[MINUTES] CCG Atlantic 2026-04-14

This meeting of the CCG Atlantic featured a detailed presentation by Frank
Sanborn on "Social Fabric," a project aimed at building a decentralized
trust infrastructure for community resilience. Sanborn discussed the
project's origins in disaster response, its focus on local relevance, and
its technological underpinnings, including verifiable credentials, ODRL,
ZCAP, and HoloChain. The discussion also touched upon the project's
ambitious vision for long-term community support, livelihood creation, and
a permaculture-inspired trust model. Attendees engaged with Frank on
specific aspects of the implementation, such as on-the-spot verification
and audit trails, and the challenges of standardization in the current
landscape. The meeting concluded with an invitation for collaboration and
support for the Social Fabric project.

*Topics Covered:*

   - *Introduction to Social Fabric:* Frank Sanborn introduced Social
   Fabric as a civic trust coordination and livelihood substrate designed to
   transform fragmented survival into coordinated tending, emphasizing its
   local relevance and ability to function when traditional infrastructure
   fails.
   - *Disaster Response and Community Resilience:* Sanborn shared personal
   experiences from disaster response, highlighting the critical role of
   local, community-led efforts and the importance of communication and
   coordination, using the Red Hook neighborhood as a prime example.
   - *Technological Stack and Verifiable Credentials:* The core of the
   presentation focused on Social Fabric's use of verifiable credentials, Open
   Digital Rights Language (ODRL), ZCAP (Zero-Knowledge Proofs for Access
   Control Policies), and HoloChain as a secure, distributed trust substrate
   for managing information governance and policy.
   - *Trust Zone Architecture:* A permaculture-inspired "trust zone"
   architecture was presented, which defines relationships and access levels
   between people, devices, and places, allowing for granular control and
   mediation of trust.
   - *Physical Product Management and IoT Integration:* The system's
   capability to manage physical products, build IoT devices, and integrate
   with platforms like ESPHome and Home Assistant was discussed, extending the
   trust model to tangible goods and smart devices.
   - *Long-Term Vision and Cooperative Model:* Sanborn outlined a
   multi-horizon vision for Social Fabric, aiming to foster a cooperative
   owned by its users and developers, and to support organizations in managing
   land and people through scalable services.
   - *Implementation Challenges and Standardization:* Sanborn acknowledged
   the "wild west" nature of current standardization efforts, particularly
   with ZCAPs and ODRL, and discussed the ongoing work to align definitions
   and integrate these technologies effectively.
   - *Focus on Human Relationships and Paper-Based Systems:* A strong
   emphasis was placed on technology serving human relationships, with a
   recognition that paper-based systems and direct human interaction remain
   crucial, especially in disaster scenarios.

*Action Items:*

   - Frank Sanborn will be sharing the website for Social Fabric and is
   seeking collaborators and contributors.
   - Phillip Long will follow up with Frank Sanborn regarding potential
   connections with the US Chamber of Commerce and businesses in
   disaster-affected areas.
   - Kaliya Identity Woman will follow up with Frank Sanborn to discuss
   potential collaborations and the "First Person Project."
   - Kaliya Identity Woman will explore the possibility of Frank Sanborn
   attending the Internet Identity Workshop in two weeks.

Text: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-atlantic-2026-04-14.md

Video: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-atlantic-2026-04-14.mp4
*CCG Atlantic - 2026/04/14 11:57 EDT - Transcript* *Attendees*

Alex Higuera, Benjamin Young, Brent Zundel, Day Waterbury, Dmitri
Zagidulin, Erica Connell, Frank Sanborn, Greg Bernstein, Gregory Natran,
Harrison Tang, Hiroyuki Sano, Ivan Dzheferov, JeffO - HumanOS, Kaliya
Identity Woman, Phillip Long, Rob Padula, Ted Thibodeau Jr, Will Abramson
*Transcript*

Will Abramson: Welcome everybody. we'll give folks a couple of minutes to
get started.

Will Abramson: Okay, I'm going to get us started and let folks trickle in.
So, welcome everyone to today's credentials community group Today we're
joined by Frank Sandborn. He's going to talk to us about EC implementations
in the community resiliency project. before I get into that, before I hand
over to Frank, we'll just run through the standard agenda introduction
points. So, first we are a W3C community group and we follow the W3C code
of ethics and professional conduct.

Will Abramson: So just a reminder to folks that to continue to make this
community group a warm and welcoming place for others. And if you haven't
read the code of ethics recently, I encourage you to do Second IP note. So
anyone is welcome to participate in these calls. However, substantiative
contributors to any CCG work items must be members of the CCG with full IPR
agreements signed. You have any questions about that? reach out to me or
any of the other chairs. Happy to help Third, they're recorded by Google
Meet and then transcribed as well.
00:05:00

Will Abramson: and are made available 24 hours after the call or through an
email on the mailing list. So, if you're not a member of the mailing list
and you want to access these calls, I recommend you sign up for the mailing
list. next, introductions and reintroductions. Is anyone new to the call
today wants to introduce themselves to the community or hasn't said hello
in a while, like saying hi? You're welcome. Okay, not seeing anyone
announcements and Anyone have any announcements or reminders they want to
share with the community today? Okay, I'm not hearing any.

