[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2024-08-20

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-08-20/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-08-20/audio.ogg

A video recording is also available at:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-08-20.mp4

----------------------------------------------------------------
W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2024-08-20

Agenda:
  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Aug&period_year=2024&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Organizer:
  Harrison Tang, Kimberly Linson, Will Abramson
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Harrison Tang, Rashmi Siravara, MG (GoPlausible), Gregory Natran, 
  Alex Tweeddale, Will Abramson, Phil Long, Sam Smith, Joe Andrieu, 
  TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Simone 
  Ravaoli, Geun-Hyung, Mike Xu, Jennie M, Leo, Anil John, Przemek 
  Praszczalek, Kaliya Young, Hiroyuki Sano, julien fraichot, Dmitri 
  Zagidulin, Tim Bloomfield, Jeff O - HumanOS, Lucy Yang, Ankur 
  Banerjee, David I. Lehn, Stephan Baur

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Welcome welcome everyone for uh for attending this 
  week so that we meeting uh today we're very pleased to have Alex 
  and the Encore from check uh to provide an update on did link 
  resources 1 of our w3c ccg work items but before we start I just 
  want to quickly run through the administrative uh items.
Harrison_Tang: First of all just a quick reminder on the code of 
  ethics and professional conduct I just want to make sure we have 
  constructed uh constructive and respectful conversations here.
Harrison_Tang: Uh next a quick note on the intellectual property 
  um anyone can participate in these calls however all substantive 
  contributions to any ccg work items must be member of the ccg 
  with full IPR agreement signed uh if you have any questions in 
  regards to uh that or the or having a w3c account uh please uh 
  contact any of the cultures.
Harrison_Tang: Um these meetings are being automatically recorded 
  and the transcribed uh so we use GT chat to cue the speakers 
  during the call so type in the queue plus to add yourself to the 
  queue or cue minus to remove uh you can type in Q question mark 
  uh to see who is in the queue.
Harrison_Tang:  we will.
Harrison_Tang: Published uh meeting minutes audio and video 
  recordings uh in the next uh 24 to 48 hours.
Harrison_Tang: All right I think I just want to take a quick 
  moment for the introductions and introductions so if you're new 
  to the community what you haven't been active and want to 
  re-engage uh please feel free to just unmute you don't have to 
  type in Q Plus or anything.
Harrison_Tang: Announcements and reminders any announcements or 
  reminders.
Harrison_Tang: A quick preview of what's coming so today we're 
  we're going to talk about the did link resources and uh next week 
  uh we'll have Gregory uh and Joanie uh from the IAC from Canada 
  to talk about paying Canadian trust framework.
Harrison_Tang:  and then.
Harrison_Tang: Greg to uh do a follow-up on the anonymous holder 
  binding a great session that we had.
Harrison_Tang: Uh about uh 2 months ago.
Harrison_Tang: And then I'll try to I think there's a great email 
  thread around the proof of personhood so I'll try to schedule 
  that conversation uh in the next 2 months uh as well as the proof 
  of uh Humanity uh 1 of the projects in dif.
Harrison_Tang: By any other announcements and.
Harrison_Tang: And or reminders.
Harrison_Tang: Write 1 more announcement and uh is that on 
  september 24th.
Harrison_Tang: There's a w3c pack uh week and a lot of people 
  won't be there uh here today so on that day sorry so we'll cancel 
  the ccg meeting on september 24th and then the October 29th is 
  the internet identity Workshop IBEW so we'll cancel that session 
  as well on the October 29th.
Harrison_Tang: All right Clea.
Kaliya Young:  Hi uh hear about we have Internet identity 
  Workshop coming up I think early bird pricing is still around for 
  another we're so.
Kaliya Young:  Um the damn conference Africa is the same week as 
  TPAC if you know folks in the region please let them know about 
  it it looks like it's going to be fun apparently our local hosts 
  have been on television and everything uh sharing about it coming 
  to tan.
Kaliya Young:  So that's all I have thanks.
Harrison_Tang: Any other announcements or reminders.
