
>
>    In my mind, we really need to say what we mean with ‘best practice’.
>    Do we really think we can define one best practice implying that all the
>    rest is ‘bad practice’? I don’t think so. What I would like to see is
>    ‘practice related to objectives’ and then try to determine what kinds of
>    behaviour make sense for what kinds of objectives.
>
>
>
>    For example, certain forms of PDF are really good if you want to
>    enable out-loud reading of documents for the blind, but not so good to
>    extract tabular information. If you want to make your tabular data useful
>    for applications, there are better ways to publish the data than PDF.
>
>
>
>    As I earlier argued for metadata best practices, I think the most
>    useful kind of advice should be something like: if you want to do A, then
>    if you publish data as X you will have the following advantages and
>    disadvantages, and you should really consider format Y to increase
>    usefulness of your data.
>
>
>
>    Makx.
>
>
>
>
>
>    *De:* Steven Adler [mailto:*adler1@us.ibm.com* <adler1@us.ibm.com>]
> * Enviado el:* 27 March 2015 15:41
> * Para:* Bart van Leeuwen
> * CC:* DWBP WG
> * Asunto:* Re: NY Property Tax Explorer
>
>
>
>    Bart,
>
>    A PDF might not conform to your definition of a best practice, but NYC
>    is publishing tens of thousands of PDF's that describe property taxes,
>    hospitals, crime reports, and housing inspections.
>
>    My point is that if we restrict our recommendations of best practices
>    to only conform to what we define as the best file types, we are
>    deliberately limiting the relevance of our work in the real world.
>
>
>
>
>
>    Best Regards,
>
>    Steve
>
>    Motto: "Do First, Think, Do it Again"
>
>    [image: Inactive hide details for Bart van Leeuwen ---03/27/2015
>    10:35:44 AM---I think we try to assemble a 'best practice' with this w]Bart
>    van Leeuwen ---03/27/2015 10:35:44 AM---I think we try to assemble a 'best
>    practice' with this working group. I sincerely hope you don't con
>
>
>
>
>    From:
>
>
> Bart van Leeuwen <*bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl*
> <bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>>
>
>
>    To:
>
>
> Steven Adler/Somers/IBM@IBMUS
>
>
>    Cc:
>
>
> "DWBP WG" <*public-dwbp-wg@w3.org* <public-dwbp-wg@w3.org>>
>
>
>    Date:
>
>
> 03/27/2015 10:35 AM
>
>
>    Subject:
>
>
> Re: NY Property Tax Explorer
>
>    ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>    I think we try to assemble a 'best practice' with this working group.
>    I sincerely hope you don't consider data published in a PDF to conform
>    to this best practice.
>
>    I'm not arguing that it is possible to get usable data from these
>    formats, but they were not intended to carry data in a machine readable way.
>
>
>    Bart
>
>    Steven Adler <*adler1@us.ibm.com* <adler1@us.ibm.com>> wrote on
>    27-03-2015 15:09:32:
>
>    > From: Steven Adler <*adler1@us.ibm.com* <adler1@us.ibm.com>>
>    > To: "DWBP WG" <*public-dwbp-wg@w3.org* <public-dwbp-wg@w3.org>>
>    > Date: 27-03-2015 15:10
>    > Subject: NY Property Tax Explorer
>    >
>    > You may recall I submitted a use case about this example from NYC
>    > last year.  The developer, Chris Wong, who works for Socrata, wrote
>    > a Ruby routine to scrape 1000 PDF files for property tax data to
>    > fill out this map app:
>    >
>    > *http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/56*
>    <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/56>
>    >
>    > Chris is a self-taught developer, by no means a pro.  I think this
>    > story well demonstrates that Data on the Web today is quite
>    > innovative and PDF, JPG, AVI, MP3, and MP4 are commonly machine
>    readable.
>    >
>    > Restricting our recommendations to file formats that conform only
>    > those covered by W3C WG's (JSON, CSV, RDF, etc) ignores the reality
>    > of how Open Data is published and used.
>    >
>    >
>    > Best Regards,
>    >
>    > Steve
>    >
>    > Motto: "Do First, Think, Do it Again"
>
>
>