Will Abramson: I guess I'll say one thing about this LLMs and agent usage
thread I'm not fully up to speed with the latest but I think it's been a
great conversation and the chairs will be discussing what if any action we
want to propose to the group in the coming weeks. I don't know if anyone
wants to share anything from that conversation that come up for them on the
call today, but yeah, I encourage folks to read it and share their opinions
and we'll definitely taking them into account. So, thank you for that.
Finally, work items. I'm guessing no, that's man is the one who pushes
this, but does anyone have any updates from any of the various work items
going on at the CCG?

Will Abramson: I guess I will note what manner would typically be saying
that many of the CCT work items or they items have now transitioned across
to the VC working group and I think many of them have the same call time.
So if you were participating them under the CCG, I believe you are still
welcome to participate in these work items. However, you need to be a
member of the verifiable credentials working group.

Will Abramson: Yeah, that's all to say on that, I think. okay, great. Not
hearing anyone else on the queue, so I'll hand over to you, Frank.

Frank Sanborn: Thank you.

Frank Sanborn: Hello My name is Frank Samborn. I'm the founder, architect,
and steward of Social Fabric, which I'm going to be talking to you about
today. this project started from my own personal journey of disasters and
responding to them starting at my home and then as my career and transition
moved on.

Frank Sanborn: I got to go back to DC and be an innovation fellow with FEMA
and Health and Human Services during Hurricane Sandy where I was sent to
New York and I found all the different people who are already in their
neighborhoods and helping people and my job was to give them the supplies
they needed to help their community more. And this really cemented in this
fact that after disaster there's always people who show up and help take
care of the community as part of their own process of dealing with the
trauma that they u are encountering. as every disaster is local and it's
extremely personal whether that's a individual a family or community
disaster.

Frank Sanborn: people living through it. it's a very intimate destructive
event that takes about a decade for people to recover fully. and if they
don't recover within a decade then they typically will not recover to the
same level that they're at for the disaster statistically speaking. but
what this experience in disaster response has brought me is that in order
to have a model that we can actually have out in the world, we needed a
model that's locally relevant supports local people and can be around when
all the infrastructure goes away.

Frank Sanborn: there's no cell phones, there's no power, there's none of
our common infrastructure, including water systems and such as that.
Depending upon the disaster, most time water is contaminated and so you
won't have fresh water for a while. and I actually have a presentation
here. and so I should probably jump into that. And let's see that. And,
Oops. I think I need to figure out how to share this. So, we go. And I
encourage people to take notes and ask questions as we come along.
00:10:00

Frank Sanborn: I'm going to be ask questions and take notes. I'm going to
be covering a lot of material in here. this is kind of a big project and I
have a half hour and you guys are my first test on this. So, I'm going to
try to move quickly and give you guys a sense of what we're doing and how
we're using verifiable credentials to create a trust infrastructure for
people, places, devices, services, and things. Okay, hopefully you guys can
see the presentation Can you guys see it?

Will Abramson: We could see it,…

Will Abramson: but it's not in presentation mode. Might be helpful…

Frank Sanborn: Okay, let's Yeah,…

Will Abramson: if you slideshow it.

Frank Sanborn: let me see…

Frank Sanborn: how to do that. Go. Okay, can you guys see that now?
Awesome. Okay.

Will Abramson: Yeah. Yeah,…

Will Abramson: that's good.

Frank Sanborn: So, I'm just going to kind of like, the real problem that I
came across in my fellowship with in the HHS entrepreneurs program is that
after disaster, people look to take care of themselves and their families.
If they need power, they're going to go to some place that has power.

Frank Sanborn: And a big part of my fellowship was trying to help
decompress the medical system and how do we help people help people instead
of the government helping people because the government will never scale.
so through this stuff what I've really learned is vulnerable populations
they fall through the cracks. communications, power, logistics all kind of
fall apart. the formal response is kind of disconnected from what the needs
are of the individuals because local response is responding to the incident
and not to the people. and that communication is a gamecher.

Frank Sanborn: having the ability to set up and communicate what your needs
are or what's going on changes the game completely. And so that is
definitely what I learned. And then some simple coordination can really
help communities come together. And one of the communities that I visited
in New York was the Red Hook neighborhood. and they are my kind of gold
standard for what you can do after a disaster. And what they did is in the
first 72 hours, they did a door-to-d dooror census of over 14,000
households, homes, apartments, whatever inside of the Red Hook neighborhood
and did a door-to-d dooror census. And they asked everyone there said, "Can
you get out and can you get supplies? Can you get food? How's your medical?"

