- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 19:47:50 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-01-16/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-01-16/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-01-16.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2024-01-16 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Jan&period_year=2024&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date Organizer: Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang Scribe: Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords Present: Harrison Tang, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Kimberly Linson, Jing Chao, Wendy Seltzer, Bob Wyman, Nis Jespersen , Gregory Natran, Brandi Delancey, Will, Mike Xu, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Dmitri Zagidulin, Phil Long, Erica Connell, Rashmi Siravara, Leo, Kaliya Young, Adrian Gropper, Andres Uribe, Jeff O / HumanOS Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Kimberly Linson: Hearing from all of you. Kimberly Linson: Uh but let me. Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: Issues give me a second. Harrison_Tang: It says the recording service is currently unavailable. Harrison_Tang: first time. Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: I think the subtitle still works. Kimberly Linson: Yeah it does seem to be transcribing. Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: Now it says that it's currently unavailable so I'll just I'll just do the transcriber and then uh go from there. Harrison_Tang: Hi Kimberly you can start you know. Kimberly Linson: Yeah yeah okay I'm sorry I was I was watching the transcriber. Kimberly Linson: Uh okay well hello everyone um welcome to to today's meeting um which as I just said a couple of minutes ago is is really an open agenda for us to talk about um the work being done to be asking questions about um how your work might fit with that work uh indefinitely maybe most importantly to think about the kinds of things that we want to uh address and look at in in 2024. Kimberly Linson: Um so I'm very excited um to lead that discussion uh and look forward to really hearing from from all of you. Kimberly Linson: Uh since this is uh uh an open meeting it's maybe even more important than usual for us to to remind ourselves of our professional code of of conduct and how we um are all striving towards the same goals um we're all trying to make this technology better and useful for for um. Kimberly Linson: For the. Kimberly Linson: World so uh be keeping that in mind as you may differ in the approach um but that the the goal is the same. Kimberly Linson: Do have uh an IP note so um remember that everyone is welcome to participate in these calls we are a community group and we want to be the largest community um focused on credentials um and really bringing in as many voices to that Community as we can um but if you are wanting to participate more formally than I would really invite you to make sure that you have a w3c account and that you have signed the community contributor license both of the links to that are in the agenda for today. Kimberly Linson: Um we do keep uh call notes in minutes usually we record an audio uh trans uh trans audio version of this call uh but we do not for some reason have that available to us today um but you can see uh if you open the chat that we are transcribing this call and that will serve as a record that this call happened and be saved in in our minutes. Kimberly Linson: If you want to participate in the call which I hope that all of you will do today um I would invite you to use Q Plus to put yourself on the Queue um that's going to be my job today is to kind of moderate this discussion and make sure that that everyone is getting a turn to speak um. Kimberly Linson: Potentially if I don't get enough I will be calling on you to speak uh uh so be thinking about how you might uh. Kimberly Linson: And where you might want to to contribute to the call today. Kimberly Linson: Uh and then uh this is uh now actually is a a great time for us to talk about uh or to in to welcome anyone who is new to the community or hasn't been here for a while um and wanted to to join today um I'm looking down the list and I don't know that I see any unfamiliar faces but um please put yourself on the Queue if you would like to just uh take a moment to to say hello. Kimberly Linson: Okay uh well how about uh announcements and reminders anything happening in the larger credentials community that you want to make sure to bring uh this group's attention to. Kimberly Linson: Well then I think we are to the the um main agenda um and ready to to kind of talk about what's happening um and what we're working on. Kimberly Linson: Um do I have anybody um here who is um a key contributor on any 1 of the current work items that wants to share where where you're at in the status of that. Kimberly Linson: All right well um let me call uh on uh Demetri do you mind if I call on you to talk a little bit about. Dmitri Zagidulin: For those of you who are not familiar uh VC edu is. Dmitri Zagidulin: So if I have a credentials in education task force so it's a part of the ccg uh but we have um a separate set of calls uh and speaking of which we we also have a different co-chairs and we're holding an election uh right now so if for some reason you're into verify the credentials and education and you're not part of that task force and you're interested in becoming a co-chair let us know uh because we're taking nominations now uh the existing uh chairs are myself and uh and Simone and we're looking for a third. Dmitri Zagidulin: Um uh Simon ravali uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: So over over the past year uh we've had a number of uh Pilots so various universities and and vendors uh deploying verifiable credentials in education so our calls have been a mix of. