- From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:58:01 +0100
- To: Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@graphity.org>, Arnaud Le Hors <lehors@us.ibm.com>, Holger Knublauch <holger@topquadrant.com>
- Cc: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org, "public-rdf-shapes@w3.org" <public-rdf-shapes@w3.org>
OK Martynas, but does that imply the HTTP GET I'm after as well? On 07/08/2015 17:55, Martynas Jusevičius wrote: > Phil, > > why are you basing your design on the namespace URI? I think a more > semantic way would be to allow all values of ?concept, where ?concept > rdfs:isDefinedBy ?ontology, and ?ontology is the vocabulary you want to use. > > > Martynas > graphityhq.com > > On Fri 7 Aug 2015 at 18:48 Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for the replies everyone. >> >> Hmm... templates, special code, DIY... Meh. In short, the use case is >> not covered out of the box. >> >> To be useful, I'd expect the validator to go and fetch the SKOS concept >> scheme and check that the value of a property is valid. So I guess the >> questions would be: >> >> 1. Does the URI given as the value of a property dereference? >> 2. Does the type of that resource match what I expect (is it typed as a >> SKOS Concept in this case). >> >> Of course, that's a heavy burden, I well understand that, and the burden >> may be more than is needed in many cases, and too much in others, but >> authoritative lists of allowed values are not uncommon. >> >> If this is out of scope for the work, OK, that's my answer. If the >> answer is "you can bolt something on the side that does it" then, well, >> I'd likely not bother with the bolt and just do it myself anyway - which >> kind of defeats the object. >> >> Karen's Use Case 37 does indeed seem very similar and, yes, SHACL has >> regEx matching, enumerated lists and so on, so a lot of what I'm asking >> can be done - and that may be sufficient (or that may have to be >> sufficient), but without fetching the authoritative list of allowed >> values from an external source, the issue of synchronising will always >> come up. >> >> I should indeed have some test data imminently, if it's wanted. >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil. >> >> PS. I'm very likely to join the f2f in Lille next month as I'll be >> passing through on my way home from Brussels. Looking forward to >> catching up with the wider work of the group. >> >> On 05/08/2015 01:01, Holger Knublauch wrote: >>> This is correct and thanks for highlighting this. I wanted to be brief >>> and could elaborate or even implement the template as an example. I was >>> hoping that my statement "using a template" would have been sufficiently >>> clear, but maybe it wasn't. Yes, there needs to be at least one person >>> on the planet, knowledgeable of SPARQL and SHACL, who needed this >>> feature to cast it into a template and publish it for everyone else to >> use. >>> >>> (BTW I later noticed that the original requirement may have been about >>> checking for the presence of URIs in a certain named graph. In that >>> case, the SPARQL GRAPH keyword could be used, assuming the named graphs >>> are present in the same dataset, or SERVICE for external graphs. There >>> are all kinds of variations here, which is why my inclination is to >>> leave this as an opportunity for third-party templates, not the core >>> language.) >>> >>> Regards, >>> Holger >>> >>> >>> On 8/5/2015 9:29, Arnaud Le Hors wrote: >>>> Holger, >>>> >>>> I think we ought to clarify that what you present here isn't all it >>>> takes because it relies on having shx:allowedValueNamespaces defined >>>> somewhere, presumably using the SPARQL extension. >>>> >>>> I know you wrote "an end-user syntax" and the implication is that some >>>> advanced-user has defined such a template for the end-user but we need >>>> to be careful not to set the wrong expectation. >>>> >>>> Regards. >>>> -- >>>> Arnaud Le Hors - Senior Technical Staff Member, Open Web Technologies >>>> - IBM Software Group >>>> >>>> >>>> Holger Knublauch <holger@topquadrant.com> wrote on 08/03/2015 03:29:13 >>>> PM: >>>> >>>>> From: Holger Knublauch <holger@topquadrant.com> >>>>> To: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org, "public-rdf-shapes@w3.org" >>>>> <public-rdf-shapes@w3.org> >>>>> Date: 08/03/2015 03:30 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: SKOS concept scheme URIs as values for constraints >>>>> >>>>> This could be represented in SHACL using a template, with an end-user >>>>> syntax such as >>>>> >>>>> ex:MyShape >>>>> a sh:Shape ; >>>>> sh:property [ >>>>> a shx:AllowedValueNamespacesConstraint ; >>>>> sh:predicate ps:siteDesignation ; >>>>> shx:allowedValueNamespaces ( >>>>> "http://inspire.ec.europa.eu/codelist/DesignationValue/" ) ; >>>>> sh:valueClass skos:Concept ; >>>>> ] . >>>>> >>>>> In the above scenario I am assuming that the algorithm will check that >>>>> all values of the given property must be URIs starting with one of