Kaliya Young: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
Harrison_Tang: Right next uh work items uh a quick update on the 
  work items so Isaiah uh who's actually leaving the verifiable 
  issuers and verifiers uh wasn't able to attend last week but uh 
  he actually sent out an update so they're working on a data model 
  for issuers list and claim to publish the first version by the 
  end of October so I'll try to work with him and uh have him come 
  to speak about that version the first version of verifiable 
  issuers and verifiers sometime in November or December.
Harrison_Tang: Other uh work item updates.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1usTxVbq1LmtvVIP1ixK0FB9R4S1Fhq4kgpA0W25W4HQ/edit#slide=id.g2f0a12c6cca_3_110
Harrison_Tang: Uh and by the way I updated the.
Harrison_Tang: The work guidance deck uh with that update uh in 
  the link that I just shared.
Harrison_Tang: Cool so uh let's get to the main agenda so again 
  we're very very happy to have Alex and Anker here to uh talk 
  about the did link resources so Alex the floor is yours.
Alex_Tweeddale: Great I think it's just me at the moment um 
  anchors anchor will jump in in about 5 minutes or so um but yeah 
  let's let's kick off uh I'll put this into slideshow mode as well 
  um so I'll give a bit of context on what did linked resources are 
  I think that some people on the call will have a broad 
  understanding of what they can do others will be completely new 
  to the space so I think we'll start from Basics and then we can 
  get into some of the complexity later on um for a bit of context 
  we've we've been working on this did linked resource standard for 
  about 2 years now.
Alex_Tweeddale: Last year we started writing the draft spec.
Alex_Tweeddale: W3c and that's got to a sort of v0.1 state now 
  where we'd love to have some contributions but I'll I'll get into 
  that later in the in the presentation so I'm going to run through 
  what did looked resources are uh what applications there are at 
  the moment in in sort of in yeah in the real world um how what 
  problems did Lincoln resources solve um and their applications.
Alex_Tweeddale: So uh I guess the first question that I want to 
  ask as a sort of rhetorical question is why are resources needed 
  in digital identity and this kind of leads on to what resources 
  are in this context.
Alex_Tweeddale: And sort of in a nutshell a resource can be any 
  structured file um stored on Ledger uh or off Ledger this 
  actually I should certainly update that to say off Ledger as well 
  within a specific syntax um so in decentralized identity 
  specifically we often use things like schemas status lists trust 
  Registries as sort of files that we associate with.
Alex_Tweeddale: Decentralized identifiers and verifiable 
  credentials but the actual ways that these files are stored is 
  often quite varied so for example schemas are a really good 
  example of a resource uh they're used to describe the attributes 
  within a verifiable credential in a machine readable format and 
  you know prominent examples of where schemas are stored are 
  schema.org uh which is probably the most common 1 uh then there's 
  other sort of Alternatives such as you know the hyperledger Indy 
  Community which uses on Ledger schemas.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um and schemas are naturally used in identity 
  documents and VCS uh and it they become increasingly important um 
  when we're talking about verifying a credential because you need 
  to be able to match that the actual credential you're being 
  presented uh sort of conforms to the schema that is referenced in 
  the credential.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um so you know in an example uh so 1 example is 
  you know here on the left hand side we have a schema shoot or a 
  driver's license uh issued in 2012 and on the right hand side we 
  have 1 in 2015 and what you can see is some of the attributes 
  within the 1 in 2015 of being updated um but because both of 
  these drivers licenses are still you know valid uh you know 
  there's an overlap in terms of when they are both valid uh 
  verifying applications will need to be able to discern uh or be 
  able to verify both of these schemas at the same time so we need 
  a way to be able to update these types of resources without 1 
  being sort of deprecated or 1 sort of uh resulting in an error.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um so here you can see just a like a quick a 
  quick glance that some of these attributes um on the right have 
  been updated so this 1 includes height weight and eyes whereas 
  the 1 on the left does not include white hypnosis um and we need 
  to make sure that the 1 on issued in 2015 doesn't invalidate the 
  1 issued in 2012 um so both of these should still be higher level 
  of assurance schemas.
Alex_Tweeddale: And this is a problem for apps in the real world 
  specifically with regards to verifying credentials um and we've 
  all encountered you know computer says no.
Alex_Tweeddale: Is in this context.
Alex_Tweeddale: If we don't learn from sort of the mistakes of 
  the past where you know we we've run into these issues then I 
  think we're we're falling into a bit of trap with in this new 
  sort of identity paradigm.