Frank Sanborn: and they created a homebound program where they delivered
two hot meals and any supplies to anyone in the neighborhood that needed
it. And along with this, they did a health check. And so they would monitor
individuals health. And if someone was declining in health, they'll send in
a homebound medic team, which is typically made up of a doctor or nurse or
a combination thereof. typically speaking, when you go out into the field,
you always have a minimum of two people with you, just in case, something
happens, you need support. inside of the Red Hook neighborhood.

Frank Sanborn: I spent a bunch of time and one of the things that I set I
helped them set up their community Wi-Fi mesh network that was not in
existence before Hurricane Sandy, but it was planned and through one of
their big things that they could not do is get access to the city buildings
to be able to install the hardware. And so with the support that I had in
my role, I was able to make some phone calls and I was able to get some
yeses. And once we got to the yes and within 48 hours, we had 20% of the
neighborhood covered in free Wi-Fi services. though that community mesh
network is still running today.
00:15:00

Frank Sanborn: which is an att testament to how important communication is
and bringing that to the neighborhood. the biggest lesson is that I've
learned through this whole thing and I've done lots of disasters after
that. I've worked with the OSA mudslide here in Washington State. I did a
lot of work down in Paradise, California down in B County. and the biggest
thing that I have learned is that how we get through a disaster is by
tending and that's either by intending ourselves in tending our neighbors
intending our environment. And how you prepare for anything is through
attending. a lot of people are like you can't prepare for everything but
you can prepare for anything.

Frank Sanborn: And how you can work through anything is by taking what I
consider as this process of tending which is putting your love and
intention in and that in your focus and giving back. and so as I've kind of
gone through my different and what I would like to highlight here is that
I've created kind of a three horizon across a seven generation view of what
and this is totally with the help of AI. So this is like me saying, "Hey
AI, let's talk about this project and let's look at it this and you spit
out a blurb for me based upon all of your stuff."

Frank Sanborn: So, this document here, it's not too long, but it gives a
really good, overview of, how a system like this can have long-term
impacts, across a longer distance than, the next quarterly reports. And I'm
very much focused on what is the longer horizons and not necessarily what
the short term so in essence social fabric is a civic trust coordination
and livelihood substrate that turns fragment and survival into coordinated
tending.

Frank Sanborn: And in a nutshell, that's what I've been working on and
created. and there's the technology portion and then there's the social
scale portion. And one of the big things that I've encountered is that
every local community has different needs and different things. And so if
you try to build this giant system that works for everyone, you're going to
have a system that works for no one. and to look at how we become more
local in our world and how we operate which is really from a traditional
standpoint of what our ancestors did.

Frank Sanborn: they lived in a much smaller group settings. And so, from
this arbitrary thing, we've picked zip codes. And so, we would like a lodge
per zip code. And we want to set it up so that lodge is supporting all the
tending activities to support community, individuals, the environment
inside of that zip code. and so this is a way that we can scale our
information governance and keeping it supporting local people. and how we
want to be able to do that is by creating a 501c8 which is a fraternal
lodge organization that requires insurance. and that allows us to be able
to create a container that is local but can support community funds and
being able to support the creation of livelihoods in that zip code.

Frank Sanborn: So now I'm going to jump into the things that you guys
really care about and that is how am I using verifiable credentials and
what are we doing that is unique and so I'm going to talk about our
standard stack. so I come up from in the land in a lifetime long ago I
worked on the CSS 1.0 with HTML 3.2 too kind of dates me, but I've been
working on standards and with standards for a really long time in my
different roles and different things. And so, one of the first things I
said is, "Hey, what's out here and what's going on?" in one of my roles at
Microsoft, I was the program manager in charge of the client portion of the
Windows rights management system. And so, I handled the blackbox crypto
licensing format.

Frank Sanborn: I'm a very familiar in XRML which is extensible rights
markup language and I worked with content guard to work through the
standards process with us as part of what we were working on internally but
there's this great thing that is the standards and the W3C and so as I
started this was actually started with open badges 2.0 know and with VC's
20 at that time open badges 3 has not formally gone through the things and
so when I first started this I started one step back because I wanted to
make sure that I was going to have the most amount of people being able to
handle that since then open badge 3's out which has verifiable credentials
20 and so that's what we're using what we do what we're doing is we're
layering on the open digital rights language on top of that and
00:20:00

Frank Sanborn: that gives us the ability to sign rights, duties, proh
prohibitions, conceptual constraints to any principle in the system. And in
our system, every physical or virtual kind of domain has its own did and it
has its own rights and its own policy and everything is done through the
ch. the next part of our kind of credential stack that we're doing is Zcap.
and what this allows us to be able to do is be able to have a standard way
to delegate authority to bound invocation and do at testation across this
system. on the back end we're using hollow chain and we're using it as a
secure store and a dist distributed trust substrate.

