- From: Gérard Talbot <css21testsuite@gtalbot.org>
- Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:50:19 -0700
- To: "Arron Eicholz" <Arron.Eicholz@microsoft.com>
- Cc: "Public CSS test suite mailing list" <public-css-testsuite@w3.org>
Le Mer 31 août 2011 11:36, Arron Eicholz a écrit : > On Monday, February 21, 2011 12:36 PM Gérard Talbot wrote: >> The text assertions of the testcases Updated list of links [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-001.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-001.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-002.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-002.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-003.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-003.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-004.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-004.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-005.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-005.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-006.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-006.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-007.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-007.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-008.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-008.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-009.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-009.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-010.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-010.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-012.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-012.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-013.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-013.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-014.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-014.htm [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-015.htm [nightly-unstable] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-015.htm >> each and all say that list-style-position applies to any/all elements with >> display set to other than list-item but that's not true. Arron, I can not be wrong on this: I see 'list-style-position' Applies to: elements with 'display: list-item' http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style-position Those >> testcases test the >> inheritability/inheritance of list-style-position and not its >> effective >> applicability. The text assertion of these >> list-style-position-applies-to-* confuse inheritance and >> applicability. > They may be testing that the inheritance works as well but they also test that the list-style-position set on the particular elements actually works. I have huge difficulties and incomfort with the assert of those testcases (and maybe some other applies-to testcases). Just imagine ordinary we author "Joe Schmuck" reading the spec and giving a trial to those testcases. On one hand, he reads 'list-style-position' Value: inside | outside | inherit Initial: outside Applies to: elements with 'display: list-item' Inherited: yes Percentages: N/A Media: visual Computed value: as specified http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style-position and then he reads the text asserts of those tests and even sees a bullet everywhere in testcases 001 to 015 ! Such web author will for sure be confused, puzzled! e.g. <meta name="assert" content="The 'list-style-position' property applies to elements with 'display' set to 'table-column'."> from [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-006.htm and that collides with, contradicts many statements in the spec. > If it is correctly set and inherited correctly to the > point where it is proven by the test then the test is valid and that is > what I am seeing right now. >> If an element does not have, does not render a list-item, then >> list-style- >> position can not apply to it. > That is not true every property applies to every element at all times. I think the spec may create or may contribute to create a confusion. It is reasonable to presume that "applies-to" means applies to in a normal sentence, just like outside the spec! I think the spec is saying that each element in the created DOM tree has every property and therefore a (initial or inherited) value related to it (or every property is being assigned with a [initial or inherited] value). But it does not necessarly has a rendering effect on it. Even if all "Applies to:" field in property definition of CSS 2.1 were to be changed to "Has a rendering affect on:", the text assert of list-style-position-applies-to-001.htm to list-style-position-applies-to-015.htm would still be inappropriate in my opinion. In 2 distinct parts of the spec [2], [3], the verb "assign" is used which, I think, is there to replace "applies to" reference. [2]: 3.2 Conformance " 4. For each element in a document tree, it must assign a value for every property according to the property's definition (...) " http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#conformance [3] 6.1 Specified, computed, and actual values " Once a user agent has parsed a document and constructed a document tree, it must assign, for every element in the tree, a value to every property that applies to the target media type. " http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#value-stages > It has to for inheritance to work properly. The application of a property from the applies-to definition is trying to communicate that if > a property does not apply then the property is reset to the initial value when specified on that type of element. > No changes should be made to these files in my opinion I hope you can reconsider. My initial and still-today feeling is that an ordinary web author should read the text assert and then better understand what is really, truly and actually being tested in a testcase. <meta name="assert" content="The 'list-style-position' property applies to elements with 'display' set to 'table-column'."> from [RC6] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-006.htm is not what that testcase is actually doing, testing, achieving. Arron, there maybe some other applies-to testcases from Microsoft which have, share the same text assert that I find unfit, inappropriate. [Addendum] Another thing I just noticed. If what you wrote here is true, then there would be many applies-to testcases from Microsoft to fix. I'm thinking of caption-side-applies-to testcases here. > since they are > testing the applies-to as best as they can and still be valid test cases. [1]: 1.4.2.3 Applies to " This part lists the elements to which the property applies. All elements are considered to have all properties, but some properties have no rendering effect on some types of elements. " http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/list-style-position-applies-to-011.htm [2]: 3.2 Conformance " 4. For each element in a document tree, it must assign a value for every property according to the property's definition (...) " http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#conformance [3] 6.1 Specified, computed, and actual values " Once a user agent has parsed a document and constructed a document tree, it must assign, for every element in the tree, a value to every property that applies to the target media type. " http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#value-stages regards, Gérard -- Contributions to the CSS 2.1 test suite: http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/css21testsuite/ CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011 http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/toc.html CSS 2.1 test suite harness: http://test.csswg.org/harness/
Received on Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:50:50 UTC