See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 01 June 2011
<scribe> ScribeNick: AnssiK
<darobin> RESOLUTION: Anssi rocks
<fjh> 19-21 July F2F logistics, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Apr/0000.html
fjh: F2F is in July, please register
<fjh> Please register - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/paris-2011/
<fjh> see http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
fjh: chartering is on its way
... AC reps are looking at it as we speak
<fjh> DAP and Web RTC
fjh: WebRTC and DAP chairs met recently
Dom: WebRTC will be dealing with the media streaming, DAP will handle the media recording
... we could get inspiration from them
<fjh> 2nd Last Call DOM Events, end 28 June
fjh: DOM3 Events LC
... any other announcements?
darobin: web perf WG is about to release couple of things
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 25 May 2011 are approved
fjh: I sent some comments
<fjh> comments, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0070.html
DKA: thanks for inviting me to call in
DKA: I discussed the draft with people in this group and in Geolocation WG and WebApps WG as well last your at the TPAC meeting
... Web App Data Minimization is a working title
... it's about data minimization really
<dom> "Data minimization in Web APIs"
DKA: the topic spun off of the privacy workshop held in London last year
... we were trying to figure out what TAG could do to help in this space
... another WS in Boston was held between IAD? and W3C where we pondered the Privacy by Design concept
... it is more concrete concept if applied to (web) services
... I took an action to talk about the general principles, and how it applied to API design on the Web
... it is one concrete essential thing we can do, from TAG perspective
... any feedback is useful, schedule: will deliver the next draft by the end of this week
... will discuss the draft at the TAG F2F next week in Boston
... any feedback sent asap will likely make it into the TAG F2F meeting
... that's all folks
fjh: promoting best practices like this is a good idea
... any comments?
DKA: the doc will become a TAG finding
... or a TAG Note
... preference: TAG finding
... personal preference
<fjh> +1 to promoting data minimization within W3C and broader community
DKA: would like it to be a checklist to check against
fjh: I think creating something around data minimization is useful, but creating a bigger framework would easily get complex
DKA: agreed, will start small and let it grow organically
<Zakim> darobin, you wanted to explain things a bit
DKA: diff TAG Note TAG Finding
... I think it could be said that TAG Finding represents something that's part of the Web Arch
... more substantial than TAG Notes
... like WG Notes
... TAG FIndings are not RECs
Dom: one of the open questions for me is, which APIs would be affected by this
... would this apply to Geoloc WG deliverables
... data from sensors vs. user data
DKA: cannot diff between data from sensors v. private data
<fjh> reminder of fingerprinting based on sensor and other information makes most information private in that sense
DKA: any data that may interact with UAs
Dom: how this principle would apply to accel or battery, for example
DKA: accelerometererometer case: the app should only request info it needs
... the API should not return all the information it has
<dom> Device Orientation spec
DKA: could be sensitive info , e.g. your accelerating might imply you are in a train
... also data related to health info is very sensitive
<fjh> The major issue is combining information, e.g. sensor information along with other information, impact on insurance etc
DKA: e.g. blood pressure sensors
<darobin> [I think that the core issue is to think before you spec]
DKA: more and more sensitive sensors are added, so it is good to get these principles nailed down soon
darobin: battery status obviously is not privacy sensitive, but each sensor would need to be evaluated against these principles
... any other questions for Dan?
... should other WGs be informed of the work?
DKA: e.g. Geolocation WG has privacy on their radar
darobin: mention geopriv and Geoloc WG freaks out
DKA: thanks for your feedback DAP WG!
<fjh> Comments before Last Call, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0061.html (Suresh)
<dom> (my comment on using URLs for ContactField.value is still pending I think too)
richt: Suresh's comments haven't yet been baked in, other comments are in
<fjh> suresh suggests propose to drop the fields 'revision', 'gender' and 'timezone'
darobin: going though fields to be removed, see the discussion on the ML
... Suresh feedback: normative language in non-normative section
<fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: remove fields revision, gender and timezone from contact interface
richt: will fix
RESOLUTION: remove fields revision, gender and timezone from contact interface
richt: much based on vCard and PoCo, not so for CAB
<fjh> an informative reference is not an endorsement
<richt> to be clear, it's not a place to endorse other specifications.
darobin: PoCo needs to be in there, some fields reference it
fjh: having a reference is not an endorsement, harmless to have extra references
<darobin> "All properties included in this interface have a corresponding
<darobin> definition in [POCO-SCHEMA], [IETF vCard], and [OMA CAB], thereby
<darobin> allowing the API to be supported across implementations supporting these
<darobin> various contact formats."
Dom: reference needs to be bound to the actual text to be meaninful in the context of a spec
<richt> will add Suresh's proposed text to the spec
darobin: Suresh's feedback processed
<richt> will drop updatedSince as agreed on mailing list.