Alex_Tweeddale: Similarly uh you know I think with regards to 
  resources like schemas and Status lists.
Alex_Tweeddale: Points of failure is also a really big potential 
  issue in the space I think we've seen a lot of convergence around 
  the methods like did web did did tvw which I'll get on to it a 
  bit later in the presentation um but you know we've seen large 
  Global outages recently with regards to Microsoft we've seen 
  previous ones with Facebook and I think if we're going to build 
  an identity system around um these types of resources we should 
  try and mitigate as much as possible uh single points of failure.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um thirdly uh a lot of resources that are 
  currently stored um are on kind of centralized Cloud 
  infrastructure so this graph on the left here shows that you know 
  most of what is stored on servers around the world is actually 
  narrowly around 3 or 4 Cloud infrastructure providers um which 
  makes Global outages or systemic outages um a lot more common uh 
  if say a big provider like AWS goes down it could take down a lot 
  of potential system.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um and then finally there's this concept of Link 
  rot uh which we talked about a lot which is and I if I go back to 
  the example of the schema analogy which I showed previously we 
  need to make sure that you know if we have a driver's license 
  which potentially has a lifespan of you know 30 40 years we need 
  to make sure that a schema that was issued 30 40 years ago.
Alex_Tweeddale: That the link for that schema doesn't break you 
  know.
Alex_Tweeddale: Lot a long way down the track um this diagram on 
  the left here shows that um I can't remember the date I think it 
  was since the late 90s 47.7% of all links on the internet have 
  now died um and if we don't look at that as a issue when we're 
  building these sort of.
Alex_Tweeddale: Identity credentials with longevity then um we'll 
  run into similar sort of.
Alex_Tweeddale: Issues with resolving to these resources going 
  forward.
Alex_Tweeddale: Another issue I think that I touched on slightly 
  earlier is.
Alex_Tweeddale: We are converging around some I would say more 
  centralized methods I don't have a problem with this at all but I 
  think we should be mindful of some of the potential implications 
  of this um so with did web specifically you know I think we all 
  most many of us on the call are aware of the challenges of it um 
  but it is also a very simplistic and easy to use div method but 
  yes if if a hosting provider is hacked or goes down um that could 
  potentially affect the system and did TDW you know go some of the 
  way to solve those problems but you know if you can't access the 
  did log file and you know the historic sort of records of the did 
  itself then you might run into similar challenges as well um but 
  I don't want to go into detail on the TDW or did web in this call 
  that's not the point of it um so yeah resources did linked 
  resources uh just to summarize are.
Alex_Tweeddale: Are a way of mitigating some of the risks of this 
  sort of downtime on these critical components of the uh 
  credential and identity ecosystems that we are currently all sort 
  of rapidly uh getting ourselves involved in um.
Alex_Tweeddale: Actually going to skip this do this section 
  after.
Alex_Tweeddale: I should know.
Alex_Tweeddale: I I'll go I'll go straight into it now.
Alex_Tweeddale: So how are resources being used in the world so I 
  touched on some uh examples of where resources could be used so 
  schemas status list trust Registries um since we actually 
  launched the specification or started writing the specification 2 
  years ago we've been working on a couple of initiatives and you 
  know we've had a lot of community members working on initiatives 
  for resources so recently uh diff and Dan ubtech um have well 
  Daniel Tech has been commissioned to build did linked resources 
  into both the universal registar and the universal resolver.
Alex_Tweeddale: And what that actually means is that um anyone 
  who is using some of these common interfaces to create 
  decentralized identifiers or did should equally be able to create 
  did linked resources um and resolve to did linked resources.
Alex_Tweeddale: This is not this is in zero way linked to checks 
  um this is something that we worked on but the whole point of 
  doing this in w3c and with diff is to make sure that any did 
  method is able to use the linked resources and you know any 
  verifier application should be able to resolve different 
  resources not withstanding the actual Ledger or did method being 
  used under the hood um and we want to create a sort of common 
  syntax for these types of resources uh which yeah can be used 
  with did web could be used with did epsi did indeed did check 
  whatever um and we hope that some of this work on the delivery 
  sources as well will be considered as part of the new did traits 
  work.
