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Re: What we voted on at the f2f

From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider <pfpschneider@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:47:40 -0700
Message-ID: <55141C0C.8070709@gmail.com>
To: kcoyle@kcoyle.net, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org
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I guess you mean that the undesirable goal is to have SHACL based on SPARQL,
no matter whether this is reasonable or not. I certainly never have thought
this way.

As far as I am concerned the rationale for basing the meaning of SHACL on
SPARQL is that
- - SPARQL is a standard
- - a lot of SPARQL has a well-defined declarative specification
- - SPARQL is suitable for the task
- - SPARQL has high-quality implementations which can be leveraged in an
implementation of SHACL

Yes, my basing of SHACL on SPARQL does affect my thinking on what constructs
should be in SHACL, but this is only one of a number of metrics that I use
to determine what I think should be in SPARQL.

peter


On 03/26/2015 07:32 AM, Karen Coyle wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/24/15 10:18 AM, Irene Polikoff wrote:
> 
>> 
>> However, of course, once one defines the meaning of SHACL vocabulary 
>> using SPARQL, they are half way (not all the way though) to the 
>> implementation because SPARQL is executable. Thus, the view that SHACL 
>> specification describes SPARQL-based implementation does have some 
>> grounds. It is not a goal in itself, but a by-product of using SPARQL 
>> to define the meaning.
> 
> I'm fine with "however" as long as it remains a by-product, but it does 
> at times seem to be treated as an actual goal. That is, I believe, the 
> crux of the issue.
> 
> kc
> 
>> 
>> Irene
>> 
>> On 3/24/15, 1:04 PM, "Karen Coyle" <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> We clearly have different interpretations of the meaning of our vote 
>>> at the face-to-face, which was:
>>> 
>>> RESOLUTION: Define semantics using SPARQL as much as possible
>>> 
>>> My view may be naive, but I took this to mean that the specification
>>>  would use SPARQL as the "abstract language" to define the meaning
>>> of the SHACL vocabulary. The minutes of the f2f show that the vote
>>> was taken in the context of a discussion of the "normative
>>> expression" for SHACL, and a "formalism." Others suggested included
>>> the use of Z as a formalism, but that didn't get much traction.
>>> 
>>> There is another view, which is that the SHACL specification 
>>> describes a SPARQL implementation, although other implementations
>>> are not excluded. This view treats the specification as a description
>>> of the SPARQL implementation, referring to it as a "built-in"
>>> language for SHACL. In this view, there is no "abstract language"
>>> formally defining SHACL.
>>> 
>>> I see a rather large gap between using SPARQL as a formalism in the 
>>> specification, and assuming that the SHACL standard is a SPARQL 
>>> implementation. In fact, I don't think that we made a decision as to 
>>> the implementation of SHACL or to any stated relationship between 
>>> SHACL as a specification and any particular implementations of 
>>> SHACL.
>>> 
>>> However, as I said, my view may be naive, but I wonder if we can't 
>>> clarify at least what we voted on at the f2f, since we seem to be 
>>> intoning that vote in our discussion here with at least two different
>>> meanings.
>>> 
>>> kc -- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 
>>> 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Received on Thursday, 26 March 2015 14:48:09 UTC

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