Frank Sanborn: And so we're probably kind of complex in our hollow chain
back end. I think we have 28 zones now. but what that allows us to do is
interact inside the hollow chain community and allows us to be able to
share our work with other people very easily. And the last part of this is
I think one of the most important things is that working in disasters if
you're using a disaster zone becomes a crime scene. And so anything that is
moved or touched or talked about or whatever it needs to be can part of a
chain of custody. And so what we've done in here is that any piece of
content that's created it all has the providence of when it came into the
system and who brought it in and then what rights and usage are associated
with that.

Frank Sanborn: In order to be able to do this we need to be able to create
a trust infrastructure and we found the best way to do that is using the
open matches and VCs so what is governed inside of social fabric unlike a
lot of organization or a lot of systems we govern placebased information we
play we govern work-based people's and organization runtimes and execution
and then we have policy and governance and each of these pieces allows us
to kind of bring a piece of the system together by being placebased. Now we
can visually map and visually show people where different information lives.

Frank Sanborn: work is a collection of items that is published with a
license that can be either a physical good or a service or a physical good.
So in our system you can say I have a recipe to create this physical mug
and once it's created I have all the inventory control to keep track of
that and then I can sell that in my store inside of my thing. So that each
part of this is that people and organizations. And so one of the things
that design decisions that is big piece of social fabric is that we're
really designed for organizations. We believe that organizations know their
people best. And so we want to be able to have a system where organizations
can do that. They're in a system that empowers them to do that.

Frank Sanborn: So we are really a system for organizations that support
people and we support people who support other people and we just kind of
see them as an organization and then the next part is the runtime and
execution. So when you come into a trust system each element of something
that someone is using needs to be part of that trust system. And so in our
system, not just the user has trust, but devices, the operating system, the
applications they use, and the content that is licensed to them, all are
part of this trust relationship and we verify each of those credentials for
each of those devices and things in order to make sure that they are in
compliance.
00:25:00

Frank Sanborn: And the last part of this is that we created this idea of
how do we reproduce this and allow people to share their work. And so this
is all built on this idea of one is recipes. and so we can apply recipes
which contain the policies either at a global or local scale. And an
example of this is that if I'm working with a healthcare client and we need
to make sure that all of our interactions are hypoaco compliant, we can say
that when they set up the organization, they have a global compliance that
everything needs to be HIPO compliant and then we have a recipe that comes
in and sets all that information up and sets up the backend so all that is
secure.

Frank Sanborn: The other parts of the governance and policy is that we
specify people's capabilities. We test and attest each one of those actions
and we do this in a way that is a little bit unique because the internet
may not be around when we need to be able to do an attestation or be able
to verify an individual. our actual command and control plane runs over a
mesh core or meshtastic and then that talks to a local Wi-Fi mesh bubble
that is talking to everyone in the community using web interfaces st shared
state evidence and traceability.

Frank Sanborn: So, we're using Hollow Chain as our backend because it gives
us a way to be able to have a secure store that allows us to be able to
replicate different parts of our system to the different people to be able
to create a distributed mesh and community commons that is distributed. we
have a couple features that we're working with because we're working with
hollow chain is we have integration with unyt accounting which it gives us
the ability to integrate with their great work around transferring of money
between individuals and being able to put that onto a blockchain or another
social chain or chain.

Frank Sanborn: The other thing is that we are fully tenant based and s all
everything is segmented in that all the tenants each can set up their own
environment their own storage their own things and we just become kind of a
weaver. if you're familiar with moss and weave that's hollow chains kind of
distributed client for doing group work. we are also integrated with that
as well. and then kind of like what we do is we have these master recipes
that you can build and then when you publish people could purchase them or
you can give them to them.

Frank Sanborn: And then that sets up the infrastructure for what your
license says to you. and I think the next thing is that being able to have
a gradient trust relationships is also super important. and as I've been
working through this I'm not sure how many people are familiar with
permaculture but we decided to take a centric inspired view of what trust
is and inside of the permaculture world.

Frank Sanborn: This is actually a really super important part of it is that
this is really kind of like how you break down of energy and resources and
how you define a zone and your zone zero is your home zero. This is you
taking care of yourself. your zone one is just in your yard just outside
the thing where you put the next most amount of energy in intending in
order to grow your vegetables or do these things. and the further you work
out the less relationship you have, less intimate relationship you have and
probably less time you have. So we believe that that's really a kind of a
model that follows us through our social interactions and how we interact
with the environment and by creating this trust zone architecture that
lives between places and devices and people and all this stuff, we have a
comprehensive way to represent trust in its relationship to you.