Alex_Tweeddale: So yeah 0.1 is where working to get this into the 
  universal resolve and registrar.
Alex_Tweeddale: Do is there's been a lot of really interesting 
  work on did linked resources for trust Registries lately we've 
  been working with the guys uh epsi and we've been working at the 
  guys at fraunhofer Institute to create um.
Alex_Tweeddale: Very much a.
Alex_Tweeddale: End-to-end Journey for writing sort of trust 
  Registries and verifying trust registry is in a very modular way.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um where we use trust registry where we use the 
  linked resources in the trust registry piece is in this uh this 
  purple blob that's on the screen here so um each trust registry 
  entry or each uh so so actually I'll contextualize this a little 
  bit so checked um what we've been doing at checked is working 
  with the EPC model of trust Registries and what that means is a 
  did can a credit another dip with a specific set of permissions 
  so uh there could be a root of trust governance Authority did 
  which says Okay I want to accredit these you know.
Alex_Tweeddale: Accreditation organizations to issue uh either 
  more accreditations or to issue credentials um and those 
  accreditations themselves are stored as digital resources.
Alex_Tweeddale: Basically the parents did or the root of trust 
  did issues their accreditations as did linked resources to the 
  accreditors and then they can issue accreditations to issuers and 
  those are stored as particular resources as well.
Alex_Tweeddale: Go into more detail further in the presentation 
  on how this actually works to build a bit of a to paint a bit of 
  a clearer picture on what I mean when I say uh linked linked 
  resources to these DS but in essence this is 1 of the use cases 
  that we're looking at and it's really cool because what we can 
  actually do is have trusted accreditations um which uh secure and 
  use the same key material that are in the.
Alex_Tweeddale:  dids that.
Alex_Tweeddale: That they're being linked to to write trust 
  Registries which is excellent and the guys at the fraunhofer 
  Institute have built this trust check train trust validator 
  that's a bit of a mouthful where basically um they're building a 
  modular way to resolve to different trust registry implementation 
  so they're looking at doing uh x509 and more centralized trust 
  registry models as well as open ID Federation and also did base 
  trust registry resolution so they kind of want to build this is 
  almost like the universal resolver for trust Registries which I 
  think is really interesting piece of work.
Alex_Tweeddale: This as well but um we we made an EPC Improvement 
  proposal.
Alex_Tweeddale: So they are uh now looking to support the linked 
  resources for their schemas status lists and Trust registry is on 
  the Epi Ledger.
Alex_Tweeddale: So for example they have this concept of trust 
  chains at Epsy whereby as I kind of alluded to earlier an 
  organization can accredit another organization below it with a 
  set of permissions um and if you write those accreditations as 
  did linked resources then it becomes much easier to resolve to 
  that accreditation in a standardized and sort of um clearly 
  defined data model.
Alex_Tweeddale:  uh so.
Alex_Tweeddale: On the right.
Alex_Tweeddale: Sort of what we intend to sort of a a longer time 
  goal that we intend to reach with EPC or or perhaps what becomes 
  and European down the line whereby we can have dids and did 
  linked trust Registries or did link status lists written on EPC 
  and then other trust infrastructure such as ourselves at checked 
  and then we use the universal registar and resolver to be able to 
  like.
Alex_Tweeddale: With with complete interoperability take those 
  inputs and for verify our applications to be able to verify those 
  trusts Registries equally um which I think would be a really 
  really nice sort of uh demo to do with them at EPC.
Alex_Tweeddale: Another use that we've we've seen pop up in the 
  last couple of years is um did link resources for an on credit 
  so.
Alex_Tweeddale: Rats have been tied at the hip to hyperledger 
  Indy and that's obviously caused a lot of friction in the space 
  it's caused a lot of challenges with people building in the 
  animal creds World um and 1 of the things we were able to do with 
  lint resources was actually um enable uh the Anon Crest community 
  to decouple uh the Alan creds credential BH format from 
  hyperledger Indie now I'm not advocating that we all moved around 
  on credits in any capacity I actually love you know the all 
  converging around St John and the other EU sort of credential 
  formats but it's a really cool uh.
Alex_Tweeddale:  sort of.
Alex_Tweeddale: Were able to replicate a lot of the specific 
  Indie sort of uh schemas credential definitions revocation status 
  lists using this kind of extensible uh did linked resource 
  format.
