[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2023-05-30

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2023-05-30

  Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
  Our Robot Overlords
  Harrison Tang, Kimberly Linson, Paul Dietrich GS1, Bob Wyman, 
  Mike Xu, Phil Long, Gregory Natran, Aditya, Kerri Lemoie, Manu 
  Sporny, Greg Bernstein, Erica Connell, Joe Andrieu, Marty Reed, 
  Jeff O - HumanOS, Dmitri Zagidulin, Paul Bastian, Leo, Wendy 
  Seltzer, Keith Kowal, James Chartrand, Eric Sembrat, stephan 
  baur, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Nis Jespersen , Mike Prorock, Simone 
  Ravaoli, Stephan Baur

<kerri_lemoie> Hello all
<harrison_tang> hello, Kerri!
<harrison_tang> thanks for taking the time to join us today
<kerri_lemoie> Hi @Harris! Always happy to be here.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kimberly Linson:  Right well happy day after Memorial Day and I 
  guess the start official start to Summer and I'm excited to 
  moderate today and talk a little bit more about plugfest three 
  the first two plugfest so I was thinking about this this morning 
  we're really doing that kind of work I think is puts a lot of 
  accelerant to to understanding the technology it's one thing to 
  sort of hear it and listen to it but when you actually have to 
  get in.
Kimberly Linson:   And try to make it work.
Kimberly Linson:  And then it really is becomes real and so I'm 
  looking forward to plugfest three and another dose of that kind 
  of acceleration as a reminder we are held to the professional 
  code of ethics and conduct if you'd like to read that it's in the 
  agenda the link is in the agenda I know that that we all are very 
  passionate about our Viewpoint and that's one of the things that.
Kimberly Linson:   Makes this community so great.
Kimberly Linson:  Need to keep in mind that everyone is working 
  towards the common goal of making credentials accessible to 
  everyone the IP note also just to let you know you are welcome in 
  this call and we're really glad to have you here and you're 
  welcome to participate without being a member of the ccg but if 
  you are interested in contributing and digging into an aspect of 
  the technology or the standards.
Kimberly Linson:   Or any kind of.
Kimberly Linson:  Sharing of your work then we really invite you 
  to join by creating a w3c account and and signing the community 
  contributor license agreement both of those things the links are 
  found in the notes it's free to join there's no cost but it does 
  just sort of give you some explicit instructions about or 
  Direction about what it is that you're doing we keep call notes 
  and minutes and an audio recording of this this conversation.
Kimberly Linson:   You can see the know.
Kimberly Linson:  In the in the chat and if you would like to 
  participate in the conversation I would invite you to use Q Plus 
  to add yourself to the queue if you change your mind you can use 
  Q - and that will take you off of the queue that's really how we 
  organize the conversation here if you haven't put yourself on the 
  Queue before I'd invite you to do that today and introduce 
  yourself because that's the very next thing is introductions do I 
  have anybody who is new here for the.
Kimberly Linson:   First time today or hasn't been here in a 
Kimberly Linson:  Elves love to have you put yourself on the 
  Queue and introduce yourself.
Gregory_Natran: Aye sir I'm not exactly a new member but there's 
  seems there's been a complete mess up with the membership for my 
  company so I'm still going to participate until we figure that 
  out deal with the internal bureaucracy of somehow having our 
  membership changed old or something but I don't think it matters 
  so much for this group.
Kimberly Linson:  It definitely doesn't we're glad to have you do 
  what organization are you with.
Gregory_Natran: I was representing Becker Carol but we were 
  Acquired and then change the name to Portage cybertech and I 
  think that may have been why there's some confusion.
Kimberly Linson:  Yep that sometimes happens and I am the one who 
  gets all the sort of notifications of in and out and so I can 
  take a look at what I have but yes you're certainly welcome we're 
  glad you're here.
Kimberly Linson:  Where are you based.
Kimberly Linson:  Oh that sounds lovely.
Gregory_Natran: I just thought I'd point it out like I said I 
  think it's more for the credentials working group that cares but 
  the IP the IP agreements but I'm an Ottawa so it's it's you were 
  discussing the weather earlier so ironically it is sunny and very 
  warm in Ottowa right now I think will hit 30 degrees tomorrow.
Gregory_Natran:  Fahrenheit I don't know what that is.
Kimberly Linson:  Isn't it a double it and add 12 or something 
  like that.
Gregory_Natran: That it's up over 80 degrees.
Kimberly Linson:  And then I have.
Kimberly Linson:  Another person on the Q deep yeah.