Frank Sanborn: And so, we have a, zero through five trust zone. and, each
one of those trust zones, has the ability to tell you what you need in
order to gain more trust. this system is built on trust. And we want to
build more trust. And if you break trust, you can then also put people into
different zones. and you can also segment it out. that says, "Yes, I trust
this person, but they have this, Galaxy S4 from, 1999 and is running
Android 10, and it's not something that I can trust on my network to be
secure. So, while I trust a person, I don't trust their device.
00:30:00

Frank Sanborn: So then I can, put them into a trust zone and ask them to
mediate remediate out and inside of trust zones, we also have the ability
to place IoT devices. so anything that runs in home assistant or ASP home
can be brought into this. And so then now you can say that in my trust zone
these following people

Frank Sanborn: who are in zone zero have access to my cameras or my weather
station or my information at home and trust zone one they have less
information in trust zone two in that this also allows us to set up the
ability to do things like tool sharers and being able to set up if you're
out camping you can set up some sensors and you can say this is my zone one
and if anything crosses into my zone one then I get an alert and I know
that something's in my presence and that I should be a lot more aware. the
flexibility in this is really kind of mind-blowing because now we can say
that I have a sensor and if people use that information from that sensor on
that land then and there's some type of monetary exchange.

Frank Sanborn: That land since it can collect money based upon the
resources that have been harvested or information that has been harvested
and then that can go to the stewardship circle that is managing for that
property. talking about ESP home and these type of things we have direct
integration and recipes for building your own sensors and devices. So we
have things like 3D printed weather stations and landslide things. We can
work with any type of device that is running ESP32 as it's chip because
it's really hackable. and so this kind of gives a little bit more context
of how we're doing this.

Frank Sanborn: being able to have an event come in we're able to look at
that event look in a trust zone lookup or evaluate the policy around that
we can do notification rounding we can do actions in so talking about some
of how do people interact with our system and what is the core stuff and I
don't know if there's all this in here but our core stack is built on rest
so all of our backend functionality is we have a GraphQL API and we support
AT protocol reading and transfer of our data AT protocol.

Frank Sanborn: On the backbone, we have mesh core and mistic support. And
we use Libra mesh in order to create Wi-Fi mesh bubbles out in the field or
inside of your home or in your neighborhood. we use open layers as our
mapping context and this allows us to be able to create a rich authoring
experience inside of that. along with open layers, we also have this
ability to integrate audio into this because audio is a big piece of this
and storytelling is a big piece of this. And so in here we have open layers
and we have the ability to map information over time in a place.

Frank Sanborn: So we can create very rich storytelling and allow people to
tell the information of the landscape and their story through that. this is
a diagram that I created kind of back around but it really kind of
represents what we're doing is we're creating a data collection hub. we
have different backbones and that data hub is assumed to be offline. and so
it collects that data. and that's what we're using Hollow Chain for. And so
you can use a Raspberry Pi connect in and kind of go through this. so a
great deal of labor is currently invisible undervalued, especially in our
communities. we don't really have good systems to invite people to come out
and tend the land and to learn and to be able to have a community thing.

Frank Sanborn: And one of the things that I've been working on for the past
three years, which is a thing called railroad camp, it's through the sish
sea ecosystem restoration guild. And we have permissions from the Twilip
tribes to steward 100 acres on the Skycommerce River. And we have four
weekend events where we offer free camping and free learning opportunities
to come out and be with the land and to learn how to tend it. And so, a big
chunk of my thinking has been how do we get people out at the river? how do
we create shared space? How do we get permissions? How do we get people out
the river? And then what is the infrastructure? What does it look like to
tend? the models that we have today are very transactionalbased and very
one-off based.
00:35:00

Frank Sanborn: there is not a continuum of care and our ecosystem
restoration community or kind of that whole field of work. it's very much
you come in, you do the work, you write down your notes for your grant and
you come back three years or five years later but there's not this
continued relationship. And one of the things that it's that continuing and
building of that relationship that allows us to become more open to the
natural world and to brings us a lot of things all the studies say that
mental health is directly tied to how much time you spend outside.

Frank Sanborn: So, I'm using this as an example because we share some
information that is from within the tribes. We're asked not to share that
out. And I've always wanted to be able to have a way to have information
that's shared with me, or I want to share information, but I want to be
able to, know where that information is going and as part of that
stewardship of that information, I should have in control of that. And so
that's another piece of this thing is that you can come in, you can teach a
class, you can publish your work and then you can define through badges who
has access to that and then what type of access to that do they have access
to reshare this information or if they do they have access to what is that
policy around sharing of that information is what is that exchange is it
money is it time is it sharing of other information so Yeah.

Frank Sanborn: So this is a system kind of consuming itself and so in order
to create a license a badge we have a thing called a badge template we
store those in git so that they're versioned and we can always go back to
that version that you're requesting that's coming from your license so that
we can verify all that information on it and that it's not just a one-off
badge but we have recipes. Those recipes are applied. We build a work
instance, which is you're building the context, you're building up all the
things, you're building your draft, you're adding all of your images, and
then when you publish something, it's actually a published work. And that's
when, your badge template is registered and you start creating or minting
licenses for people to use that work. U, works have artifacts. It's a
compound document if you think about it that way.

