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draft minutes from today's teleconference, 7 Aug 2014

From: Frederick Hirsch <w3c@fjhirsch.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 12:40:19 -0400
Message-Id: <C577C168-9758-47B4-BBB2-BD221E8C7DB2@fjhirsch.com>
Cc: Frederick Hirsch <w3c@fjhirsch.com>
To: Device APIs Working Group <public-device-apis@w3.org>
Attached are draft minutes from today’s DAP teleconference, 7 August 2014. I scribed. Please send any corrections to the list.

Next call is 21 August 2014, see http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes.html#upcoming-teleconferences

regards, Frederick

Frederick Hirsch, Nokia
@fjhirsch


[![W3C][1]][2]

# Device APIs Working Group Teleconference

## 07 Aug 2014

[Agenda][3]

See also: [IRC log][4]

## Attendees

Present

    Anssi_Kostiainen, Cathy_Chan, Frederick_Hirsch, Giri_Mandyam, Lisa_DeLuca,
Mats_Wichmann

Regrets


Chair

    Frederick_Hirsch

Scribe

    fjh

## Contents

  * [Topics][5]

    1. [Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements][6]

    2. [Minutes approval][7]

    3. [Last Call conclusion and CR publication of HTML Media Capture, Light,
Vibration][8]

    4. [Vibration Test updates][9]

    5. [Charter Update][10]

    6. [Battery - Cordova Feedback][11]

    7. [Open Battery Issues][12]

    8. [Action Review][13]

    9. [Cordova next steps][14]

    10. [Other Business][15]

    11. [Adjourn][16]

  * [Summary of Action Items][17]

* * *

<trackbot> Date: 07 August 2014

### Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements

<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh

Media Capture TF update on list (2 July): [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0017.html][18]

TPAC (27-31 Oct, Santa Clara) Registration now open,
[http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/][19]

### Minutes approval

Approve minutes from 26 June 2014

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jun/att-0116/minutes-2014-06-26.html][20]

**RESOLUTION: Minutes from 26 June 2014 are approved**

### Last Call conclusion and CR publication of HTML Media Capture, Light,
Vibration

Last Call drafts of HTML Media Capture, Light, Vibration published, LC ended
24 July 2014

No last call comments on HTML Media Capture.

No last call comments on Light Events.

One Last Call Comment on Vibration API, see [https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-
comments-tracker/43696/WD-vibration-20140619/2945][21]

Proposed resolution: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0000.html][22]

Proposed RESOLUTION: Adopt proposed resolution for LC-2945,
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0000.html][22]

**RESOLUTION: Adopt proposed resolution for LC-2945,
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0000.html][22]**

<scribe> **ACTION:** anssik to add resolution to LC-2945 to draft [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action01][23]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-706 - Add resolution to lc-2945 to draft [on Anssi
Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14].

anssik: should it be a note

fjh: normative is better

anssi: assume you are aligning the implementation with W3C

LisaDeLuca_IBM: updated javascript bridge so shoud affect all across platform

... should be good for all releases should go into Cordova 3.6, next month

... which should we tackle next

fjh: also welcome feedback on battery (later in today's agenda)

... Plan and changes for CR publications: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0001.html][24]

**RESOLUTION: Start 2 week CfC ending 21 August to publish CR drafts of HTML
Media Capture, Ambient Light Events, and the Vibration API on 28 August, with
details as noted in [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0001.html][24]**

<scribe> **ACTION:** fjh to send CfC for CR for HTML Media Capture, Ambient
Light Events, Vibration API [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-
minutes.html#action02][25]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-707 - Send cfc for cr for html media capture,
ambient light events, vibration api [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-08-14].

fjh: suggest we stay with old process for now

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0012.html][26]

### Vibration Test updates

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0052.html][27]

some vibration tests are still missing

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0054.html][28]

anssik: I think we agreed he can write tests even though test facilitator as
long as we get review, so I can ask him to write tests for those that are
missing

fjh: yes, that is right

... please ask him to do this

anssik: only three missing, one no longer relevant

... I can review the tests

<scribe> **ACTION:** anssik to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action03][29]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-708 - to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests
[on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14].

anssik: firefox bug fixed as part of this test

fjh: yes, that was good [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0052.html][27]

### Charter Update

fjh: I think we need Dom for this discussion

proposed Wake Lock addition: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2014Jul/0055.html][30]