Alex_Tweeddale: And then finally um 1 of the things that we've 
  been working on on checked is supporting status lists as did 
  linked resources so um we currently support Ledger based uh 
  status list 21 bit string status list token status lists.
Alex_Tweeddale: Essentially it's any file um can be stored as a 
  linked resource and it it appears in this common syntax which 
  I'll go into a bit more detail on um a bit further in the 
  presentation but what's really cool is resolvers can.
Alex_Tweeddale: Essentially resolved to the status lists using a 
  dig URL um.
Alex_Tweeddale: And and fetch the credential status from the from 
  the um service list themselves.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um awesome so yeah just quick summary of dids in 
  the wild oh sorry dlrs in the wild which is the acronym for 
  delink resources so um there's W3 3C draft spec and process uh 
  the universal registar and resolver is in progress.
Alex_Tweeddale: Democrats has been done which is awesome epsi is 
  in progress status lists have been done and Trust Registries have 
  been done so lots of really really good work in terms of 
  standardizing how these different types of resources are stored 
  and retrieved.
Alex_Tweeddale: I'm actually going because I because I think it's 
  quite important to explain like how these resources work.
Alex_Tweeddale:  I think.
Alex_Tweeddale: Probably uh a really good next sort of step to 
  sort of explain just checking in the background of an because 
  joined as well uh yes I can see him on the call uh hello anchor.
Alex_Tweeddale: Awesome um so just to give a bit of context of 
  linked resources and how they work it all starts with a dit so.
Alex_Tweeddale: Uh you create your did like you would usually um 
  I'm using a check did as an example but it could be any any dit 
  um and with that did you have a set of uh keys that are used to 
  control the deer to update the deer to authenticate the did Etc.
Alex_Tweeddale: So you start.
Alex_Tweeddale: With a really basic did.
Alex_Tweeddale: And these bits that are highlighted in.
Alex_Tweeddale: Orange and in green are important for the next 
  slide so I'll I'll reference I'll show you how these these pieces 
  work in the next slides.
Alex_Tweeddale: Unique identifier of the did essentially becomes 
  what we call a collection ID so I like to think of the datas the 
  parent.
Alex_Tweeddale:  and then the.
Alex_Tweeddale: Are basically children within a collection that's 
  associated with the parent did.
Alex_Tweeddale: Each of the resources has its own unique resource 
  ID and it can have its own resource name resource type um which 
  sort of is metadata that defines what the resource is.
Alex_Tweeddale: And then you can pass an actual file with the 
  transaction um.
Alex_Tweeddale: That is your actual resource so this could be a 
  schema this could be a status list Etc um and then the metadata 
  here is essentially giving context um and and identifiers to that 
  resource itself.
Alex_Tweeddale: Now importantly when you create the resource you 
  sign the transaction with the same verification method keys that 
  are in your did document so you know all of the.
Alex_Tweeddale: You know the benefits of having DS and multiple 
  controllers and multiple and you know keys for different purposes 
  in the in the D document you can use the you can use those same 
  Concepts when you're using digital resources so you could have a.
Alex_Tweeddale: Habits so all controllers of the did need to sign 
  the transaction to create digit resource so that this did linked 
  resources now essentially cryptographically.
Alex_Tweeddale: Secure because it's being created using the same 
  Keys as the did or at least you can prove that the resource has 
  you know is controlled by the digital is at least you know 
  related to the did.
Alex_Tweeddale: And then once once you've created that resource.
Alex_Tweeddale: In the did document metadata um we populate 
  essentially resource metadata.
Alex_Tweeddale: Or linked resource metadata whereby you can see 
  the resource name you can see the resource type you can see the 
  unique identifier for the resource.
Alex_Tweeddale:  and just.
Alex_Tweeddale: Just as a quick sort of uh kind of like diagram 
  of how this works in completion you have your did you have your 
  keys and then you know the the unique ID of the the did 
  identifies the collection and you can have 1 Resource within the 
  collection or you can have you know multiple resources within the 
  collection and what's nice with the design of did linked 
  resources is you can have versions of resources sequentially 
  ordered and you know fully indexable um and we we've proposed 
  that we do this using the same resource name and resource type so 
  if you create a new resource and you give it the same name and 
  type that will become essentially a new version of the same 
  resource um it will all resources have their own unique 
  identifier but they are grouped into collections of the same 
  resource name and resource type.
