- From: Jori Lehtinen <lehtinenjori03@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2026 14:28:39 +0200
- To: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Cc: NIKOLAOS FOTIOY <fotiou@aueb.gr>, Filip Kolarik <filip26@gmail.com>, public-credentials <public-credentials@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAA6zkAufnqids-Dim4qcyBHsWwea2NjmxouDyWaCw9mqW0A=ig@mail.gmail.com>
EU folks, I wanted to simplify why I dislike the idea of requiring audited, certified crypto hardware authorized by a commission and listed on a “list of lists”. There are obvious reasons—like how inconvenient it is for me as someone trying to provide solutions in this field—but there are also real concerns: Here’s the deal: While these practices can indeed be very secure—and can ensure proper operational management, incident handling, etc.—what I cannot verify does not add trust to a transaction. I can verify that a request came from a certified origin by looking up verification material from a list of lists, and given that those origins have strict legal requirements, that indicates plausible trust. But it does not verify that the actions creating the trust were actually performed. Compare this to my example, where the relying party—the one that needs trust—can always verify the things their trust relies on: - The machine acting as a digital proxy for an individual can verify that the wallet works as it should (for example: the distribution is signed and verified; the standardized code always requires frontend user verification for anything sensitive; and it provides direct programmatic access only to encrypted values for seamless backup, etc.). - Signatures made with a key derived from a physical ID, uploaded verifiably in the wallet, can always be verified by anyone they are presented to via a jurisdiction-specific registry holding the verification material and PID relevant in the given jurisdiction. - Courts/jurisdictions set the standard for what must be verifiable, but a globally recognized and supported blockchain keeps custody of verification material—so, for example: a public key and PID + an event log corresponding to a physical ID. - When contracts are signed, it is up to the liable party to take care of the contract, because they want to be able to show: “This other person signed the contract.” These principles are interoperable for any data and could operate on global technical standards, with jurisdiction-specific nuance on what must be verifiable for something to be legally binding. Decentralization like this works because everyone is responsible for (and incentivized to fulfill) their own role for their own protection, and everything is mathematically verifiable end-to-end—so any relying party can verify what they specifically need to trust. Now, there is probably/hopefully a tamper-evident history/log on the TSP and other “list of lists” members that they must be able to present in court. But they are still a single point of failure, making the system less reliable for an individual’s legal safety. What I would like to understand is: what exactly is the mechanism that ensures the event log presented in court by a TSP is tamper-evident? In my suggestion, this would perhaps be a central, audited, global blockchain holding the verification material—a centralized trusted entity, with a distributed system holding replicas and creating consensus. Then you have a decentralized, fully distributed set of actors holding the signatures that matter for their own legal safety. And the blockchain is supported by anyone who wants to contribute to the general trustworthiness of verification. Tell me if I’m wrong, but in EUDI/eIDAS the legal safety of individuals depends on the good will of the TSPs—because how do you audit or prove a total system swap, or a total history rewrite, especially when they hold both the signatures and the verification material? This is exactly why some of us consider many of those grand statements and audit groups, etc., to be security theater. Because some of us understand: TRUST FROM WHAT YOU CANNOT VERIFY IS NOT TRUST — IT IS CONVINCING (VIA A THEATER DISPLAYING: LOOK HOW MUCH WE ARE DOING). I’m not trying to demonize the legislation or say the EU is bad, but you have to admit that the trust is, at best, plausible—and that it serves the legal system and well-funded private-sector actors first. Compared to my suggestion, where trust is always mathematically verifiable to those that rely on it, and it serves individuals first, allowing real competition and innovation by treating legally binding signatures as an open primitive that anyone can build on. It is also far more cost-effective, etc. The list of pros a system like that has is massive. Regards, Jori
Received on Sunday, 15 February 2026 12:28:57 UTC