Frank Sanborn: And so artifacts also have all the same things as work, but
they're really just kind of unpublished. And our world is not just virtual,
but physical products. And so with being able to build kits and IoT devices
and all these things, we have a kind of a whole infrastructure on how you
manage and ideulate an actual physical product and bringing that into
existence. And then once you publish the recipe, it shows up in the store.
people can purchase it and they purchase their license and then we can use
that license to validate who they are and what they can do with it and that
so it's not just about Social fabric is just the underlying technology and
a big piece of I think it's not just the technology but actually how we're
inviting people to come and play with it.

Frank Sanborn: So social fabric is going to be a cooperative that is owned
by the organization and developers and individuals who are building on top
of the social fabric. in my model I'm creating several organizations that
will be built on top of social fabric that will provide services out. And
so one of them is Spectrum Insights Neighborhood, which is a Minecraft
service focused on people on the Century Spectrum, and our model is to work
directly with families and with other mental health organizations and
providing a safe secure place where people can come in and learn about
shutdown and about themselves.
00:40:00

Frank Sanborn: And it's designed so that every player is in safe,
challenged, accepted, known and empowered is cake. Another organization
that we're going to have is sensorware which is going to handle the IoT
kits and in that and that the idea is that again we're providing the
infrastructure to test the system out on top of social fabric but also
having real businesses that we can set up as recipes so that other people
can follow our recipes and make this whole process so much easier. And the
other things that we're going to have is the 501c8 sister organization
which will license social fabric and then provide that infrastructure out
to support this greater thing. we are about organizations.

Frank Sanborn: So, we want to be able to support, any organization inside
the zip code who have a role to play in the management and stewardship of
land and people. And so, we are going to have services for HOAs and PTAs
and other 501c3 organizations like regenerate Cascadia, which we're a
member of. and again, we've been looking at this as not just here's this
next little thing, but How's the system work in What are the long-term
things? And so, Horizon one is, support, memory, trust, portability. This
is, what we're working now. Horizon 2 is institutional. This is being able
to bring more institution.

Frank Sanborn: and the Horizon three. looking at what we can have when
people can come together, have trust, be able to share resources and
information in a way that supports each other and that instead of when
someone needs something it's hey I have those resources I can help versus I
don't know so this whole system it built on pilot projects and the building
of services. So this is not a abstract thing. social fabric is built on
social fabric.

Frank Sanborn: I just published the website yesterday and getting our cloud
infrastructure in place and getting everything routed so that we can bring
the Minecraft services online in the next couple weeks and being able to
support social fabric through offering people to come in and help us
contribute and gain more resources and grounding and start to scale more.
like I said I have a number of different pilots in progress. and each one
of them is kind of met to test different parts of the system. so where are
we at today? the reality is I have a wonderful codebase I think now.

Frank Sanborn: I have just released that onto our cloud, building out the
cloud infrastructure to be able to support cloud businesses. I think one of
the biggest things is that all the things I talked about runs on everything
from a Raspberry Pi 5 running on home assistant into the cloud. And so if
you have a Raspberry Pi, you can connect to another Raspberry Pi and you
can keep that very local inside of the zip code. If we need to go big and
above that, we have a cloud services infrastructure that we're building
out. I would like to invite you to join in this wonderful journey that
we're putting together. I believe that we have taken the work of you guys
in the WC3C with verifiable credentials and have created a system of trust
and of policy and of relationship that can fundamentally change how we
interact at a local level.

Frank Sanborn: And I invite you to become a founding contributor at social
fabric US. if this works we can turn a fragmented hard survival into a much
easier coordinated code lift for us all. And that is my presentation and
hopefully I have maintained my time here. Thank you very much.

Will Abramson: Thank you, I really appreciate your bold, ambitious vision
and, kind of encompasses a lot of things. if anyone has questions,…

Will Abramson: do jump on the queue. yeah.

Frank Sanborn: and…

Frank Sanborn: and I'm going to say this is very ambitious and it is
unwieldy in many places and…
00:45:00

Frank Sanborn: it's real. and the connection points that we need in order
to make this grow and figure, and go forth and is actually here, which I'm
super excited about. Okay, that's Phil

Will Abramson: Yeah.

Phillip Long: Yes, two questions quickly. One are you using such that
individuals can verify that they are in fact legitimate conveyors members
of your group in the field when they're going doortodoor or providing a
service. That is to say, show them a credential that the other person can
val verify and…

Phillip Long: confirm on the spot that they are who they say they are.

Frank Sanborn: Yes. …

Phillip Long: Okay, quick answer.

Frank Sanborn: and that can be both a physical badge that is done through a
QR code.

Phillip Long: Mhm. Right.

Frank Sanborn: That can be done through an NFT pendant. I believe that
ritual and important things. And so as people come into our things, I want
them to build their own pendant. And that pendant has an NFT chip in it.
And if you go up and you use that on your phone and you enter in your pen
and now we can authenticate so we actually have it at that level as well.