Aditya: Yeah it's it's added yeah yes already you all can call me 
  Addie so I yeah I'm not new to this group either so I've been 
  with you know you know the breakfast one and two earlier and you 
  know so I was earlier with the different organization now we've 
  shifted to a different organizations of planning to represent the 
  new organization on the plate first three and continue my journey 
<phil_t3> 30C = 86 F ;-)
Aditya:  so you know.
Aditya: About of infinity sign so we work on identity and access 
  management and we use you know self Sovereign identity and you 
  know so an operation w3c base credentials for authentication so 
  happy to be here thank you.
Kimberly Linson:  Great we're glad to have you.
Kimberly Linson:  All right anybody else wants you introduce 
  themselves or reintroduce.
Kimberly Linson:  How about announcements and reminders.
<gregory_natran> Yep. Very wam here in Ottawa. But we had record 
  snowfall this past winter, so it is somewhat deserved.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah thanks Kimberly there was an email that went 
  out to the credentials community group and verifiable credentials 
  working group earlier today about a news tip disclosure mechanism 
  so this is a selective disclosure mechanism for data Integrity 
  one of the specifications that's being standardized at the w3c in 
  the VC w g and this is basically the exciting thing about this 
  new cryptography.
Manu Sporny:   Be sweet is one it supports the data integrity.
Manu Sporny:  Digitally signing things into it supports nist 
  based cryptography and so that's important for National 
  governments European Union cares a lot about nist security 
  standards US Government stood cares a lot about nist standard so 
  there was a gap there that we've been meaning to fill for a while 
  in this specification fills that I'll go ahead and link to the 
<manu_sporny> Selective Disclosure for Data Integrity: 
Manu Sporny:  Let's read God's this stuff's and selectively 
  closure for data integrity that's the email there and if you want 
  just a really quick slideshow run-through of what that technology 
  looks like the slide deck slide.
<manu_sporny> Slide deck is here: 
Manu Sporny:  Is he here.
Manu Sporny:  We get so happy to field any questions comments 
  concerns about it there's already implementation that cited in 
  the slide deck when tons of code examples in the readme file so 
  if you're curious if you're a developer and curious as to how it 
  actually works in practice you can go to the source code 
  repository and and check it out there that's it thanks.
Kerri Lemoie: :Clap:
Kimberly Linson:  Great thanks man who and I already have that 
  slide deck open and was looking through it this morning so we'll 
  we'll definitely come back with questions maybe we can touch on 
  it again next week during announcements and reminders.
Kimberly Linson:  Anybody else got a got something they want to 
  talk about.
Kimberly Linson:  Otherwise I will turn it over to Carrie.
Kerri Lemoie:  But I think Maya Hansen.
Kimberly Linson:  Oh man you again man who wearing a different 
Manu Sporny:  I'm sorry yes different hat the different hat is as 
  an editor editor in the verifiable credentials working group we 
  have started the process of horizontal review so that is a 
  process that you do just a couple of months before you lock 
  everything in and you enter What's called the candidate 
  recommendation phase candidate recommendation is where we 
  basically say we're done with the spec we want people to 
  implement it.
Manu Sporny:   It in.
Manu Sporny:  Your experience implementing all the specs went 
  horizontal review is a process where you go out and you talk to 
  the big horizontal review groups at w3c like the accessibility 
  Community checks to make sure that you've created a technology 
  that meets people with different needs like site-based needs 
  Mobility based needs cognitive different cognitive needs.
Manu Sporny:  Nationalization security privacy in the technical 
  architecture group for the web who makes sure that the technology 
  is you're creating fit in with kind of the architecture of the 
  web so that process has been kicked off with the data Integrity 
  specifications all of the specifications in the verifiable 
  credential working group will be undergoing that process if you 
  want to provide feedback on this specs now is a good time to read 
  the specs and provide that kind of feedback.
Manu Sporny:   Like we have three months.
Manu Sporny:  Minor Adjustments before we lock everything in so 
  just a heads up on that.
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you.
<kerri_lemoie> @manu - can you put the links in here for folks?
Kimberly Linson:  Right Carrie now I'm going to turn it over to 
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks Kimberly everybody I my name is Carrie Dell 
  Amore I am director of Technology of the digital creative 
  potential Consortium I'm also one of the co-chairs for verify the 
  credentials for Education task force also you may heard of us as 
  VC edu the other two co-chairs in this group is dmitry's I could 
  do then and also some money ravioli each of us sort of providing 
  our own expertise and experience in curiosity.
Kerri Lemoie:   To this group today I'm going to tell you a 
  little bit.