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh presentations about topics the pilots run into such as. Dmitri Zagidulin: Internationalization rendering or uh displaying credentials uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Various uh education specific. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh credential types such as open badges version 3 so that sort of thing and this this coming year is uh slated to do similar so we've got um we'll have uh report outs and demos of the open source software uh that was created in this field uh open wallets issuers and verifiers. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh that are being used in the field of Education um more conversations about uh displaying credentials and specifically printing them to PDF uh since that's 1 of the key sort of use cases that we've uh We've noticed in sharing. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah so I'll I'll start there uh let me know if there's uh any questions. Dmitri Zagidulin: And and uh 1 1 1 of the thing before uh before I pause for questions is uh 1 of 1 of our goals for this year is to uh continue expanding our libraries of example credentials so. Dmitri Zagidulin: How would you express a diploma now. Dmitri Zagidulin: Many of you probably uh familiar with the. Dmitri Zagidulin: Fact that even necessarily stage in fact fiber credentials uh various jurisdictions and various sort of sub communities have are establishing uh their own similar standards for example the European Union has a um in progress specifications of this is how we're going to. Dmitri Zagidulin: Express diplomas and then um 1 Ed Tech and the open badges version 3 specification has a different way to express diplomas and then our colleagues in Japan have yet a third way so 1 of the things that we're hoping to do in VC edu is first to document the for example the the different diploma schemas and then uh possibly to propose and unify uh or at least better yet provide translation and mapping suggestions of here's how you can go from the fields of lawn to the fields of the other uh any questions also. Kimberly Linson: That is really exciting um and I know I'm working on a number of of credentials in different spaces um you know an expression of the CLR for high impact practices um and in a Community College Community College setting So when you say that you're you're wanting to collect credentials. Kimberly Linson: Like ha ha how would we how would we. Kimberly Linson: Yeah how do we get those to you like how how would we how would I do that. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah absolutely that's exactly that's exactly the kind of stuff we want yeah so we're thinking yeah um so so we're thinking combination of uh we'll have a GitHub repository of these examples uh that you can make PRS to for those that don't want to mess with GitHub uh you can email the chairs directly and I'm thinking it might make sense to do an editable doc like a Google doc or something like that that people can paste uh examples to but yeah we'll start with GitHub and email. Kimberly Linson: And then the the when you're talking about credential display and. Kimberly Linson: And using um you know being able to to render it as a PDF is that work that's being done by the the work item that the rendering work item. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yes yes that that's exactly it right so which is I again uh lots of stuff being incubated in the ccg uh that's relevant to us so there is a uh render method work item uh that we're using oh and the other thing that I wanted to mention that uh we're working on expanding is of course uh the trust Registries the known issuer and verifier lists. Dmitri Zagidulin: Um in some ways education is a really good industry a good landscape to do that in because a lot of the sort of traditional University issuers are are already on lists somewhere whether it's. Dmitri Zagidulin: You know the. Dmitri Zagidulin: Ministry of Education or uh a National Association of um of registrars of academic regards so we're we're working with um those kind of entities to see if they're interested in hosting the credentials since they're a natural Authority there or at very least um educating the various stakeholders that hey this is a necessary piece of infrastructure if we're gonna do anything uh with with VC. Kimberly Linson: And are you doing that work um you know on Mondays in the 11 oclock meetings or are you having separate you know work group meetings to to propel that work forward and vote for both of those items. Dmitri Zagidulin: The latter although you know uh New Year now is a now is a great chance to refresh people's minds on this is what uh known issuer list looks like this is a Specs that we use this is the uh sort of Road bumps that we bumped up against and to uh invite more people to collaborate so. Dmitri Zagidulin: Most likely will have a call on um unknown issue and verify a lists in in the next few weeks. Kimberly Linson: In the in the VCU. Dmitri Zagidulin: In the VC do you yes. Kimberly Linson: Okay great great so if that is of interest to you then I would I would strongly um suggest that you take take a look and and also Demetri I'm I'm sure I'm gonna say that I'm sure folks would be you'd be happy if folks emailed you and let you know that they were they were very interested in that topic and how could they get plugged in yeah okay great. Kimberly Linson: Uh anybody else want to talk about something they've been working on and they're excited about and share share that progress. Kimberly Linson: And their thoughts about it for for 2024. Phil_Long_(T3): Hi this is Phil I might be able to say something about the progress on