Alex_Tweeddale: And what's great is once you've created your 
  resources um in the same way that it did is discoverable through 
  did resolution your resources discoverable through did URL uh 
  dereferencing or essentially did resolution as well.
Alex_Tweeddale: There is path-based D referencing so you can have 
  slash resources so you have your did then slash resources and 
  then the unique sort of specific resource ID for that resource 
  and that will fetch the actual file.
Alex_Tweeddale: You can create.
Alex_Tweeddale: Query syntax so you can say I want to query uh 
  this collection and I want to ask for the resource name that is 
  University degree and the resource type which is Json schema and 
  you can add extra queries to this and we've defined all the 
  particular queries within the draft spec so you can say I want to 
  query the resource that a particular version time um so you can 
  say I want to get this particular resource of this name and this 
  type at this particular point in time um which is really really 
  cool because going back to the beginning of the presentation when 
  I was explaining that you need to be able to persist um 
  historical uh resources such as schemas which you know might have 
  a very long lifespan using uh you did URLs like this especially 
  when coupled with Ledger based uh did methods or more 
  persistently stored uh did methods you can actually.
Alex_Tweeddale:  fetch that.
Alex_Tweeddale: And persistence going forward.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um and what's neat about resources is.
Alex_Tweeddale: The syntax if you use the common syntax it 
  doesn't actually matter where the resources stored so you know 
  obviously checked is a blockchain uh it's 1 way of storing 
  resources and there are benefits of that in terms of immutability 
  and persistence but equally you could store did linked resources 
  uh on a web server attached to a did web did and it's just a 
  common way of referencing things like you know your status lists 
  and your schemas um and your trust registry is related to that 
  did equally you know you could use ipfs you could use things like 
  carry um the the actual places you store them are uh very broad 
  well you know potentially Limitless.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um and then before I wrap up as well um I think 
  it's probably just worth touching finally on some of the other 
  applications of resources that we've not seen be used yet but I 
  think could be really really cool um 1 is visual representations 
  of credentials so in the same way that uh you know you have 
  schemas for the essentially the attributes of a credential or the 
  composition of a credential you could also have a resource did 
  linked resource which um.
Alex_Tweeddale:  you know.
Alex_Tweeddale: Actual visual schema of a credential you know you 
  could store OCA bundles as the delivery sources so you know any 
  verifier application had a common way of actually finding the OCA 
  bundle and then presenting the visual credential in uh the format 
  that was intended by the issuer.
Alex_Tweeddale:  I also.
Alex_Tweeddale: Say interesting angle around Supply chains here 
  you know if you have um.
Alex_Tweeddale: If you have dids for reach organization along a 
  supply chain then you can associate files with that did for you 
  know particular parts of that supply chain as it goes through 
  whether it's for schemas whether even if it's for things like um 
  storing little bits of information about okay yes this this part 
  of the supply chain has been certified and I can store that as a 
  did linked resource so that I know that that file has been signed 
  uh by the keys of the control of that did so yeah the we're 
  really excited by the standard because we're now seeing a lot of 
  innovation in the space around it and to everyone in the 
  community who I'm speaking to now it would be great to get you 
  all to read the the draft spec and get your comments on it um.
Alex_Tweeddale: Obviously I'm going to pause here for questions 
  and I might pass over to Anchor as well um if you've got anything 
  to add to this anchor um probably a good time for you to come in 
  now as well.
Harrison_Tang: Well thank you thanks Alex for a great 
  presentation uh dimitry you're in the queue.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Um this first of all uh thank you for the 
  presentation I had a quick question what does checked Ledger use 
  on the back end is it hyperledger Basel based.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Cosmos thank you.
MG_(GoPlausible): Hello everyone it's so here I'm so glad to be 
  with you today I'm mg from go plausible very happy to meet you 
  all online and I have just 1 question I uh mentioned my comments 
  as a uh Curious here as an issue over GitHub but very rapidly I 
  just wanted you if you if possibly uh uh share some light on what 
  are the plans to you know expand a little bit more or extend the 
  uh proposal draft and also if there is uh some possible room for 
  collaborations and uh suggest some new stuff as I mentioned over 
  uh my issue on GitHub and if you guys see fit I can yeah some 
  elaborate on that a little bit more thank you.