Kerri Lemoie:  And about DC eiji task force and we've been up to 
  this year and we're overdue for an update to this group and then 
  also tell you some about plugfest 3 I share in lieu normally from 
  Sharon Lee from jmf is normally here to do the plugfest 3 or the 
  plugfest the conversations and talk more about jmf she can join 
  us today so I'm going to do my best and then we will always have 
  a follow-up conversations later about the plug press ok.
Kerri Lemoie:   So I'm just going to talk a little bit with no 
  slides just about BC I do and then.
Kerri Lemoie:  I will dig into some.
Kerri Lemoie: 
Kerri Lemoie:  That I have for plugfest 3 so for those of you who 
  aren't aware of EC edu we are a task force that's part of this 
  community and what we do is we sort of work on a mix of topics 
  that are related to Education and Training digital credentials so 
  verifiable digital connection credentials we hold weekly calls on 
  Mondays at 11 a.m. eastern and these calls are typically about.
Kerri Lemoie:   DC's or VC relator adjacent.
<kerri_lemoie> JWT VC interoperability profile with Jen Schreiber 
  from Workday Credentials 
<kerri_lemoie> Intro to CHAPI (Credential Handler API) w/Manu 
  Sporny from Digital Bazaar 
Kerri Lemoie:  And I'm gonna put some links to the chat in the 
  chat for you some of the topics we've covered recently so for 
  instance this year we covered job feces which in Schreiber from 
  work day we also covered a Montessori from digital bizarre gave a 
  great description and tutorial on chappie.
<kerri_lemoie> The Next Step in Digital Credentials — Hash-based 
  Elision with Christopher Allen - 
Kerri Lemoie:  We did see recently actually we did a call with 
  Christopher Alan about about hash based when I say it wrong 
  Allegiant I think I'm saying that right and then we whole calls 
  like that to sort of help the attendees understand about 
  verifiable credentials but then also we talked about how to 
  implement them and highlight members of our community who are 
  doing some work for instance we had a call.
Kerri Lemoie:   With ASU trusted learner Network some of you may 
  have known.
<kerri_lemoie> Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network 
  (TLN) https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-24-vc-education/
<kerri_lemoie> RANDA with Marty Reed: 
Kerri Lemoie:  As a recent call and also Marty Reid from Randa 
  presented the work that they've been doing over there.
<kerri_lemoie> RANDA with Marty Reed: 
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges 3.0 Candidate Release Review 
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-ed/#:~:text=Open Badges 3.0 
  Candidate Release Review
Kerri Lemoie:  And then also we do a lot of work with the 
  standards groups in the community who are trying to align their 
  models towards a to verifiable credentials one of the bigger ones 
  recently in this past year I only have the link to this remote is 
  open badges along with open badges was also lips like I put in 
  the wrong link there try it again open registry 3.0 candidate 
Kerri Lemoie:   Which is.
<kerri_lemoie> use cases: 
Kerri Lemoie:  Sided with the comprehensive learner candidate 
  release another thing we do is we work on the use cases so we had 
  a work item that was our use cases document and so we still are 
  collecting use cases always we have a pretty substantial this 
  here that the community contributed over the course of a year so 
  really we just started thinking more about how do we address 
  these use cases and make them real one of the ways we're going 
  about that is working on a document that contains recipes.
Kerri Lemoie:   That may say describe what a diploma could look 
  like as an open badge.
Kerri Lemoie:  Insert a picture Spirit transparency description 
  language or even European learning model because what we know is 
  that more and more of these models will be coming up and they 
  also are trying to figure out how do they align with verifiable 
  credentials but then the overall community of developers and 
  policymakers and I'll want to understand which ones should they 
  use and why and all that so we're sort of advancing and leveling 
  up to Annex that next part now.
Kerri Lemoie:   Okay so I'm going to pause there for a second 
  anybody have any questions about VCI do or.
Kerri Lemoie:  Be you have anything you'd like to add to that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Sure so one of the things I really like about 
  VC edu is the two directional flow to and from the task force and 
  then the this credentials community group and the currently the 
  VC working group in that we as Gary mentioned we do a lot of sort 
  of educational calls where we present a particular aspect of 
  verifiable credentials such as you know selective disclosure or 
  credential handler API, CHAPI.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Chul Han therapy.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Like that and then going to in-depth in how 
  that effects the education community.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   But also.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  A lot of.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The movement in the other direction where it 
  just so happens that due to a lot of implementation in VC edu 
  we're encountering both edge cases and stumbling blocks that 
  we're confident the rest of the community is going to stumble 
  onto also and so we're using that to to educate the ccg and 
  verifiable credential working group giving them a heads up a lie.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Like all the you might need this.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Or when time comes to dealing with complex 
  credentials like like a class transcript here are some issues 
  that you run into so it's I suspect even if you're not in 
  education it's a really interesting group to listen in on that's 
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah thanks you just said that's an excellent 
  point a lot of the things we're trying to tackle with the 
  education and work force and training credentials are broadly 
  applicable outside of that scope let's go to you may seem narrow 
  but it's actually incredibly wide not only is a global but 
  includes formal informal non-formal like all sorts of situations 
  where people are learning throughout their lives and there's 
  large communities that started before.