linked claims. Kimberly Linson: Great because you know what if nobody jumped in I was going to call on you. Phil_Long_(T3): How about that. Phil_Long_(T3): I was anticipating. Phil_Long_(T3): Um so uh link claims as uh as an approach um to um binding credentials together um with a um hash link. Phil_Long_(T3): And also allowing any given credential to point to a digital object at a stable location out on the web also with a hash link. Phil_Long_(T3): Where the hash link adds the feature of camper evidence to the object that it's pointing to. Phil_Long_(T3): Um is now being developed into an application. Phil_Long_(T3): That would be a standalone and freely available application to anybody who wish to author either a individual credential that simply made an OBS a simply had evidence or a pointer to an object um in a stable web location or more commonly and sort of the primary motivator for the work is to make a recommendation um of uh. Phil_Long_(T3): Support for someone's claim in a self asserted credential or for that matter in an issued credential to a third person. Phil_Long_(T3): Provides both the bonafides of the individual recommender to give credibility to their judgment as to why they are in a position to make um uh. Phil_Long_(T3): Claim something that you should consider valuable and credible uh and secondly to add evidence to their assertion about your capability that is the recommende capability that they may have uniquely in their possession um. Phil_Long_(T3): That's going forward um it is being funded by the T3 um. Phil_Long_(T3): Innovation Network um through a grant from The Gates Foundation and uh fortunately we have Dmitri and his team and um gold of is and her um. Phil_Long_(T3): Her group um which is at uh. Phil_Long_(T3): Cooperation. or what's cooking um uh the 2 names she has for the teams that she works with that are doing the actual development work itself and we hope to have that in some form of testable format um by early next year if not before. Kimberly Linson: That is very exciting work as as well um if somebody wants to get involved in that that is work so that's not being housed by the ccg that's outside. Phil_Long_(T3): That's outside the ccg but we certainly were a plan on having updates presented to the ccg for feedback and and suggestions and advice and uh and I would love to be able to uh keep people informed on an ongoing basis about that. Phil_Long_(T3): So 1 of the things it does represent is a definition of a couple of new of verifiable credential uh data model types that uh at the moment we really only have the compliance uh for the obv 3 and CLR V2 as credentials that are um specific specifically defined for particular functions. Phil_Long_(T3): this will be. Kimberly Linson: Great thank you so much and and Phil you reminded me of something else that we we definitely that the will and Harrison and I are hoping to get out of this meeting which is you know more topics for this call that we you know folks we need to invite to come and present so um I definitely have made a note that we want to have um this team come and talk about this work um do you think that's sort of quarter 2 of this year quarter 3 what do you. Phil_Long_(T3): Certainly quarter 2 uh would be a reasonable time for an update on things going forward. Phil_Long_(T3): And I should add there's 1 more credential development piece of work which is in the process which is only proposed at this point it is not funded. Phil_Long_(T3): Um but that is to build a new credential called The Narrative credential. Phil_Long_(T3): Um and the narrative credential is essentially just that a story that is punctuated by hyper um hash links to evidence and credentials. Phil_Long_(T3): Um that can then be used to uh provide context for how someone receiving a stack of credentials um might go through um the credentials presented but also do that with the rationale for the verifiable presentation author to justify why this set of credentials and the evidence in them correspond to whatever it is they're they're either applying for for a job or or a grant or whatever it might be used for. Kimberly Linson: That is also very exciting and where is that work item being housed. Phil_Long_(T3): That's that's also being done through T3 and the learning employment record network but it is at the present time we're happy to talk to a talk at uh talk through that here and invite input from anybody who is interested in helping us to find that and I'll say that with uh a tip of the hat and invitation to Demetri to um. Phil_Long_(T3): Clarify or extend that if if he wishes. Kimberly Linson: I'll tell you just that that that 1 of the. Kimberly Linson: Things that. Kimberly Linson: I'm getting ready out of this meeting and and I'm going to invite folks to to chime in on this line is that you know I'm doing work with education Design Lab around the skills validation Network and we are very keen on figuring out how to help the folks that we're working with tell narrative stories with their credentials and so that's that's work I didn't know anything about and I'm very excited about it um so so thank you so much for for sharing that. Phil_Long_(T3): Right well so it's there is a an intention at least to connect this work on the narrative credential to some proposed work to take. Phil_Long_(T3): The um HR open um. Phil_Long_(T3): Resume activity which has um is being released as um as their um learning and employment record resume. Phil_Long_(T3): Version and it's it's version 4.4 which is being voted on by their technical committee as we speak for for release this quarter. Phil_Long_(T3): And the and 1 of our hopes is that we can turn. Phil_Long_(T3): Some of those um Json objects that correspond to resume elements into Json LD uh Standalone verifiable credentials so that someone