Re: Hello world, meet American driver’s licenses

First of all, a big thank you to Kim for authoring the series and submitting it to the community for iteration. Thank you also to the people who submitted their well-intentioned points and observations.

As a remote bystander of what is unravelling in the US, I am surprised Utah is not mentioned more often. True, Steve, Chris and Timothy are all involved in the best way possible - why is this not happening more often in other states though?

-Kalin

From: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2025 at 11:45 PM
To: Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
Cc: W3C Credentials CG (Public List) <public-credentials@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Hello world, meet American driver’s licenses

I am going to add this publicly since it seemed to read well;

"
There are more. I just pulled that digital id article at random. This might help: https://www.infowars.com/results?search=digital+id


I am not sure where you are, but I see this as data / opinion and try to not blindly believe everything. I'd love to hear what the so labelled "globalists" think about digital id efforts. Open. non-judgement discussion is the best way to go IMHO. If digital id is useful for humans and enhances rather than reduces quality of life I am for it. It is probably best to engage as many as possible,  because if some think it is a power play or have the wool pulled over their eyes it could be bad. If there are self-interested elements, maybe with those elements deluded into thinking that they are doing good, that would be good to know about too. Everyone needs to know that they can all win."

-Brent Shambaugh

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 12:19 PM Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com<mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am also reminded of situations where someone wanted to do the "right thing" but wanted to "keep their job" or was otherwise compromised. This might be outside of the scope. Creating good digital identity systems is more than just code.

-Brent Shambaugh

GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh

Website: http://bshambaugh.org/

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 12:14 PM Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com<mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>> wrote:
Elaboration. There are a number of AlexJones/Infowars articles. They mostly boil down into creating a control grid.  Whether there is an actual agenda is up to debate. Some of the points are still valid.

Here is an example with biometric identification:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/third-world-countries-continue-rolling-out-digital-biometric-ids-as-id4africa-agenda-is-underway


Key points:
+ "digital ID app could be theoretically shut off if the user fails to meet specific requirements"
   They cite covid-19 vaccination certificates. I remember earlier arguments against this on the grounds that it was a slippery slope toward identification for everything. The premise is good. But like they argue against some of the precautions put in
   place after 9-11, the desire to be safe leads to a trade between perceived safety and freedom. The agenda part would be the same site saying that both covid-19 and 911 were planned events for the purpose of a hegelian dialectic (i.e. create a
  situation where a trade off between safety and freedom seems logical, when otherwise it would face wide public opposition) In my opinion, discussion should take place before an emergency arises. Perhaps there should be no bending of the rules.
+ "digital ID smartphone apps for increased tracking abilities"
   This is like what Kim said. People like Edward Snowden and William Benny would also agree that the government already has stepped too far in collecting unnecessary data. So there are elements in government that do favor hoarding data, beyond
  what may be considered reasonable [1]. If there is abuse, how can checks be put in place to prevent further abuse? Most people are good. Few people are bad.
+ "digital ID for children to access, or not access, age-restricted content."
This seems good. However, a common argument against this is that the road to dystopia leads with good intention. Start with something that is easily accepted, then allow scope creep to restrict access for ever more situations.
+ "One inherent danger of biometric identification is that the data cannot be altered if compromised, such as with a database hack."
+ "Facial recognition images could be fed into A.I. software to create fake surveillance camera video of a targeted individual conducting a crime. "
The two previous could be seen together. Creating fake footage is easier than ever. It is good that deep fakes have already been thought about in this community through verifiable data.
+ " likely scenario will be a new push for the global microchip implantation of the human race, as microchips can have their information altered upon being compromised."
I frequently hear talk about the Book of Revelation and the Mark of the Beast shortly after hearing talk like this. Identification to buy or sell should be seen as a warning.

I realize that some are involved with ID4Africa. Unfortunately on this Infowars site I see a lot of comments that are begging for edification. I wish there was more intelligent discourse than finger pointing.

I hope this is constructive in the sense there are danger zones.


[1] NSA Whistle-Blower Tells All: The Program | Op-Docs | The New York Times <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-3K3rkPRE>


-Brent Shambaugh

GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh

Website: http://bshambaugh.org/

LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 11:04 AM Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com<mailto:kimdhamilton@gmail.com>> wrote:
Interesting perspective; can you elaborate? Please keep the conversation constructive.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 9:01 AM Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com<mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>> wrote:
Almost sent last night too:

Another solution is to be educated and continually skeptical. Some of Kim's arguments remind me of some Alex Jones/Infowars articles I have seen. While this may not be a flattering comparison, it is important to be skeptical of the skeptics

I am adding this now because I believe it is an argument for open standards. Transparency and public involvement builds trust, but also builds the opportunity for edification and discourse.

-Brent Shambaugh

GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh

Website: http://bshambaugh.org/

LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259
Skype: brent.shambaugh
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh

WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me



On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 1:06 AM Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com<mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>> wrote:
To be honest, sometimes I "forget" my phone. On occasion, I wear a "tin foil hat" and put my phone in a faraday cage. I do not trust my government. The next "Save American Privacy Act" may be really the "Take American Privacy Act" passed on Christmas Eve.

Some say the solution is  to somehow take money out of politics.

-Brent

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 10:25 PM Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com<mailto:kimdhamilton@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
I realized we’ve been talking past each other in the mDL discussion, and a large factor is likely different assumptions and use based on where we live. So I wrote a US driver’s license explainer:
http://kimdhamilton.com/american_privacy/


I hope this will help move the discussion forward when we talk about the risks in the US context.
Kim




--
-Brent Shambaugh

GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh

Website: http://bshambaugh.org/

LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259

Skype: brent.shambaugh
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh

WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me