Kerri Lemoie:   Before we actually started and we're trying to 
  sort of like support.
Kerri Lemoie:  All of these.
Kerri Lemoie:  Types of initiatives and help people you know have 
  more control over their data and use it more in ways that are 
  more applicable to them so it's a yeah it's a really fascinating 
  space they're just like a never-ending set of topics think about 
  I saw that a Simoni just joined us since morning I don't mind I 
  hope you don't mind I'm calling you real quick here but you've 
  been doing a really interesting like International angle to some 
  of this work also web 3 you know I was wondering if.
Kerri Lemoie:   You might speak to that for a minute before we 
  get onto the plug presto.
<simone_ravaioli> Give me 5
Kerri Lemoie:  Totally putting you on the spot here and if you're 
  not able to it's okay.
Kerri Lemoie:  So when he says give me five so I'm going to move 
  on to the plugfest and.
Kimberly Linson:  I think I think Manu put himself on the cube 
  who want to add something.
Kerri Lemoie:  Oh good okay - sure.
Manu Sporny:  So yeah yeah just just add one thing that's that I 
  found really impressive over the years you know VC edu started 
  off as a fairly small group like an offshoot of the credentials 
  community group but if you go to their weekly calls their huge 
  like packed paths I think the last call had like 54 56 people on 
  it right in so in some in some ways like well in many ways VC edu 
  is large.
Manu Sporny:   Higher than the than the weekly call is at this 
  point that's how.
Manu Sporny:  He has gotten and because of that you know there 
  are a lot of really interesting topics as Dimitri said that they 
  cover that that helped the work in the in the in the weekly call 
  as well just an observation.
Kerri Lemoie:  I appreciate that money thank you I think one of 
  the approaches we take to try to attract more folks who are calls 
  that are not everybody who attends our calls are necessarily 
  technical some folks have very limited knowledge of the 
  technology but are extremely curious and just want to learn about 
  it and want to take it back to their organizations so we have a 
  lot of folks who are learning and listening to this work 
  including folks who fund this work so.
Kerri Lemoie:   We do our best to.
Kerri Lemoie:  Everybody informed as much as we can one other 
  thing while we're waiting for Simone a I think I might have one 
  other thing is that we started this new thing this year called 
  open agendas and once a month we try to have depending on the 
  holiday schedule and all that but once a month we tried to have 
  an open Agenda where we show up and has asked folks to bring up 
  topics that they have and we've never had a shortage of topics 
  this ranges from anything of like anybody working on a paper or 
  project or they just.
Kerri Lemoie:   Just have questions about things or want to tell 
  us something they saw it's just been really interesting way.
Kerri Lemoie:  You connect with both.
Kerri Lemoie:  The community and see what what folks need.
Kimberly Linson:  Yeah let's do that.
Kerri Lemoie:  I Babble down quite a bit there who can give me 
  what do you think should we move on to like this three four now 
  and when you can chime in a little while okay I'm gonna try and 
  share my screen off.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay miss you my thoughts.
Kerri Lemoie:  Excellent where do warning that I didn't create 
  these slides and I wasn't able to edit them so I might skip over 
  a couple or go through if you fast that aren't really topics that 
  our minds specifically the ones about jmf but we are about to get 
  ready for breakfast three in fact at the end of these slides I'll 
  have links for you to click on and join the conversation to 
  participate in the plugfest this is the third one we've done it's 
  been a.
Kerri Lemoie:   Relation between jff Labs primarily Sharon Lou 
  and her team there.
Kerri Lemoie:  The bcig co-chairs and the community there.
Kerri Lemoie:  This is like igf jmf so this is what they've been 
  working on so they are really working towards like helping people 
  who are facing systemic barriers to advancement and work and 
  quality jobs so this is their their main goal and part of this 
  right now is how to use technology for this specifically giving 
  people more access and control over their data and 
  interoperability is a huge part of that.
Kerri Lemoie:   This slide is actually a real.