might as create a resume out of a verifiable presentation of those objects and the narrative credential in front of them so to speak. Kimberly Linson: Very exciting thank you does anyone have any questions or comments on on Phil's what Phil just shared. Phil_Long_(T3): 1 thing I would ask this group to consider and I think Demetri you might be able to comment on this as well. Phil_Long_(T3): Um 1 of the challenges I think we're all facing is that beyond the overall VC data model. Phil_Long_(T3): no to my. Phil_Long_(T3): Knowledge at least other. Phil_Long_(T3): Implementations of specific credential types. Phil_Long_(T3): That um the community needs um. Phil_Long_(T3): Standards for um. Phil_Long_(T3): That is something that we need to start filling in the gaps as a community as quickly as we can because otherwise it's potential that various individual. Phil_Long_(T3): Um entities corporations businesses Etc will Define their own and toss them out there and then we'll have a uh a proliferation of things that actually address the same topics. Dmitri Zagidulin: I I I think that this is I I think that everyone who. Dmitri Zagidulin: I've sat down with her development teams in implementing anything credential related this is something you've run into. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh the team can say yep okay great credentials sound great we're on board uh we've got a pilot. Dmitri Zagidulin: Is there any existing credential schemas that we can reuse right for for our for our vertical and the answer is usually no now we we've got a little bit of progress in that area so we've got for example the educational task force here at ccg we've got diff having uh which is decentralized identity Foundation having a couple of working groups in some other verticals such as like Hospitality we have another ccg task force about um oh my God I'm blanking out about um. Phil_Long_(T3): Well the supply chain is is in there. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh the trans uh um nope completely forgot all words uh anyways so we we've got supply chain thank you that's what I was looking for we we've got the supply chain uh task force here in the ccg so there's there's a tiniest bit of progress in some verticals and complete lack of it in others so we I I completely agree with you Phil that. Dmitri Zagidulin: That we know what envelope we're using uh these these credentials these Json objects uh what do we put inside them is is the main question on everybody's Minds. Kimberly Linson: Great thank you both again does anyone want to jump in on on what they've heard so far. Kimberly Linson: Do we have anyone here who is doing um some of that work on the supply chain side oh actually pulled that thought and uh let me go to cala. Kaliya Young: I think um. Kaliya Young: I think we are at an inflection in terms of supporting. Kaliya Young: You know these these industries where fees will be useful understanding them and updating them. Kaliya Young: Also think like. Kaliya Young: We look at the FIDO alliance. Kaliya Young: They've been very strategic in having. Kaliya Young: Paid staff people. Kaliya Young: Whose job is to focus on particular verticals. Kaliya Young: And working on telling a story for that vertical I'm driving a job in that vertical. Kaliya Young: And I think. Kaliya Young: It's not so much ccg because ccg is the beautiful thing it is as a volunteer. Kaliya Young: Community-driven space but there are adjacent organizations that do have resourcing and could have paid staff who really focus. Kaliya Young: Communicating clearly to verticals. Kaliya Young: Because each vertical has its own language it speaks. Kaliya Young: And and I think we need to really think about how we do that. Kimberly Linson: That's a really interesting. Kimberly Linson: Idea and and so I'm I'm. Kimberly Linson: I'm curious about you know what what what comes to mind when you think that there there are verticals. Kimberly Linson: I'm trying to think about how how we how we get more verticals involved in in the thinking and we how we know and maybe it's you know who needs right education is very clear its supply chain is a very clear like who else. Kimberly Linson: Healthcare is probably pretty clear but what else are you who else are you thinking about. Kaliya Young: Oh I don't. Kaliya Young: A lot. Kaliya Young: Of touch points both on physical good supply chain side its own infrastructure and then people. Kaliya Young: There's work going on in iata. Kaliya Young: Yeah anyways but I I think this is a community conversation right of like okay. Kaliya Young: What are. Kaliya Young: Where where what what are verticals that have had that have had. Kaliya Young: Have startups and or industry associations. Kaliya Young: Engaging and how. <phil_long_(t3)> T3 is working to get the HR industry, through collaboration with HR Open Standards, to define credentials for their community. Kaliya Young: Clear communication into those Industries at their own industry events the nonprofit sector also huge deal. Kaliya Young: Doing Social Services. Kaliya Young: Interacting with governments. Kaliya Young: All the time on behalf of clients they're also you know like there's just a lot of verticals. Kimberly Linson: Those are a couple of really of really interesting ones you know you sent me a couple of notes about folks that. Kimberly Linson: And also if any others are coming to your mind about presentations we should have upcoming. Kimberly Linson: Oh sorry just who who know I was just asking yeah. Kaliya Young: You cut out a little bit for me but um I'm happy to send you more things as I I mean there's my newsletter which is how I find all those things right like. Kimberly Linson: I was asking who you who you think we should make sure we have come speak at at a ccg meeting. Kaliya Young: Yes I'll I'm happy to work on that. Kimberly Linson: Um and if yeah and and so that so let me throw that question out to the to the group are there. Kimberly Linson: Are there. Kimberly Linson: Folks are is there anyone here that that. Kimberly Linson: I don't know how to phrase this is there anyone here that really would like to come and speak um and hasn't had the opportunity to come and share the work that they're doing um. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh so definitely a big plus 1 to getting new voices in the room um my suggestion was going to be uh on on a different track uh I'd love to hear back from the Adobe team. Dmitri Zagidulin: Adobe ctpa standard um that that's developed I would love to hear if anybody's done any experiments Pilots or further investigations on embedding specifically verifiable credentials inside. Dmitri Zagidulin: C2p a metadata so I'd love to hear back from that team who has presented here I think a couple years ago something like. Kimberly Linson: Yep yep I remember that um okay. Kimberly Linson: Does anybody have a name. Kimberly Linson: Tumor I can go back and look but does it if you I'm just gonna throw it out there anyone remembers who who it is I'm happy to go and and uh. Kimberly Linson: Actually I say I'm happy to but that's Harrison's gig totally is he's the master at uh getting folks to come and and and talk to us. Kimberly Linson: So all right we will if you think of somebody that that you know at Adobe um otherwise we will Harrison and I'll put our and will will put our heads together and um. Kimberly Linson: To see who we can find Phil. <dmitri_zagidulin> Leonard Rosenthal was the speaker who presented previously Kimberly Linson: Phil did you want to add something. <dmitri_zagidulin> he's in charge of the C2PA project at the time Phil_Long_(T3): Sorry I was just typing what I was going to say related to that uh work that c2p is doing is work that Sony is doing embedding in firmware in the actual camera sensors of their new Alpha 7. <kimberly_wilson_linson> Thanks Dmitri! Phil_Long_(T3): Um the 4 I guess it's going to be camera the stamping of a credential for the pixel M the the literally the pixels of the full-frame image and generating that on the fly with every picture you take through their lenses. Phil_Long_(T3): And it would be really interesting to hear from them uh their approach to doing that they described in the ctpa um. Phil_Long_(T3): Recom um specification how 1 might do that with verifiable credentials as well although I think they're likely doing it in a more proprietary fashion um for their actual product. Phil_Long_(T3): It's certainly something I'd be nice to hear from them about what you know their upcoming camera release that's already hitting the the photo mags at the moment with this um with this description of documenting the um authenticity of the of the image at time of capture. Kimberly Linson: Definitely I and I I yeah we'll we'll do some work on who who that might be but um that sounds fascinating. Kimberly Linson: Who else who else has an idea for somebody we want to have come speak to us. Kimberly Linson: Or wants to raise their hand because they want to come speak to us. <dmitri_zagidulin> we should also invite the Guardian Project and/or Starling Labs Kimberly Linson: What is the guardian um Demetri what is the Guardian Project um at Sterling and or Sterling labs. Dmitri Zagidulin: So I was reminded uh by Phil mentioning Sony signing images directly from the chip uh the Guardian Project in Starling labs. Dmitri Zagidulin: Um are trying to do it on the application Level so they have a free mobile app. Dmitri Zagidulin: That essentially puts a digital signature on pictures and videos used by journalists uh basically to document war crimes or any other sort of. Dmitri Zagidulin: Reporting where the uh Providence chain is important either Anonymous or vetted so. Dmitri Zagidulin: Really good projects who are using digital signatures to Secure Media and who are exploring the use of verifiable credentials. Kimberly Linson: Great thank you. <phil_long_(t3)> Starling Labs link: <will> There is this https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/blob/main/work_items.md but it is old Kimberly Linson: Thank you well so much for bringing that up because I think that's been on on Harrison and I's mind that was definitely something that that Mike was um really spearheading and and able to kind of keep keep keep on top of and so um and will definitely um has has as he's just said volunteered to kind of help with that and and I don't really know how to direct him um so I'm as I'm looking um out here I'm wondering if you might might be able to kind of guide us um and give us some historical perspective on on how. Kimberly Linson: How work items were managed and how like. Kimberly Linson: Yeah anything you can you can give us would be helpful. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I don't have a lot to offer on that I'm afraid uh I'm my involvement with that was mostly on editing the documents associated with it um. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): The process associated with work items. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Is in the ccg repositories and I did some clean up on that but that's the extent of my involvement. Kimberly Linson: Okay um and I did actually um in preparation for this meeting today I did actually pull up um. Kimberly Linson: And I'll. <phil_long_(t3)> Starling Labs Mission to Authentic the Our Digital World: https://www.decential.io/articles/starling-labs-mission-to-authenticate-our-digital-world Kimberly Linson: Put in the in the chat the work item process. Kimberly Linson: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/workitem-process/ Kimberly Linson: And that you know that's helpful for anyone who is interested in um proposing a new work item. Kimberly Linson: To to to have that link and you can kind of go through and see the process for being able to to propose something um I think what we're what will and Harrison and I have been talking about is you know how how to really manage this work as it as it moves forward and make sure that we're we're keeping the community um. Kimberly Linson: In the know and also giving you opportunities as as a new folks are joining this community giving opportunities to participate in that in that work that that that they can easily find and be connected to um and so that's a um. Kimberly Linson: That's definitely something that I think we're we're finding um a challenge now that this community is so large is how do we. Kimberly Linson: How do we how do we plug folks folks in where they want to be be plugged in um so um. Kimberly Linson: I'll open up the queue to to sort of respond to that. Kimberly Linson: And if I don't get a response. Kimberly Linson: I will call on Jeff who who I know is is really good at thinking about sort of how humans connect to this um and has been around this community for a long time and if you've got any kind of insight into best practices um ways that we can kind of keep people plugged into the work I'd really appreciate your your feedback. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: First of all I'm going to do a mic test can you hear me and am I the I'm the. Kimberly Linson: Yeah we can hear you we can hear you great. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Right on and I'm the Jeff you're talking about huh. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Um I would like to ask a blessing if you would please restate it only in that I was thinking about some CES stuff. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Got back from regarding the uh provenance um. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Image stamping um that was just brought up and there were 2 companies I was trying to figure the other 1 out. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: so I was. <kaliya_identity_woman> There is my newsletter that is free - comes out weekly - https://newsletter.identosphere.net/ Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Half listening would you please restate that and I'd love to give some feedback. Kimberly Linson: Sure and I agree I was really I'm really excited about that work as well I think it's the uh Guardian Project in Starling Labs um was that those were the the 2 that I wrote down in my notes to go go research uh later and I so I totally get it um I just we're well in Harrison and I have been talking a little bit about making sure that. Kimberly Linson: That that in addition to the education aspect that that the ccg provides that we're also you know really making sure that work moves forward that there are work items in progress that that the work items are are well documented and everybody knows kind of where to go to find them and look at them and that we're we're able to really help folks who are new to this community plug in to those work items um and I'm just wondering if from a historical perspective you have you know sort of how that's been done in the past and and how you might help us. Kimberly Linson: Maybe bring that a little more to the Forefront than it has been in in the last year and year or 2. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Wow that's um I appreciate um being uh referenced on this 1 I will say this. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Took me a couple years to understand really what was going on in these conversations of just persistent listening and understanding so I kind of rough-housed my way into this um. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Over time I've acclimated so I'd have to think back on what was rough for me or what was it uh what was friction full um in terms of the acquainting myself with the community and also I'm kind of a hybrid I'm not necessarily as technically um bound and bi um I don't have the bindings to the need to get into GitHub and all that cool stuff which I wish I understood better. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: So I'm going to take that question to the side and think about it a bit it is a great question I feel I'm kind of in a weird way because I have acclimated to you all and I sort of forgot the old days when I was fresh and new to it um yet there's always the edge space of learning fresh and new things which I do try and keep track of so can I contemplate that and did I capture what you were asking accurately. Kimberly Linson: You you can and I think the takeaway from hearing from both you and Tall Ted is that maybe they're maybe there isn't hasn't been a really like in other words Harrison and and and will and I have been thinking about going back to something that we we haven't been doing but but maybe the truth is we need to actually think about just from from a blank slate like how how would we like how would we like to manage um work items how would we like to to have community members propose them and how would we like to get folks connected to those work items um and so that I actually feel like the 2 of you have been very helpful in letting. Kimberly Linson: Letting us know that really there there isn't until like oh well you you know you all should be doing X um. Kimberly Linson: So that's that is actually a helpful answer. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Right on and I'll outro um a springboard off of something you just said about the idea of whiteboarding um on almost any topic when I think about the when I think about human nature which has a lot to do with learning and that kind of thing which is sort of what we're talking about. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: That there are some real commonalities to that and I think uh the idea of a whiteboard like if you took uh 100 people from all across the planet that could be technologists it could be folks who are Tech averse and bring them into a room with whiteboard and say if you were to learn something about something hard that had maybe these characteristics and you could point out some technological you know technology rough spots how do you how would you like to learn about things like this and I think that there would be a real core commonality there that the fact you have completely new and. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: Um well you you wouldn't want the average bear from out of nowhere stepping into this but someone who's at least inclined to be thinking about it that would be your community I suppose. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: And just ask them what works best and I think you'll find a common bell curve there and maybe you guys can pull from that Harvest. Jeff_O_/_HumanOS: The way to reaching and um sharing of knowledge and stuff. Kimberly Linson: Great that's really helpful. Kimberly Linson: All right anybody else want to jump in and contribute to the conversation talk about what they're thinking what's on their I'm happy to hear kind of what what's on your mind about 2024 and where you hope this this. Kimberly Linson: Work in credentials and however it it touches your work um is going um definitely this is the purpose of this meeting is today is kind of to to be thinking about what's top of mind and we've heard some really interesting things already um so I'd like to just open it up again to anybody who wants to share what's on their on their mind for 2024. <dmitri_zagidulin> at some point it would be great to have the OWF present again, just like, give updates Kimberly Linson: All right I'm gonna um I'm gonna see if if Wendy I know you've been around this community for a long time too and and I'd really love to hear what what is sort of top of mind around credentials for you this year and if you don't mind sharing that. Wendy_Seltzer: Uh thanks Kimberly um for me uh this is the year of governance and so I'm looking beyond the. Wendy_Seltzer: Technology specifics uh at uh what we need to do to bring the people and organizations together to. Wendy_Seltzer: Uh agree on uh terms of interaction on uh The Binding of those terms uh so that participants can um. <harrison_tang> We had OWF present in December. We are trying to get their technical folks to present on digital wallet capabilities right now, but the schedule hasn't been nailed down yet. <jeff_o_/_humanos> Nikon, Canon & Sony https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/nikon-sony-and-canon-cameras-will-soon-embed-watermarks-in-photos Wendy_Seltzer: Comfortable uh engaging knowing that uh if they have expectations about privacy uh those are met through the combination of technology and uh enforceable rules uh and commitments um so um I I'm doing a lot of uh thinking uh over with that the folks in trust over IP Foundation uh looking at their uh. Wendy_Seltzer: Governance stack and um in my work at 2 Cass I'm uh thinking about what sorts of organizational uh structures and and agreements we need and uh so that the technology is a a component um of of of of that um and I welcome. Wendy_Seltzer: Conversations with other people who are uh thinking about governance. Kimberly Linson: Thank you I think that is definitely something we need to to put on the list and I know you know. Kimberly Linson: From from where I sit. Kimberly Linson: We're we're getting. Kimberly Linson: Customers and clients I was trying to think of how my my project manager said um that it's like. Kimberly Linson: It's like the the customer just just bought us a a grain Harvester and then and then we get in with our grain Harvester and they figure out they they they've just bought the farm and they haven't even planted anything yet um and so we're we're needing to do a lot of that that back work and and and we're not sort of prepared for that so I think the idea of of really having a blueprint and and understanding. <jeff_o_/_humanos> CES AI 2024 Governance https://live.ces.tech/detail/6344703413112/ai-2024 Kimberly Linson: Really truly the nuts and bolts of of how to help someone think through governance is is you're right like this has got to be the year because people are are like we're ready to move and they're and they're basically moving forward without a plan that the governance would would provide and so they're making decisions on the fly when if they had just stopped for a minute and thought through those decisions they could have done it in a much more intentional way so I I'm I'm excited definitely to be um talking with you about that uh in 2024. Kaliya Young: Um this is sort of building on the question you were asking about like supporting new people and orientation to the community um I think I had this vision of like newbie calls. Kaliya Young: Potentially being hosted collaboratively with diff um. Kaliya Young: Because there is a lot of activity there maybe even if and Trust over IP who knows like but let's start small with like 1 collaboration that maybe doable um. Kaliya Young: Is um because Kim Hamilton Duffy's now the executive director of deaf. Kaliya Young: She used to share this group I think. Kaliya Young: So it's but there's a sort of feels like an opening potential of new collaboration. Kaliya Young: That might make sense to brooch. Kimberly Linson: I love that. Kaliya Young: Because the goal is to get people to go to the place within this broad community of which there are several different organizations hosting spaces where they will be the most. Kaliya Young: Connected right and that's