Re: Event Updated: DPVCG Meeting Call 15 May 2024

Hi Mark, I see where you are coming from and agree. This issue has been noted previously, and I have taken the action to come up with a proposed ‘human’ extension for DPV that introduces that lens that is oriented for a reader / user of DPV (or an agent acting on their behalf) to have a framing of specific that works for them.

Happy to have you contribute that if you think that works?

Cheers

Iain

> On 16 May 2024, at 06:14, Mark Lizar <mark@openconsent.com> wrote:
> 
> Simply put, 
> 
> Consent is provisioned from the individual — it’s from a person - the semantics must reflect this.  While the standard might say consent record, in reality it is a record of notice, which provides proof of knowledge that give the legal evidence of consent.  So ‘obtain consent <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/115#issuecomment-1793416931>’ is not correct semantic as this would be obtain permission, 
> 
> The trouble with enterprise type of  legal  perspective is that the semantics are all interpreted from the institutional perspective in DPV, while consent in law is acutally human legal perspective. This means consent comes from people, it’s not a something is too someone - e.g. obtained from them.   It could be ‘provided’ or it could be captured, indicated through action, but only if is informed in accordance with Chapter 1 Transparency Modalities in GDPR.
> 
> Does this help? 
> 
> Mark 
> 
>> On May 15, 2024, at 10:05 AM, Harshvardhan Pandit <me@harshp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark.
>> I have the same understanding - and I am not disagreeing with you - but I don't understand what you're asking here (sorry). What do you - specifically - want to add or change or remove from DPV? DPVCG does not make requirements for how things work - we provide a specification for representation of information for requirements that come from e.g. law or standards.
>> 
>> On 15/05/2024 14:54, Mark Lizar wrote:
>>> Hi Harsh,
>>> Consent is human and legally defined, and this is how it is defined in law.  Both must be considered.  Systems manage permissions, human manage consent, and consent is implied through the purpose of an action.   Most importantly, consent can only be provided if there is sufficient transparency, it is not something that happens independent of notice.   For consent to be valid, the identity of the controller must first be provided, or else consent cannot be provided.
>>> - Mark
>>>> On 15 May 2024, at 09:26, Harshvardhan Pandit <me@harshp.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mark.
>>>> We are modelling consent as defined in laws and legal terminology. From the perspective of the individual, they 'provide' consent. From the perspective of the organisation, they 'obtain' (or collect) consent. I don't think we are conflating consent and permissions.
>>>> 
>>>> On 15/05/2024 14:22, Mark Lizar wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> There is a huge issue in that Consent and Permission are very confused.
>>>>> Systems obtain permission, permission is given, all of which can happen with out the consent or consensus of the individual.  The semantics are incredibly important, as the dark patterns in the identity management is a significant problem.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>> On 15 May 2024, at 09:05, Mark Lizar <mark@openconsent.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Harsh,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Consent is provided not obtained,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 14 May 2024, at 16:10, Harshvardhan J. Pandit (W3C Calendar) <noreply+calendar@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> View this event in your browser <https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f0fbb7f-df36-4325-b39b-60e0eac5c8b7/20240515T140000/<https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f0fbb7f-df36-4325-b39b-60e0eac5c8b7/20240515T140000/>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  DPVCG Meeting Call 15 May 2024 ^Upcoming ^Confirmed
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 15 May 2024, 14:00 -15:00 Europe/Dublin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Event is recurring weekly on Wednesday, starting from 2024-04-24, until 2024-12-19
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Data Privacy Vocabularies and Controls Community Group <https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/calendar/<https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/calendar/>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is the weekly DPVCG meeting call
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Agenda
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Agenda <https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f0fbb7f-df36-4325-b39b-60e0eac5c8b7/20240515T140000/<https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f0fbb7f-df36-4325-b39b-60e0eac5c8b7/20240515T140000/>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Previous minutes:https://w3id.org/dpv/meetings/meeting-2024-05-08<https://w3id.org/dpv/meetings/meeting-2024-05-08><https://w3id.org/dpv/meetings/meeting-2024-05-08<https://w3id.org/dpv/meetings/meeting-2024-05-08>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This meeting will be chaired by Beatriz with apologies from Harsh
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To confirm issue can be closed: (the text will be updated after concepts are finalised)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  * justifications:https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/83<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/83>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/83<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/83>> see live:
>>>>>>> https://harshp.com/dpv/justifications/<https://harshp.com/dpv/justifications/>
>>>>>>>    <https://harshp.com/dpv/justifications/<https://harshp.com/dpv/justifications/>>
>>>>>>>  * statuses for involved, intention, entity informed:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/116<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/116>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/116<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/116>> see live:
