- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 13:14:22 +0000
- To: public-credentials@w3.org
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-12-16-vc-education/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-12-16-vc-education/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-12-16.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2024-12-16 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2024Dec/0005.html Organizer: Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin Scribe: Our Robot Overlords Present: Dmitri Zagidulin, Simone Ravaoli, Ildiko Mazar, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Don Presant, David Ward, Eric Shepherd, Phil Barker, Kaliya Young, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Jeff O / HumanOS Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right now it's on uh so as always calls are recorded uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: You got to be a member of the group to contribute to Specs uh though these calls are open to anyone uh we're under w3c code of conduct uh yeah let's uh let's get started is anybody new here that want to introduce themselves. Dmitri Zagidulin: And if not are there any Community announcements. Dmitri Zagidulin: Fortunately I think not too much is going on in the space right now pretty holidays everybody's. Dmitri Zagidulin: That's right that's right. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah yeah it's it's very pleasant although I do know of a couple of education related teams that are like oh no we gotta we gotta do something by the end of December either to spend the budget or to ship something so I I know some people Are Burning Midnight Oil. Dmitri Zagidulin: But hopefully it's. Dmitri Zagidulin: Nobody here okay so uh in that case no announcements uh no introductions let's move on to our main agenda which is hey do. Dmitri Zagidulin: Of questions discussion topics or just tell us what you're working on uh we're always interested in if you're working on a pilot or uh documentation issuing verifying whatever vaguely related to. Dmitri Zagidulin: Potentials and or education uh please feel free to raise your hand hop on a queue. Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh especially like the share a sample credential part that. Dmitri Zagidulin: That's a really good. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah great question uh it'll be you know up on the queue. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah that's a really good point I think a lot of people especially uh teams that are starting on something would love to see that I think 2 such a repository I would say is the is the diff uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Credential schema here I'll I'll throw a link but you you know what I'm talking about it's that spec where. Dmitri Zagidulin: Where Kim uh and and the dip team are collecting uh various examples. Dmitri Zagidulin: Wonder if we can make it even easier for people to share by just we can Kickstart just a Google doc that say Hey you know just paste yours right below alright so that you don't have to make up all requests to to to the repo or anything like that just like informally based something here I think that would be an amazing start. Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh yeah so let me find. <ildiko_mazar> I would be very happy to share some of our creds Dmitri Zagidulin: Anybody does anybody else know uh Sam repositories of samples of uh verify the credentials for people to look at. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah credential schema standards. Dmitri Zagidulin: https://identity.foundation/credential-schemas/ Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah and I think if like just like us here has uh here here it is in jitsu. Dmitri Zagidulin: Driven by the exact same. Dmitri Zagidulin: Um motivations as as what we just mentioned uh wants to start getting more schemes as well but yeah let's let's just kick kick off a um a Google doc we can share it to the VC Edge. <ildiko_mazar> :+1: Dmitri Zagidulin: Drive and and and pass it around here and on the mailing list because I think it would be interesting we got a little bit of that effect by the way um last year at the jmf plug vests so that would probably be the closest thing we have to sample credentials that. Dmitri Zagidulin: A bunch of implementers issuers verifiers and wallets interoperate with uh but those were yeah uh Simon go ahead. Dmitri Zagidulin: Agreed yeah so hey let's let's do this uh 2-tiered mechanism we'll start up a Google doc for anybody to paste and comment and then of the of the ones that are a bit more formalized we can uh pass them over to the div credential schema Repository. Dmitri Zagidulin: Back uh for those of you uh who who are just joining us we were talking about whether there's a. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh if there's any example credential repositories that we know of uh that. <ildiko_mazar> Great! Thanks. We can tag these examples as well if that would be helpful Dmitri Zagidulin: For for us to look at because the first thing at least I asked whenever talking to somebody who consider implementing credentials or is in the process of a pilot is hey can you send us a copy of your of the raw Json of the data model that you're using right so we can judge where whether how heavy of a lift it would be to make our software compatible with it and so on so I think I think everybody wants it nobody doesn't want it so let's just make it happen. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah and so I I totally agree with uh with Simone that we we we of course want to get a sense for. Dmitri Zagidulin: Test sandbox credentials and ones in production. Dmitri Zagidulin: Although I do want to to caution that uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Even that is not indicative of a standard set in stone because even in production it's still schemas are evolving teams are learning right so for example um 1 1 of the universities in the Consortium I think it was McMasters University uh started issuing diploma credentials I think even as early as like 2 years ago right so it's in production but I wouldn't say that yes that's a. Dmitri Zagidulin: That's a. Dmitri Zagidulin: I know I. Dmitri Zagidulin: Could use it right. Dmitri Zagidulin: They've learned a lot from it it was a. Dmitri Zagidulin: It was best guesses at the time so we want to make sure to not set schemas and cement but of course. Dmitri Zagidulin: We also want to be interoperable it's it's the usual Razor's Edge that we try to walk. Dmitri Zagidulin: In standards land. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right anyone else uh is there any other questions. Dmitri Zagidulin: Challenges that your teams are running into or topic discussions. Dmitri Zagidulin: What are we going to. Dmitri Zagidulin: To deal with International. Dmitri Zagidulin: And just to answer my own question oh hey you. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah agreed I didn't real developer usability. Dmitri Zagidulin: Explain me how easy it is is it for developers to understand the data model and to come up with variations of it that that's that's huge of course. Dmitri Zagidulin: And I think we all know that uh both in the area of credentials in general and. Dmitri Zagidulin: In specific those are not the easiest specs in examples to understand which is why we want many many examples for developers to look at. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah absolutely and and the other thing we we see a lot because so we hear this question a lot like uh okay we're interested in testing out verifiable credential what should we start with transcript diploma student ID or course credential. Dmitri Zagidulin: I always recommend you should probably start with whatever the lightest lift probably a course credential because for an issuer to sign off on a schema for a transcript that imagine how many. Dmitri Zagidulin: How many. <ildiko_mazar> Same in Europe, Dmitri Dmitri Zagidulin: Stakeholders at least here in the US right how many stakeholders it's uh it involves like the registar the lawyers uh like it's a it's a primary export of a university and so everybody cares about it whereas if you just like pick up professor and pick a a course to try on and say yeah just just do that there's much less sign off it's it's not the full University behind it it's it's something you can try yeah good mentions and chat that same deal in your yeah. Dmitri Zagidulin: I didn't want. Dmitri Zagidulin: I briefly going back to internationalization so uh so so we've got a situation where we have at least 3 different. Dmitri Zagidulin: Multi language credential uh uh mechanisms in use. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh only 1 of which is supported by open badges version 3 so I I highly suspect we need to file some issues if we haven't already um it will be V3 spec and say listen here's the other mechanisms let's have a road map for when we can support those as well. Dmitri Zagidulin: And by the other mechanisms I mean of course. Dmitri Zagidulin: So there's the related mechanism that open badges uses for for translating credentials there's the European learning data model internationalization scheme and then there's uh just the. Dmitri Zagidulin: General verifiable credential VC data model 2.0 way of international law. Dmitri Zagidulin: Ing so so we do need to align on that stuff eventually. Dmitri Zagidulin: Anyone else questions concerns. Dmitri Zagidulin: Chairs how do we feel about making 1 of our roadmap goals uh for next year uh which is to issue credentials of membership in uh in the group. Dmitri Zagidulin: Ccg member and you attend the call here's a here's a VC edu badge by 5 credenza. Dmitri Zagidulin: We could tell. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh please do please do right like we we could be the first um task force or group in a w3c. Dmitri Zagidulin: Let's do it we can lead by example. <ildiko_mazar> I think I may have already built myself a sample EDC for the VC Edu Co-Chairship earlier this year (blush) <dmitri_zagidulin> lol NICE <kaliya_identity_woman> This is Diffusion of Innovation "theory" Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah that's a really good point the 10 times better thing is tough right because I think it's really Kalia points out in chat of that this relates to the diffusion of innovation Theory. <kaliya_identity_woman> Everett Rogers <ildiko_mazar> It would already be 10 times better is digital credentials were implemented at a greater scale Eric_Shepherd: Simone I tried to raise my hand but I couldn't couldn't do it very successfully um another way of looking at it rather than saying 10 times better is to think of a force diagram so what are the uh forces pushing things forward and what's what's the forces pushing it back so and and then you can help build on the forces pushing forward and neutralize the forces pushing back so force is pushing back might be political we've always done it this way it might be Financial uh to change our systems and processes is going to be expensive it might be ownership but analyzing that those forces in play can can uh often help you identify why why things are not happening that seem obvious that they should be happening. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah it's a really good point thanks Eric. Dmitri Zagidulin: The other the other reason that I think that I think we should uh take it on as a as a roadmap item specifically issuing a verifiable credential for membership to the task force or like having attended a. Dmitri Zagidulin: A uh a call is. Dmitri Zagidulin: If we write it up as a case study. Dmitri Zagidulin: Because it's it's a use case that everybody can understand right just membership in a group but in when you start getting down to the details what's the data model going to be and what's going to be the operational friction of like. <kaliya_identity_woman> Grace Rachmany is working on this use-case Dmitri Zagidulin: Does it mean that there's a 3 co-authors the signing key going to be stored well we could we could all like paste paste the seed for the signing private key into our password managers right but until or we can use a key management system on the cloud but but until you read a case study and realize that oh in order for for me to issue even the simplest of credentials. Dmitri Zagidulin: Needs to control the the signing key and and how do you do that organizationally I I think that that might be helpful for people. Dmitri Zagidulin: It says Grace with Manny is working on this use case which use case group membership. Kaliya Young: Yeah group belonging group membership as like her primary focus. Dmitri Zagidulin: A very cool do do you have a link is there like repo or group or project. Kaliya Young: Uh I have documents that I'm not sure are public yet but I could definitely introduce her and invite her like in you guys could see if she's a fit to come and. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah yeah could you could you do that yeah just just like start start an email thread uh CC icos Simon and myself and and her and just be like hey come come talk to come talk about group membership at VC Edge that would be wonderful. Dmitri Zagidulin: Other thoughts questions. Dmitri Zagidulin: I think a couple of iws uh previously IBEW itself was I think offering um. <david_ward> How can something like https://sigstore.dev be used with VCs for short-lived keys instead of having to keep the keys by the issuers. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh uh conference attendance badges through some partner or other. Kaliya Young: Some ambitious startups were uh were working on that and like piggybacked off us sure but I don't know it didn't necessarily come from us right but we were like oh God. Dmitri Zagidulin: Right right right right. Kaliya Young: Actually I think we're actually getting to the point where. Kaliya Young: W40 it would be great to do honestly. Kaliya Young: You know I think. Kaliya Young: People also understand how incredibly budget constrained iaw is like it it um. Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh for sure. Kaliya Young: That's what it does really well and it there isn't a lot of cushion around the edges for. Kaliya Young: Interesting projects so we'll see. Dmitri Zagidulin: David Worden chat uh points points at sigstore Dev and ask a question of. <simone_ravaioli> Would you rather want a T-shirt or a Credential ? Dmitri Zagidulin: Would it be possible to use something like that to do short-lived Keys uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Simone asks and Chad would you rather want a t-shirt or credential how about both a t-shirt that is a credential just print the QR code and you're done. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh David do you want to do you want to speak to your question. Dmitri Zagidulin: But we can hear you we can hear you go ahead. Dmitri Zagidulin: It does it does what that requires to make it work is. Dmitri Zagidulin: Issue Registries essentially you you need an initial register mechanism that is flexible enough. Dmitri Zagidulin: To be able to uh uh show that you know I delegated to the signing key even though the key itself like lasts for an hour or whatever I I delegated to it from the you know top level key or so yes like something like that would definitely be possible I just don't think we're there yet infrastructure and specification wise. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah it's a really good. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right well last call other other thoughts and questions otherwise we can end a bit early give everybody a chance to go get call. Dmitri Zagidulin: And I really appreciate the the discussion so far this has been interesting. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right takeaways let's start a Google doc or VC samples and let's issue group membership credential. <jeff_o_/_humanos> You guys are great! Have a great Holiday! Dmitri Zagidulin: And thank you all uh we let us all reconvene uh after New Year's. <ildiko_mazar> Happy holidays
Received on Tuesday, 17 December 2024 13:14:29 UTC