in all of them are not in CG yetev or inside trust or write P or it's the open-ended Foundation etc etc. Kimberly Linson: It's a great. <harrison_tang> i think a combined newbie call is a great idea! Kimberly Linson: I will reach out I will reach out to Kim and we can we can talk about that that I I like your idea of sort of like 2 and then we could add a third and then we could eventually like as you were talking a sort of picturing how nice it would be to have sort of like a. Kimberly Linson: Session across all the communities where each sort of group had like you know 5 minutes to sort of say here's what we do here's our here's our our perspective on the community here's our our our perspective um and give everyone a chance to kind of like I would love that I feel like I would learn a lot from from that kind of a um and I definitely um love the idea of uh of of you know we we've done some newbie calls before in this community and they were very very valuable uh and and I came in to this community. <harrison_tang> i was a newbie once, and it was really hard to know what's going on in different communities. actually, it was Kaliya who helped me out Kimberly Linson: 34 Um and we'll and we'll actually add that to to my list um Harrison I'm going to go ahead and um actually I will go to the queue first um and then Harrison maybe I'll let you live that leave the last word so Bob. Bob Wyman: Yeah I don't. Bob Wyman: I have a. Bob Wyman: Are in detail to say about this I and. Bob Wyman: Stepped up for a moment so somebody else might have said this but I I personally would like to see. Bob Wyman: Uh the credentials. Bob Wyman: Is much more in the Social Web context I know that's going to be addressed in a future meeting but um I think um. Bob Wyman: A lot of the applications that people have talked about it but you know they've been sort of administrative commercial Etc but I think I think um. Bob Wyman: Hasn't been as much. Bob Wyman: Controls in the social context in the sort of the non-monetary non-transactional world um and I think that's that's going to be an important area to uh. Bob Wyman: To get into I'm looking forward to that in the future. Kimberly Linson: Agreed that's a that's a great way right so much of our Lives now are lived in that in that way and and thinking about how credentials can be used there makes a lot of makes a lot of sense and and maybe how we can sort of start to. Kimberly Linson: You know streamline some of some of this um uh Harrison I'm gonna give you the last. Kimberly Linson: Last word since we're almost at time. Harrison_Tang: All right thanks Kimberly uh thanks for moderating the conversations uh I think uh for me uh ccg uh is holds a special place because this is the uh my kind of newbie initiation Community for me to kind of learn about these uh topics and I think uh going forward uh you know CGI is what the community makes out to be right so if there's uh topics that people want to uh hear about or talk about uh please just reach out to any of the cultures uh so that we can help uh schedule and align them in our content calendar um so uh Bob actually we do have uh uh demetry here well you will be kind of talking about Social Web community group updates on the februari 13th uh so we do have that conversation coming up and if there's other uh if there are other topics that Social Web. Harrison_Tang: That uh uh or if you know a personally right uh please uh help us uh introduce that and then we can have uh them to talk about those uh things in detail such as web fingers and and the activity Pub you know those kind of uh uh protocols um. Harrison_Tang: Well kind of to preview uh for next week we have VC test Suite uh and then the week after that we got the ID DHT uh distribute the hash table and then the week after that we got modular open source identity platform and then on the 13th of febuary we got a Social Web community group and we're trying to uh schedule um topics after the 13th of febuary uh right now I'm I found um the email of uh uh lender Rosenthal and then uh we'll try to get him to give the update on the c2p Coalition of content Providence and authenticity that uh. Harrison_Tang: With an intervention earlier um in the lineup uh we also have tried to get the VC 2.0 updates as well as the bit stream uh status list uh coming up so anyway these are the preview of topics that we're going to kind of talk about there's an area that last year people mentioned want to hear more about which is the intersection between Ai and identity uh so far we haven't had a lot of success so if there's a there are people that you think can uh who will be willing to share their knowledge uh on the intersection of identity and AI uh please uh pin any of us we would love to lighten them up uh because that's 1 area that uh that's in my kind of uh to-do list that we haven't had a lot of success on um anyway so those are the big topics uh another area that where I would love to um improve upon or have. Harrison_Tang: room for. Harrison_Tang: Just more work items right uh uh more work activities So to that extent. Harrison_Tang: People can uh give us suggestions and how how we can actually execute toward that uh that would be uh very much appreciated. Harrison_Tang: Thanks but look forward to a great 2024 again uh the community is what the communities uh makes it to be right so uh please uh feel free to give us constructive criticisms uh and feedback and we'll try to improve. <rashmi_siravara> I have good pointer's on credentials for next week based on today's meeting Kimberly Linson: Great thank you thank you all this was really enjoyable I learned a lot and I'm excited about um researching some of the uh interesting things um that I learned a lot today. Kimberly Linson: Thank you all.
Received on Wednesday, 17 January 2024 19:47:50 UTC