WebIntents, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0023.html][31] (Paul Kinlan)

fjh: not sure what we can do now on this call, please review

anssik: webintents removed from WebApps charter in latest update

... what does this mean with respect to the Task Force

fjh: if it is not in the WebApps charter then I do not believe it makes sense
to continue a joint task force, since there could be associated IPR
obligations

... that said, I think we can keep the Task Force list and have a Task force
for the DAP WG if useful

... we should involve Dom in discussions, he understands bigger chartering
picture

... across the groups

... we already have WebIntents work in the DAP charter, given the interest
probably makes sense to keep, maybe with some modifications

... presumable we will review a draft charter before formally progressing to
recharter

... lets defer discussion until we have Dom on the call with more facts

### Battery - Cordova Feedback

LisaDeLuca_IBM: we have some concern about battery, here is link

<LisaDeLuca_IBM> [http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=org.apache.incubator
.callback-dev+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+order%3Adate-
backward+w3c#query:org.apache.incubator.callback-
dev%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20order%3Adate-
backward%20w3c+page:1+mid:3qrirxhvzumzkyh2+state:results][32]

LisaDeLuca_IBM: we have some concern about battery, here is link

"The spec is flawed in that there's no way we could implement it as it

stands. The spec needs to be reworked to be more event driven and

asynchronous. Right now it's too much like device with everything up

front."

LisaDeLuca_IBM: will follow up

fjh: a concrete proposal would be helpful

anssi: not sure what this means to be "more event driven"

... we already have events in the spec

... too high level comment, need concrete feedback

LisaDeLuca_IBM: yes, will ask

fjh: this is the only remaining Cordova issue/feedback, correct?

LisaDeLuca_IBM: yes

fjh: will raise issue on this one to track it

### Open Battery Issues

review issues and status noted in [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2014Aug/0006.html][33]

ISSUE-164?

<trackbot> ISSUE-164 -- Correct default for charging time if unknown in
battery -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/164][34]

fjh: can we close

anssik: ok

cathy: ok

close ISSUE-164

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-164.

ISSUE-165?

<trackbot> ISSUE-165 -- Clarify language around multiple batteries -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/165][35]

fjh: can we close

anssik: yes

cathy: yes

close ISSUE-165

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-165.

ISSUE-166?

<trackbot> ISSUE-166 -- Should getBattery() always return the same promise? --
open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/166][36]

mounir's answer [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0006.html][37]

fjh: we are treating as one virtual battery, so why would you ever have more
than one battery manager?

... this should stay open, no resolution

anssik: spec has not been updated

... I will check and respond to mounir on the list

... to follow upon on ISSUE-166 and [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0003.html][38]

<scribe> **ACTION:** anssik to follow upon on ISSUE-166 and
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0003.html][38]
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action04][39]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-709 - Follow upon on issue-166 and
[http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-device-apis/2014jul/0003.html][40]
[on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14].

fjh: we need a concrete proposal so we can be clear on what we agree to. One
Promise, one BatteryManager?

anssik: no argument that BatteryManager should be same instance

fjh: why does it matter whether promise is same or not?

anssi: comparision?

... this may be a minor issue

ISSUE-167?

<trackbot> ISSUE-167 -- Should Promises be used in Battery API -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/167][41]

fjh: we were accomodating the feedback to use promises uniformly, but maybe
that was a mistake

anssik: need opportunity to prompt user before getting battery - advantage of
promises

... but slight advantage of having data avaialble syncnronouslly

... first access to battery manager slower than subsequent times

<anssik> [https://twitter.com/ebidel/status/494963550683533312][42]

fjh: I thought advantage was usability for code writing, given potential
complexity of nested call backs

anssik: true but not used that way in this API so not relevant, since only
giving battery manager handler instance, not for the events

... not used here as they are primarily designed

... google concern is performance

fjh: what about web components?

<anssik> [https://gist.github.com/ebidel/d9c591d77b4c2b68c347][43]

anssi: have an implementation for old implementation and for the new

fjh: do we have measurements for the old implementation?

<anssik> [https://gist.github.com/rwaldron/850590359d298e35bc61][44]

fjh: look there is long startup time on old design as well as new for desktop

... something like object instantiation

... not sure it makes sense for us to analyzie in real time

anssik: should we publish

fjh: think we need to look at some of the bigger issues first

ISSUE-168?