the >>>>> enumerated strings (using STRSTARTS in SPARQL). It would not go to the >>>>> web to check whether there is actually a Graph at that namespace - >> this >>>>> would be outside of what SPARQL can do right now. >>>>> >>>>> I cannot comment on whether this particular pattern should become part >>>>> of the Core vocabulary too, but the whole point of the extension >>>>> mechanism is to allow anyone to represent and publish their own >>>> favorite >>>>> constraint design patterns, so that they don't rely on the choices >> made >>>>> by a particular working group in the year 2015. >>>>> >>>>> Holger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8/4/2015 5:39, Karen Coyle wrote: >>>>>> Phil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for bringing this up. I thought that I had covered this in >> use >>>>>> case #34 [1], and at one point I asked if all of these criteria were >>>>>> met by the requirements and I was assured that they were. This is a >>>>>> key use case for the cultural heritage community, so if there are >> any >>>>>> doubts that these requirements can be met we need to address this. >>>>>> Perhaps the was to resolve this is to provide test cases. There seem >>>>>> to be some functional versions of SHACL that could be used to test >>>>>> this, if I'm not mistaken. Would you be able to provide some test >>>> data? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> kc >>>>>> [1] >>>>>> http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/data-shapes-ucr/#uc37-defining- >>>>> allowed-required-values >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/3/15 9:48 AM, Phil Archer wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've had an opportunity to take a look at the SHACL work today and >> I >>>>>>> notice one of the use cases looks set to be missed - although >>>> only just. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The UCR doc includes the one about self-describing Linked Data >>>> [1] which >>>>>>> talks about the value of a property being a skos:Concept. Are you >>>>>>> considering making this a little tougher, i.e. that the value of >>>> a given >>>>>>> property is a concept defined in a specific scheme? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see that SHACL allows the enumeration of values [2], but I want >>>> to be >>>>>>> able to say "any value from the SKOS Concept scheme at <foo>". It >>>> looks >>>>>>> like SHACL won't support that? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Use Case: INSPIRE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> INSPIRE [0] - the European Union's obligatory set of standards for >>>>>>> environmental and geospatial data - has a handy registry of SKOS >>>> concept >>>>>>> schemes [3]. In one of my projects, I've been working on creating >>>> RDF >>>>>>> vocabularies that are compatible with the INSPIRE data model, >>>> such as >>>>>>> the one about protected sites [4]. That has a property >>>>>>> ps:siteDesignation for which the range is defined as skos:Concept >>>> but >>>>>>> really what it should say is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the value of this property should be a skos:Concept in the scheme >> at >>>>>>> http://inspire.ec.europa.eu/codelist/DesignationValue/. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It would be inappropriate to enumerate the concepts in that concept >>>>>>> scheme (there are 6 of them) since it is under a different >>>>>>> organisation's change control. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I recognise that this leads to the possibility that a graph that is >>>>>>> valid today may become invalid if the INSPIRE Registry were to be >>>>>>> amended but that's a management task for the European Commission to >>>>>>> worry about (i.e. the people responsible for the INSPIRE data >>>> model) and >>>>>>> they would need to be mindful of such situations which would occur >>>>>>> whether we were talking about RDF graphs or dollops of GML, so I >>>> don't >>>>>>> think that's a show stopper here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [0] http://inspire.ec.europa.eu/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/data-shapes-ucr/#uc28-self- >>>>> describing-linked-data-resources >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>> http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/ >>>>> #AbstractAllowedValuesPropertyConstraint >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [3] http://inspire.ec.europa.eu/registry/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [4] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/inspire/ps >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> Phil Archer >> W3C Data Activity Lead >> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/ >> >> http://philarcher.org >> +44 (0)7887 767755 >> @philarcher1 >> >> > -- Phil Archer W3C Data Activity Lead http://www.w3.org/2013/data/ http://philarcher.org +44 (0)7887 767755 @philarcher1
Received on Friday, 7 August 2015 16:57:58 UTC