<dom> ContactField.value as URLs?
Dom: value props on contact fields should be URLs instead of free-form DOMString
... UA has to normalize the data
richt: would like to keep it as a DOMString, based on implementation experiences so far
dom: having a field which may be free-form or an URL does not help IOP
<dom> dom: maybe we should have both .url and .value properties
darobin: looking at the tel: URI scheme
... to find out if it could work
darobin: e.g. people who might enter phone numbers like above
dom: a picture can be either an URL reference or a base64-encoded data: URI
... if you *can* use URLs then you do use them
darobin: saving back to vCard?
... how does that work out?
dom: we don't have functions for creating contacts
darobin: there's no spec to reference for normalization
<darobin> uri = tel:1234;phone-context=munich.example.com
dom: this is a case we need implementors' feedback
... but this would be the Right Thing to do
<darobin> [are we turning email into mailto: as well?]
richt: personal opinion is this may add too much burden on implementers
... and complexity
... saving back case is an issue too
<darobin> [I see the value in having URIs handy, but it seems like convenience that can be done in script and could be added transparently in v2]
richt: cannot put restrictions on the fields
... at this stage the non-URL way is preferred
dom: picture field can take an URL of the pic, or a base64'd version of it as a data: URI
darobin: I'm fine with pictures
<darobin> current = "a URL to an image resource or base64 encoded string of the image data."
richt: for pictures makes sense, absolutely
<darobin> new = "a URL to an image resource which may be a data: URL."
richt: need to handle this on case by case basis
<dom> and urls?
richt: but for tel it is harder
dom: not sure the proposed new URL JS object is doing normalization as discussed above
richt: two ways: keep DOMString
... base the field on URL, which enforces URL behaviour
<richt> we can base the field on a URL constructor or enforce it on DOMStrings. Both have different implications.
<dom> feedback on contactfield as urls
darobin: return this to the list
... no decision time now it seems
<dom> I was about to say: we're already relying on HTML5, Web IDL, which have schedule problems of their own
<darobin> Agreed upon = 1) dropping gender, timezone, revision; 2) AppB all informative; 3) add Suresh's sentence with OMA CAB; 4) remove updatedSince
richt: pending for a proposal for backwards compatibility?
... delay publishing?
darobin: the URL "spec" is not scheduled for publishing?
darobin: thought WebApps wanted to take it but they couldn't (too many deliverables already)
... TODOs: resolve URL thing, once done LC ready
richt: good for me
<darobin> coordination email to Geo: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0052.html
darobin: not a blocker for LC
<fjh> Editors draft updated, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0057.html (Anssi)
<darobin> AnssiK: I have baked in all the changes
<darobin> AnssiK: if you read this and dislike something, please simply send me email
<darobin> robin: new WD?
<darobin> AnssiK: agreed
<fjh> +1 to updated wd
<wonsuk> +1 for republish updated wd
<dom> ISSUE: Should (some of the) ContactField objects use URLs rather than free-form strings?
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-111 - Should (some of the) ContactField objects use URLs rather than free-form strings? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/111/edit .
<darobin> AnssiK: need to define how events are triggered in such a way that they are testable; express [onbatterystatus event handler] in IDL; and define "immediately" properly
RESOLUTION: New WD heartbeat for Battery, and start preparing for LC afterwards
<darobin> ACTION: Robin to publish Battery heartbeat [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-dap-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Publish Battery heartbeat [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-06-08].
there's the latest ED
darobin: we could publish it right away
... would like people to take a look at it and send their +1s
<dom> +1 on publishing
darobin: if no issues, we'll go to FPWD
<wonsuk> +1 to publish
dom: only issue, privacy sensitive network name
<fjh> No SSID
darobin: should we keep it or remove it?
<fjh> +1 to Dom, removing the privacy sensitive item
dom: prefer to remove networkName
<darobin> ACTION: Robin to remove networkName from Netinfo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-dap-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Remove networkName from Netinfo [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-06-08].
darobin: happy to remove it
<darobin> ACTION: Robin to move NetInfo to FPWD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-dap-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-405 - Move NetInfo to FPWD [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-06-08].
darobin: heads up
... no feedback so far
<fjh> ACTION: fjh to review feature request access containers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-dap-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-406 - Review feature request access containers [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2011-06-08].
AnssiK: any discussion on moz labs?
darobin: not much in public, some private
... also discussed in web security
<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0064.html (Dom)
<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011May/0065.html (Wonsuk)
darobin: discussed in HTML WG
... also feedback / questions from Wonsuk
Wonsuk: the scope of the capture would need to be clarified
... will come back later
darobin: any other specs?
<darobin> RRSAgent: stop