<trackbot> ISSUE-168 -- getBattery() vs. requestBattery() pattern -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168][45]

anssik: I can summarize issues on the list

fjh: first api was simpler so why not use that? what is the real problem at
issue?

anssik: multiprocess but we've heard both ways

... will send summary to list of technical issues and key points

<anssik> I can try to summarize on the list what I gather as pros and cons for
both the designs

fjh: will suggest going back to original design, ask why not, simplest

anssik: issue of dealing with conflicting implementations, google shipping
behind run time flag in canary

fjh: ok so lets take this to the list

[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168][45]

fjh: anssi, I think you need to look at this offline and talk to mounir

<scribe> **ACTION:** anssik to look at ISSUE-168
[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168][45] [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action05][46]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-710 - Look at issue-168
[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168][45] [on Anssi Kostiainen - due
2014-08-14].

### Action Review

ACTION-704?

<trackbot> ACTION-704 -- Lisa Seacat DeLuca to Follow up re closing january
cordova feedback -- due 2014-07-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/704][47]

close ACTION-704

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-704.

ACTION-705?

<trackbot> ACTION-705 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Add warning to Battery API that
(naive) implementation of API could negatively affect battery life -- due
2014-08-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/705][48]

fjh: can defer, will leave open for now, will probably be resolved with other
fixes

close ACTION-700

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-700.

close ACTION-702

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-702.

### Cordova next steps

fjh: think you might want to consider HTML Media Capture or Light Events,
since stable and moving forward

LisaDeLuca_IBM: HTML Media Capture would make sense, stable, don't have
anything for Light

<anssik_> [http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.awokenwell.proximity][49]

anssik: might be different than plugins

... might be a challenge

LisaDeLuca_IBM: can look at it, will send a message to the list about any
difficulties

fjh: good to get an idea, can then decide what to do next

### Other Business

fjh: Anssik can you please talk to mounir, let's see if we can understand the
core issues, get concrete proposals for battery

... what can we simplify

... next call scheduled for 21 August expect we will discuss the charter if
Dom is back

### Adjourn

## Summary of Action Items

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action03][29]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to add resolution to LC-2945 to draft [recorded
in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action01][23]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to follow upon on ISSUE-166 and
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0003.html][38]
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action04][39]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to look at ISSUE-168
[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168][45] [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action05][46]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to send CfC for CR for HTML Media Capture, Ambient
Light Events, Vibration API [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-
minutes.html#action02][25]]


[End of minutes]

* * *

Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][50] version 1.135 ([CVS
log][51])

$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $

   [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home

   [2]: http://www.w3.org/

   [3]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0007.html

   [4]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-irc

   [5]: #agenda

   [6]: #item01

   [7]: #item02

   [8]: #item03

   [9]: #item04

   [10]: #item05

   [11]: #item06

   [12]: #item07

   [13]: #item08

   [14]: #item09

   [15]: #item10

   [16]: #item11

   [17]: #ActionSummary

   [18]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0017.html

   [19]: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/

   [20]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jun/att-0116/minutes-2014-06-26.html

   [21]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-
vibration-20140619/2945

   [22]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0000.html

   [23]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action01

   [24]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0001.html

   [25]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action02

   [26]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0012.html

   [27]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0052.html

   [28]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0054.html

   [29]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action03

   [30]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0055.html

   [31]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0023.html

   [32]: http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=org.apache.incubator.callback-
dev+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+order%3Adate-
backward+w3c#query:org.apache.incubator.callback-
dev%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20order%3Adate-
backward%20w3c+page:1+mid:3qrirxhvzumzkyh2+state:results

   [33]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Aug/0006.html

   [34]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/164

   [35]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/165

   [36]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/166

   [37]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0006.html

   [38]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2014Jul/0003.html

   [39]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action04

   [40]: http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-device-
apis/2014jul/0003.html

   [41]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/167

   [42]: https://twitter.com/ebidel/status/494963550683533312

   [43]: https://gist.github.com/ebidel/d9c591d77b4c2b68c347

   [44]: https://gist.github.com/rwaldron/850590359d298e35bc61

   [45]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168

   [46]: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html#action05

   [47]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/704

   [48]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/705

   [49]: http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.awokenwell.proximity

   [50]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

   [51]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/




Received on Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:40:51 UTC

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