Harrison_Tang: Sorry onkar I think we lost you for the.
<harrison_tang> link to DID Linked Resources Github: 
MG_(GoPlausible): Thank you so much thank you so much for your 
  time and response.
MG_(GoPlausible): Surely and I will make sure to implement as 
  soon as possible to implement the uh uh linked resources right 
  into the implementation of the ID number private credentials on 
  algorithm blockchain as go plausible is the entity who implements 
  these on algor and blockchain thank you so.
Harrison_Tang: No your next NICU.
Harrison_Tang: Oh sorry I I think I accidentally muted you sorry 
  fill up please.
Phil Long:  Thank you okay thank you to Philly um most of you 
  don't know me hello for those of you who don't know I'm with gs1 
  I wanted to listen to this presentation today because it picked 
  interest so thank you to Alex and Anka um uh I'm I'm new to this 
  so I'm I'm struggling to understand the difference between uh 
  deadlink resources service endpoints in a did Doc um which I 
  guess this must be a difference otherwise you wouldn't be doing 
  this and but I'm intrigued at the idea of a root of trust did 
  that then links did the flow beneath that that's very relevant to 
  trust anchors in Supply chains which is what we do with the bank 
  of people um so um we're a federation we have 118 bits of gs1 
  around the world that issue our identifiers I know you hate 
  issued identifiers but it pays my mortgage sorry um uh so I'm I'm 
  looking at a way that we Global office would give those 
  identifiers to Our member organizations and then they then 
  Cascade them.
Phil Long:   Down to the.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Yes sorry we have a little service disruption um I 
  think it's probably because the the the sharing of the document 
  is too big so.
Phil Long:  So it's it's a subsidiary of just 1 Germany which is 
  you know this is the thing we're we're 119 different legal 
  entities and we're all different and we're all called gs1 it's 
  really annoying I know sorry.
Phil Long:  Oh my God.
Alex_Tweeddale: Yeah just 1 more point on that as well 1 of the 
  things that we've been working on as well is is to say yes gs1 
  could have like a did which is their route of trust.
Alex_Tweeddale:  but they could.
Alex_Tweeddale: Also store that did or associate it with an x509 
  certificate or DNS records for gs1 for the root of trust um and 
  then once that root of trust did has been sort of established 
  that has a a higher level of assurance and then you could create 
  the Cascade of regular DS below that all sort of wrapping up back 
  into that higher level of assurance did I think that's a really 
  interesting hybrid model because you have a lot more flexibility 
  when you create dits um you can make them to make specific you 
  can make them you know you can tweak what the permissions are 
  within the accreditations they have a lot more flexibility than 
  you do with just X5 or 9 certificates so I think yeah it's uh 
  it's an interesting approach that we're we're currently building 
  with the guise of Farah Hoffer.
Phil Long:  So thank you both that's really interesting and 
  definitely something we need to look at and I'm glad I joined the 
  gold today thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  My question is to sort of follow up on the 
  trust registry angle is I'm wondering why the decision to oh to 
  overload the just the storage spec with also issue a registry 
  section right like there's a number of issuer registry 
  specifications like train like ccgs known issues and verifiers 
  like open ID uh Federation all that stuff uh why connected to a 
  fairly narrowly scoped uh did relative resources that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh it does partly um the the bit uh that I'm 
  not super clear about is I understand why versioning of any 
  resources is useful in general and I understand why versioning um 
  issuer Registries is useful.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  A bit I'm not clear on is is why have a um why 
  combine it in the did linked resources specification right if I 
  want to use did link resources to version my word document for 
  example right I wouldn't put that in the spec.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Got it got it.
Alex_Tweeddale: Before so it's it's worth noting that in the spec 
  itself um it doesn't go into detail on trust Registries at all 
  it's very generic uh the draft registry stuck with very much just 
  for this presentation and for contextualizing what you could do 
  with it.
Harrison_Tang: Yeah thanks Dmitry for the questions because I 
  have the same questions and thanks Anker for a great explanation.
Harrison_Tang: Uh Lucy please.