Frank Sanborn: Not just thinking of what are these more abstract things but
what are the real physical things that we can help people build
relationship with that you can use for that authorization and
authentication piece Yes,…

Phillip Long: And the second question is, are you also using it to sort of
audit the delivery of things that are intended to be sent to different
places? so that someone can go and take pictures of things that are
supposed to be delivered at some place and add that to the record as a
credential that can be part of your Providence chain of authenticating to a
third party something that they gave you to deliver was in fact put there.

Frank Sanborn: that functionality is in there and Zcap gives us the ability
to do that delegated u rights and that.

Phillip Long: which is great.

Frank Sanborn: So we can yep that's actually a really important piece.

Frank Sanborn: If you can't prove the providence in the chain, then it's
not really a chain.

Phillip Long: Not helpful,…

Frank Sanborn: Yeah, it's not really that helpful.

Phillip Long: right? Okay.

Frank Sanborn: Yeah.

Phillip Long: Thank you. great presentation. We've been looking at this
from the US Chamber of Commerce perspective and businesses in affected
areas of disaster. And I'd love to follow up a little bit with you to see
if there's a way to connect that

Frank Sanborn: I would love to follow up with that. before my started my
work with the government I was at Microsoft for about a year and a half
working in their unlimited potential team which g and my focus was how do I
make technology relevant for people living on $2 a day in India Africa and
China and that's where your local relevance and a lot of learnings came
into this type of system in order to be able to get access people need
access to information changes life the faster that people have access

Frank Sanborn: the information the more rapidly they can make decisions and
change their course for the day. So, at a fundamental level, our backend
mesh core network is your SMS layer and we can send a message over and…

Frank Sanborn: we can say you here's take this link to the following store.
They scan it and then they have an inventory of everything you need for
your care kit for you to come into the camp.

Frank Sanborn: All those type of scenarios are right in place and we can
like that's built into the system. You're welcome.

Phillip Long: Thanks. Very good.

Phillip Long: Thank you very much.

Will Abramson: Maybe I can ask a question…

Will Abramson: if nobody else is on the queue. I wonder if you could speak
to your implementation experience and maybe challenges with respect to VCs
and particularly ZCAPS LD. I was interested to see that you were using that
particularly as the CCG is planning to restart that effort to further
standardize that work.

Frank Sanborn: So, that's a great question. I gotta be honest. I use AI a
lot in the development of this and I don't call myself a developer on here
because I don't write code on this project. I've been using AI and,
reviewing lots and lots and lots of code. and so the implementation
challenges haven't been much because we're working with JSON and we're just
working with different configurations of how to represent that inside of a
structured thing. So, the biggest challenge is, getting that standardized
definition down. we're in the wild west still. Things are still not clearly
defined on all this stuff.

Frank Sanborn: I have to add on or to the licensing formats to these things
the things that I need to be able to verify. Not everything is there inside
of the language or the expression. and especially around some of the life
cycle stuff that we're doing and being able to make sure that our
information is additive. So one of the feature sets is we have a common
knowledge base that gets replicated between nodes so that one of the data
sets is going to be ecological data set where we have permissions from the
author to reprint all of his work that he's done around all of the data
plants and their uses for all the different tribes.
00:50:00

Frank Sanborn: And so there's this great big book I have and I've, have
permissions and we're going to use that as the seed, but the here's the
Latin name and here's the uses and all of that is going be, my agreement
with him is that I can't modify his work. That's great. I don't want to
modify his work. I want to add layers on top of that. So I want the
community to add in more information so we see it in encyclopedia set and
then the community builds the knowledge base and that's done through these
applying different things over a different time and how being able to keep
track of who did what and how did it come in and what is their attributions
and it's a complex world of intellectual property on all this actually.

Frank Sanborn: So kind of going back on the definition side is just trying
to align everything and AI has done a really good job of helping in that
it's like you bring different pieces together and then it can synthesize
that and then really it becomes a wiring job. I started social--fus I
finally got everything up and running and the infrastructure and everything
and last night is when I deployed it. So, it looks like crap today,…

Frank Sanborn: but I'm online. I'm live and people can come up and see that
I'll be working over this week to tighten everything up and to make sure
that all those features are in place. Yes, thank you. social guest rubber
US.

Will Abramson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I really appreciate from your
presentation just you speaking then you've done the hard work right of
going out into communities and listening to people and learning this
technology is there to support the human relationships rather than being a
technical solution that you're trying to push on humans right that's kind
of…

Frank Sanborn: Yeah, I mean,…

Will Abramson: what I got from your presentation which I appreciate

Frank Sanborn: yeah, I have spent, the last decade in the field and, not
working, for big corporations and making lots of money because I think I
can make lots of money at corporations because I've done it before. But
it's been really focused on this work and learning, and going out into the
field and meeting people and understanding what their experience is.

Will Abramson: Mhm.

