Re: Hello world, meet American driver’s licenses

I wanted to add onto what @Mahmoud Alkhraishi <mahmoud@mavennet.com> raised
about Canada not having a national ID program. While it's true that a
driver's license is the default go to document for proving your identity,
you often need to provide 2+ pieces of correlating identification to meet a
sufficient identification level, at least in some provinces. This creates
legal conflict with having a single digital identity document presented to
meet such assurance levels.

Québec has recently put forward Bill 82
<https://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/travaux-parlementaires/projets-loi/projet-loi-82-43-1.html>
in which they define a national Digital Identity legal framework for
residents of the province. This will likely be instrumental for adoption.

This being said, I enjoyed the blog post!

On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 1:29 PM Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com> wrote:

> Strong +1:
> "Creating good digital identity systems is more than just code."
>
> What happened in Utah's mDL implementation: the implementor rolled out a
> solution that *preferred* server retrieval because it was more *efficient*
> than Bluetooth*. More efficient, but at what cost.
>
> This really highlights the risks of making technical decisions in a
> vacuum. We're mostly technical people here. We cosplay as privacy/legal
> experts often, but we are often shortsighted.
>
> Specifications applying to identity only benefit from public review and
> discourse, including a broad range of stakeholders.
>
> **Subsequently**, when Utah learned about this, they changed it, deleted
> the logs + records, and are now leading the way on digital identity
> solutions that prioritize individual sovereignty*
>
> Sent via Superhuman <https://sprh.mn/?vip=kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 10:19 AM, Brent Shambaugh <
> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am also reminded of situations where someone wanted to do the "right
>> thing" but wanted to "keep their job" or was otherwise compromised. This
>> might be outside of the scope. Creating good digital identity systems is
>> more than just code.
>>
>> -Brent Shambaugh
>>
>> GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh
>> Website: http://bshambaugh.org/
>> LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259
>> Skype: brent.shambaugh
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh
>> WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 12:14 PM Brent Shambaugh <
>> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Elaboration. There are a number of AlexJones/Infowars articles. They
>>> mostly boil down into creating a control grid.  Whether there is an actual
>>> agenda is up to debate. Some of the points are still valid.
>>>
>>> Here is an example with biometric identification:
>>>
>>> https://www.infowars.com/posts/third-world-countries-continue-rolling-out-digital-biometric-ids-as-id4africa-agenda-is-underway
>>>
>>> Key points:
>>> + "digital ID app could be theoretically shut off if the user fails to
>>> meet specific requirements"
>>>    They cite covid-19 vaccination certificates. I remember earlier
>>> arguments against this on the grounds that it was a slippery slope toward
>>> identification for everything. The premise is good. But like they argue
>>> against some of the precautions put in
>>>    place after 9-11, the desire to be safe leads to a trade between
>>> perceived safety and freedom. The agenda part would be the same site saying
>>> that both covid-19 and 911 were planned events for the purpose of a
>>> hegelian dialectic (i.e. create a
>>>   situation where a trade off between safety and freedom seems logical,
>>> when otherwise it would face wide public opposition) In my opinion,
>>> discussion should take place before an emergency arises. Perhaps there
>>> should be no bending of the rules.
>>> + *"*digital ID smartphone apps for increased tracking abilities
>>> *"*
>>>    This is like what Kim said. People like Edward Snowden and William
>>> Benny would also agree that the government already has stepped too far in
>>> collecting unnecessary data. So there are elements in government that do
>>> favor hoarding data, beyond
>>>   what may be considered reasonable [1]. If there is abuse, how can
>>> checks be put in place to prevent further abuse? Most people are good. Few
>>> people are bad.
>>> + "digital ID for children to access, or not access, age-restricted
>>> content."
>>> This seems good. However, a common argument against this is that the
>>> road to dystopia leads with good intention. Start with something that is
>>> easily accepted, then allow scope creep to restrict access for ever more
>>> situations.
>>> + "One inherent danger of biometric identification is that the data
>>> cannot be altered if compromised, such as with a database hack."
>>> + "Facial recognition images could be fed into A.I. software to create
>>> fake surveillance camera video of a targeted individual conducting a crime.
>>> "
>>> The two previous could be seen together. Creating fake footage is easier
>>> than ever. It is good that deep fakes have already been thought about in
>>> this community through verifiable data.
>>> + " likely scenario will be a new push for the global microchip
>>> implantation of the human race, as microchips can have their information
>>> altered upon being compromised."
>>> I frequently hear talk about the Book of Revelation and the Mark of the
>>> Beast shortly after hearing talk like this. Identification to buy or sell
>>> should be seen as a warning.
>>>
>>> I realize that some are involved with ID4Africa. Unfortunately on this
>>> Infowars site I see a lot of comments that are begging for edification. I
>>> wish there was more intelligent discourse than finger pointing.
>>>
>>> I hope this is constructive in the sense there are danger zones.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] NSA Whistle-Blower Tells All: The Program | Op-Docs | The New York
>>> Times <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-3K3rkPRE>
>>>
>>> -Brent Shambaugh
>>>
>>> GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh
>>> Website: http://bshambaugh.org/
>>> LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259
>>> Skype: brent.shambaugh
>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh
>>> WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 11:04 AM Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting perspective; can you elaborate? Please keep the
>>>> conversation constructive.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 9:01 AM Brent Shambaugh <
>>>> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Almost sent last night too:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another solution is to be educated and continually skeptical. Some of
>>>>> Kim's arguments remind me of some Alex Jones/Infowars articles I have seen.
>>>>> While this may not be a flattering comparison, it is important to be
>>>>> skeptical of the skeptics
>>>>>
>>>>> I am adding this now because I believe it is an argument for open
>>>>> standards. Transparency and public involvement builds trust, but also
>>>>> builds the opportunity for edification and discourse.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Brent Shambaugh
>>>>>
>>>>> GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh
>>>>> Website: http://bshambaugh.org/
>>>>> LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259
>>>>> Skype: brent.shambaugh
>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh
>>>>> WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 1:06 AM Brent Shambaugh <
>>>>> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To be honest, sometimes I "forget" my phone. On occasion, I wear a
>>>>>> "tin foil hat" and put my phone in a faraday cage. I do not trust my
>>>>>> government. The next "Save American Privacy Act" may be really the "Take
>>>>>> American Privacy Act" passed on Christmas Eve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some say the solution is  to somehow take money out of politics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Brent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 10:25 PM Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I realized we’ve been talking past each other in the mDL discussion,
>>>>>>> and a large factor is likely different assumptions and use based on where
>>>>>>> we live. So I wrote a US driver’s license explainer:
>>>>>>> http://kimdhamilton.com/american_privacy/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this will help move the discussion forward when we talk about
>>>>>>> the risks in the US context.
>>>>>>> Kim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -Brent Shambaugh
>>>>>
>>>>> GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh
>>>>> Website: http://bshambaugh.org/
>>>>> LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259
>>>>> Skype: brent.shambaugh
>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh
>>>>> WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me
>>>>
>>>>
>