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Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-lists-3][css-pseudo-4] Does text-transform inherit to ::marker? (#4206)

From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 16:57:31 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-658881841-1594832248-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-lists-3][css-pseudo-4] Does text-transform inherit to ::marker?`, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: add ::marker { text-transform: none; } to UA stylesheet, at least for now`
* `RESOLVED: text-transform applies to ::marker`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;dael> Topic:  [css-lists-3][css-pseudo-4] Does text-transform inherit to ::marker?<br>
&lt;dael> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4206<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: One browser blocks inheritance of list marker<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Blocking text-tranform makes sense. ::marker means UA should set text-transform:none and author can set to inherit. But default it should not inherit.<br>
&lt;florian> +1<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: I want to go through text-transform before other properties<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> +1 to text-transform<br>
&lt;dael> oriol: Not sure I agree. test-transform applies to text like color. If you set color it's inherit, why should text-transform be different? For ::before and ::after it inherits. If you set something case sensitive you would close it. Why should marker be different<br>
&lt;Rossen_> q?<br>
&lt;dael> florian: In general we don't know if text is case sensitive but we do know markers are<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Agree with fantasai and florian where we have 2 pairs of markers that are explicitly case sensitive. Having text-transform for in is likely unitnentional. Having it automatically it may make it confusing to read. Should be allowed to set<br>
&lt;dauwhe> q+<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Can also be semantic where nested lists have some upper and some lower and then they're referenced in other parts of text. If you transform the case it breaks the link. THe default would be safer if we don't have this inherit by default<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: I think some question if the thing is markers or counter references<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: I think the thing we're talking about is references to counters which are lower-roman, upper-roman. If we were to have a feature for counter references then the thing we want to not be transformed is the counter reference.<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: If rule in css is the counter references are not text transformed there's no way for author to say they really do want.<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: INteresting point. Advocate a separate issue for that. In meantime set text-transform to none so we get markers as defined today<br>
&lt;florian> +1<br>
&lt;dauwhe> q-<br>
&lt;dael> dauwhe: Author PoV I found it surprising that i do something to list item and changes list numbering<br>
&lt;dael> oriol: Should we allow it to list of properties allowed in markers so authors can set to inherit?<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Yes, that's part of proposal<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Nearing a resolution. Other questions or PoV?<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: If not I'll ask if there are objections.<br>
&lt;dael> oriol: Should we discuss other properties in issue? Text-indent seems more obvious<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Let's not all properties together. Let's do one and move to next<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Unless you think they're linked.<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Do you believe they should be linked?<br>
&lt;dael> oriol: Independent<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Objections?<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: text-transform is #4558<br>
&lt;dael> florian: You mean text-indent?<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Where should the resolution go?<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Here.<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/text-transform/text-indent/<br>
&lt;dael> text-indent is separate<br>
&lt;fantasai> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4206<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: I think at some poitn there was sumamry of existing impl<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: Trying to understand that state<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Top of issue<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: Claim Gecko blocks inheritence of text-transform. Do we support text-transform:inherit?<br>
&lt;dael> oriol: In chromium markers if you use content:normal it uses ns bullet which doesn't support text-transform. Content to something different than normal it's a different box and it inherits like Chromium. If you set it to something else it will also do that<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: I think implication is trying to resolve on something done by some impl. I don't think that's the case<br>
&lt;oriol> s/In chromium/In Gecko<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: I think there's some spec in what's impl. Effect on existing pages...features where we don't have the behavior are new and not much used. Discussion in the issue but I concluded we shoudl block text-transform on markers<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: Rather than say it doesn't apply to counter references<br>
&lt;oriol> s/ns bullet/nsBulletFrame<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Until that's defined I think it's important to not establish a precedence in the majority of cases with markers<br>
&lt;dael> dbaron: Okay<br>
&lt;dbaron> (I think I probably prefer tying this to counters than to markers, but I don't object.)<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Going back, any new objections from this conversation?<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> I could see a list style that's like "First: ", "Second: ", etc., which is fine to text-transform and probably *expected* to respond to that. Maybe this does need to go into the @counter-style definition, like dbaron's earlier comments suggested...<br>
&lt;fantasai> RESOLVED: add ::marker { text-transform: none; } to UA stylesheet, at least for now<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins, dbaron: yeah, I could live with that... but I'm not sure how we're going to make that work yet, and until we do I think this is a good move<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Next set of properties in the issue?<br>
&lt;fantasai> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4568<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Separate issue open which is #4568 which discusses all properties<br>
&lt;fantasai> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4568#issuecomment-562734422<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: I suggest we continue there.<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: My take is we need to define what is inherited through ::marker vs properties that are for paragraph or line box. Properties for block containers shouldn't be for ::marker. Once we define the interesting question is if word-spacing or letter-spacing is also reset.<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Not sure we should take it now.<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Given resolution we took I think we need to say text-transform applies to ::marker<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Sure<br>
&lt;dael> florian: We said we'd put the property in the UA stylesheet without saying to property applies<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Does it apply to marker or text. Need clarity<br>
&lt;dael> florian: That is applies somehow needs to be resolved<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Sure<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: What's the proposa?<br>
&lt;dael> florian: text-transform applies to ::marker<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: Thoughts or objections?<br>
&lt;dael> RESOLVED: text-transform applies to ::marker<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: fantasai you asked if we should open #4568 about which properties reset?<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: I think today we should move on<br>

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Received on Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:57:33 UTC

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