Lucy Yang:  Thank you Harrison I just want to quickly respond to 
  the to the versioning um.
Lucy Yang:  Part of the the conversation I I'm not technical any 
  way but then but my projects have been using training for some 
  time so 1 of the um the the functionalities we are working with 
  um was Ron Hoffer is on on having versioning um so that I I I 
  can't do it I'm just I just might want to make a comment here I'm 
  happy to go back to our technical team and learn more and see 
  also like if they can share a little bit something of how you 
  know they're you know we're approaching versioning but I just 
  want to make a note that we are using untrained and and also our 
  based on our conversation with um with fraunhofer is definitely 
  possible to use trainers to have the versioning functionality 
  which is very important so.
Lucy Yang:  Okay great I'm not saying like you know a multiple 
  approach it's not good I just want to make a comment there there 
  is there we are also working on that so good that you know there 
  are.
Alex_Tweeddale: And multiple approaches is good like there's 
  never going to be 1 approach that pulls them all and that's not 
  what we're trying to get to I think we want to have interoperable 
  architecture that can result to different ways of doing things 
  whether it's something like open ID Federation or you know did 
  linked resources or potentially the way that you're doing things 
  I think all will have merits or will be useful in their own 
  particular context so yeah I I think we're like there's probably 
  is a way they could overlap but you know if there's not then 
  there's probably still merit in both.
Harrison_Tang: Any other question.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um cool sorry um anyone have got their hand up 
  next yeah.
Harrison_Tang: I got a quick question so uh I think uh again 
  great presentations and then uh thank you for uh.
Harrison_Tang: Having a concrete examples on kind of the root of 
  trust and chain of trust uh example I'm just curious like what 
  about the schema uh use cases do you have examples on how 
  different companies uh use the schema uh like think resource uh 
  the idea link resources for schemas.
Alex_Tweeddale: Um we've put together a few like examples of 
  schemas I mean it's basically the actual file being stored as a 
  linked resource and then in the credential itself you just either 
  include a did URL or you can even include the resolver link if 
  you want to as well um.
Alex_Tweeddale: Where we haven't had a big project yet where 
  we're we're using lots of schemas um you know I still think 
  there's obviously I don't think we're going to you know stop 
  schema.org doing their stuff anytime soon but I think it's a good 
  option for those that want to have you know ensure that that that 
  a particular schema is stored persistently and then you can 
  cross-link it as well with something on schema.org so you could 
  have in our did link resource spec we also have an also known as 
  property so you could have uh a d linked resource and then have 
  an also known as linked to a schema.org schema um and cross sort 
  of link between the 2 of them and anchor anything else to add on 
  that.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you Dimitri.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Got it uh this is last of the question and 
  more it might be interesting uh for for the linked data folks uh 
  sorry the did relative um resources folks.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Uh so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The the topic of uh account relative resources 
  uh is becoming really important in.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Area of decentralized social uh decentralized 
  social media so Mastadon uh and and the rest of the fediverse for 
  those of you who are familiar with that and so 1 of the things 
  that 1 of the uh main topics of interest there is account 
  portability how do you when um when switching service providers 
  not break the links and so 1 of uh 1 of the proposals that I and 
  some other people have worked on was specifically to use did 
  relative.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Or storing posts right like uh storing method 
  on posts.
Dmitri Zagidulin: 
  https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/e3e9/fep-e3e9.md
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh except uh we we were using the did core 
  relative ref mechanism here I'll post the the speck in the chat 
  uh because that you know that that was already in the in the did 
  core spec but I think it would be interesting to take a look at 
  uh your specification to see.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh if that if that's a better fit for the 
  decentralized social media model thanks all.
Harrison_Tang: Yeah Demetria has the Social Web group so.
Harrison_Tang: Only the best person.
Harrison_Tang: All right um any last questions we have 1 minute 
  left.
Harrison_Tang: Great thank you thanks Anker thanks Alex uh for 
  jumping on and uh host a great presentation and great Q&A session 
  so thanks a lot.
Alex_Tweeddale: Yeah thanks all.
Alex_Tweeddale:  yeah thank you.
Harrison_Tang: Right this concludes this week's ccg meeting 
  thanks a lot.

Received on Wednesday, 21 August 2024 13:34:25 UTC