Frank Sanborn: This is going to be a paperbased system. I'm going to send
people out with a piece of paper and they're going to go look for their
stuff and they're going to put it in their log book and then we can take a
photo and we can log it. I am going to assume that over the long run
technology is going to fail.

Frank Sanborn: It just is. And what we need to do is have technologies that
allow us to bridge this gap of knowledge of this stuff. and that's one of
the things that's really important to me. I don't learn when I sit in front
of a computer screen and look at it. I absorb information, but I learn when
I interact with people and I enter a state of play and I'm enjoying myself.
And it's like all these different elements and computers take away from
that on Computers tick away from the human element when you're in a
disaster and you're trying and you're suffering about this catastrophic
thing and you're in shutdown and if someone's trying to speak to you when
they have a computer in your face, you're not going to trust them. you
don't build that relationship that emotional bond that people really need
in order to feel connected and safe.

Frank Sanborn: And so, for me, this system is more about paper in the long
run and about creating a really easy kickass PowerPoint and…

Frank Sanborn: publisher style thing to help people manage. That's where
the authoring tools piece comes in.

Will Abramson: Yeah,…

Will Abramson: that resonates with me strongly. Jeff, please go for it.
You're muted. did you just drop Jeff? No. Okay, no questions. I thought
you'd have interesting things to contribute. Frank's talk reminded me quite
a lot of presentations that Jeff likes to give at IAW. Come here.
00:55:00

Kaliya Identity Woman: Yeah. Hi Frank. It's super good to see you here and
presenting like this is Yeah,…

Frank Sanborn: This is a ninemon circle of us meeting in last May in
Seattle at a abandoned steam plant…

Frank Sanborn: where we hung out over a weekend talking about regenerative
economics and of all this fun stuff. So not specifically yet,…

Kaliya Identity Woman:

Kaliya Identity Woman: it's fantastic. I'm going to follow up with you.
There's several projects that are sort of percolating along these lines.
I'm just curious. You may not have done this, but have you looked at any of
what the first person project folks have been dreaming up?

Frank Sanborn: but I will.

Frank Sanborn: I want to be a collaborator and…

Frank Sanborn: I want to help support people with their stuff. yeah, I'll
be volunteering. I need to talk with Skeer, but yeah,…

Kaliya Identity Woman: Are you going to the earth repair convergence thing?

Kaliya Identity Woman: Yeah. …

Frank Sanborn: I'll be there.

Kaliya Identity Woman: unfortunately, I'm not going because I'm leading the
bio regional unconference here in the Bay Area and…

Frank Sanborn: Is that the same weekend? Okay.

Kaliya Identity Woman: it's the same weekend. so I'm going to stick with my
bio region, but there's also the Turtle Island convergence in September in
Portland and let's follow up and I also went to the perma computing club
here in San Francisco this last weekend. So it's like the people talking
about permaculture and computing and you're definitely in the per computing
camp.

Frank Sanborn: I have brought permaculture as a core representative in the
system.

Will Abramson: Nice.

Frank Sanborn: I think that with the help of a lot of other people I've
kind of wandered on a thing there's something really here that's really
powerful and I've had the experience to kind of think through a lot of the
pitfalls potholes and the downfalls that typically we run into and…

Kaliya Identity Woman: Yeah, cool.

Frank Sanborn: then things kind of fall apart and so to me I've been really
trying hard for over a decade to push that ball forward because I come in I
share information and then information goes away so

Will Abramson: Cool.

Frank Sanborn: Yeah, I just want to say that,…

Will Abramson: Any last comments from anyone or last comments from you,
Frank, before we close

Frank Sanborn: this is my life project and this is what I'm going to be
continuing for the rest of my life. this project does need support and help
in lots of different ways.

Frank Sanborn: And if you feel inspired or if this work is inspiring to
you, please reach out. Please come aboard. we're all in the canoe together,
so to speak, and we have a ways to go before things get better. So, let's
talk

Kaliya Identity Woman: Yeah, I mean I know it's probably a stretch,…

Kaliya Identity Woman: but the internet identity workshop is coming up in
two weeks down here in California. And if you anyways it's an awesome
opportunity to connect with all the core folks and…

Will Abramson: Okay.

Kaliya Identity Woman: anyways we'll talk offline and see if we can make it
happen.

Frank Sanborn: Let's do that finally I've made it through the valley of
death I've worked on a lot of projects and I've built a lot of things and I
typically get lost in the valley about 85% of the way there all resources
exhausted and…

Frank Sanborn: and through the help of my community and people, I've been
able to keep this project going and I see that I'm at a point now where
we're going to take off here. So, I thank you. Hi

Kaliya Identity Woman: Okay. Great.

Will Abramson: Yeah, great.

Will Abramson: Yeah, thanks so much. I wish you and the project all the
best of success. I look forward to seeing it in the future. Thank you.
Thanks everybody. see you next week. Cheers again, Frank. Bye.
01:00:00

Day Waterbury: Fridays and Saturdays.
Meeting ended after 01:01:53 👋

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