>>>>>>>  * human involvement and automatino:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/108<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/108>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/108<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/108>> see live:
>>>>>>> https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-context-status<https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-context-status>
>>>>>>>    <https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-context-status<https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-context-status>>
>>>>>>>  * Tech extension - dropped prefix 'Technology' from actors:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/142<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/142>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/142<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/142>>
>>>>>>>  * Tech extension - added cloud concepts, status, docs, removed
>>>>>>>    categories:https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/47<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/47>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/47<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/47>>
>>>>>>>  * AI Act add Prospective Provider:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/146<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/146>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/146<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/146>>
>>>>>>>  * added GDPR principles, see live:
>>>>>>> https://harshp.com/dpv/legal/eu/gdpr/#vocab-principles<https://harshp.com/dpv/legal/eu/gdpr/#vocab-principles>
>>>>>>>    <https://harshp.com/dpv/legal/eu/gdpr/#vocab-principles<https://harshp.com/dpv/legal/eu/gdpr/#vocab-principles>> (fyi,
>>>>>>>    confirm its okay)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To discuss:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  * measures for consent obtain, withdraw etc.:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/115<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/115>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/115<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/115>> - added controls for
>>>>>>>    consent, see live:
>>>>>>> https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-legal-basis-consent-controls<https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-legal-basis-consent-controls>
>>>>>>>    <https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-legal-basis-consent-controls<https://harshp.com/dpv/dpv/#vocab-legal-basis-consent-controls>>
>>>>>>>  * Express 'goal' or 'purpose' of technology -
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/85<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/85>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/85<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/85>>, see
>>>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2024May/0002.html<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2024May/0002.html><https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2024May/0002.html<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2024May/0002.html>> proposing tech:hasIntendedUse
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Reminder:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  * DPV v2 release schedulehttps://github.com/w3c/dpv/milestone/4<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/milestone/4>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/milestone/4<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/milestone/4>>
>>>>>>> Help wanted:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  * update README.md and docs -https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/144<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/144>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/144<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/144>>
>>>>>>>  * add profile metadata to dpv rdf -
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/141<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/141>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/141<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/141>>
>>>>>>>  * review contents (when ready) -
>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/127<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/127>
>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/127<https://github.com/w3c/dpv/issues/127>>
>>>>>>> AOB
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Joining Instructions
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Join the meeting <https://dcu-ie.zoom.us/j/92216714069?pwd=NUIrZWFmWDF0bExhU3V2ak43L3lrUT09 <https://dcu-ie.zoom.us/j/92216714069?pwd=NUIrZWFmWDF0bExhU3V2ak43L3lrUT09>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Participants
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>      Groups
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  * Data Privacy Vocabularies and Controls Community Group
>>>>>>>    <https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/<https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/>> (View Calendar
>>>>>>>    <https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/calendar/<https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/dpvcg/calendar/>>)
>>>>>>> Report feedback and issues on GitHub <https://github.com/w3c/calendar<https://github.com/w3c/calendar>>.
>>>>>>> To stop receiving these emails please update your calendar preferences <https://www.w3.org/users/myprofile/calendar/preferences/<https://www.w3.org/users/myprofile/calendar/preferences/>>.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <event.ics>
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> ---
>>>> Harshvardhan J. Pandit, Ph.D
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> ADAPT Centre, Dublin City University
>>>> https://harshp.com/<https://harshp.com/>
>> 
>> -- 
>> ---
>> Harshvardhan J. Pandit, Ph.D
>> Assistant Professor
>> ADAPT Centre, Dublin City University
>> https://harshp.com/
>