Kerri Lemoie:  Of a report done by credential engine about the 
  number of credentials that exist in the United States and I 
  believe this is related to digital credentials and how many are 
  issued and that's that's a pretty important part to consider so 
  there are a lot of credentials digital credentials in the space 
  not all of them are verifiable or some of them are verifiable 
  because they're you know it's hosted on web pages as a open 
  badges previous versions used to be.
Kerri Lemoie:   But as you can see there's a tremendous Market 
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm trying mostly skip over this I think many of 
  you think about this and if Sharon was here I think she would go 
  into more details but I think a lot of us really believe that 
  digital credentials can be used in unique ways in our life 
  experiences and I'm going to prove what we know so this is sort 
  of part of the way that jff has been looking at this.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so I want to talk about the plugfest this is 
  the part that I know best so plug first one the first one was 
  last year and it's been almost exactly a year we started talking 
  about this plugfest one was to display one verifiable credential 
  which was open badges version 3 and it wasn't even actually the 
  candidate release version that's out now is sort of like a pre 
  version that was still being worked on and on 20 participants.
Kerri Lemoie:   It's just all they had to do is display.
<kerri_lemoie> Plugfest 1: 
Kerri Lemoie:  So in their wallet and these were only while it 
  participants at the time let me give you a link to the page here 
  so in this site you can find resources information that were 
  provided to the participants and also at the top of the page 
  there is a link to the videos if you'd like to see the work that 
  they did so this is how we sort of on-boarded everybody and got 
  used to the ideas of the idea of doing plugfest hey let's take 
  one one type of a credential and let's make.
Kerri Lemoie:   It work in your wallet.
Kerri Lemoie:   And then we really leveled up.
Kerri Lemoie:  This one we had issuers who are issuing two 
  wallets we had 42 participants which is we doubled in size 
  because we had so many issues and so many wallets participating 
  and what was really incredible about this is that we used a three 
  different protocols to do this may be used did Cam be Capi 
  chappie and also oid see and yet there is some overlap between 
  all of this which we loved.
Kerri Lemoie:   I'm going to put a.
<kerri_lemoie> Plugfest 2: 
Kerri Lemoie:  And the chat to this is the page for plugfest to 
  where you can learn more about the resources that those 
  participants had and also the videos at the top I think at some 
  point we will also be providing a video for the actual demo day.
Kerri Lemoie:  Pause there before I get to number 3 I know there 
  are some folks here who participated in number two and I was 
  wondering if you might want to talk about your experience there.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah I happy too well I guess the first thing to 
  say about the plugfest is that they're fantastic tools to 
  motivate like your organization to get certain things implemented 
  like core features that you as an organization will need to 
  compete in the market or just demonstrate that there's 
  interoperability here to you know your executive teams the 
  plugfest sir just.
Manu Sporny:   One a great motivator in.
<kerri_lemoie> P2 requirements: 
Manu Sporny:  Thracian tool that you know the community provides 
  the the plugfest sir I mean they're really like it sounds really 
  easy like you know plugfest one was just display a badge in your 
  wallet but when you get into implementation there's an enormous 
  amount that you have to you know think about you know the 
  different formats how you going to display them how you going to 
  store them how people are going to get access to them you know 
  things like that.
Manu Sporny:   And while you know the people that are.
Manu Sporny:  Aang how the plugfest is going to work namely you 
  know the the PC to chairs Shannon Hoon J FF in you know their 
  team the instructions are really clear and straightforward how 
  you get there is like a very chaotic process because you are 
  having to you know like Kerry said there 42 people that are 
  participating here and you've got a like team up figure out all 
  the details get it implemented in a very short.
Manu Sporny:   Kind of Rapid turnaround time frame like a.
Manu Sporny:  Right and so that part of the plugfest is also 
  really fun and exciting meaning that you know you quickly find 
  other companies that are aligned with what you're doing and kind 
  of give you feedback on gut checks you've been using for awhile 
  on whether or not you know you're building your product correctly 
  and things of that nature so so it you know if you are going to 
Manu Sporny:   It's it's.
Manu Sporny:  Straightforwardly like communicated very chaotic in 
  the midst of it and I think one of the biggest benefits here is 
  that you get to bounce your ideas off of other implementers in 
  the ecosystem usually it's really hard to do that like you know 
  the credentials community group and the vce to you things it's 
  usually people presenting and having a discussion but you don't 
  really get way down into the nitty-gritty about how these things 
  actually have to fit together and.
Manu Sporny:   And work and the plugfest are very unique in.
Manu Sporny:  Ensuring that you know you get that kind of last 
  mile of alignment done so your product is actually you know 
  working in a in a broader ecosystem so so if you haven't if you 
  haven't participated in the plug fests and you don't have to be 
  any particular size to participate we have seen large companies 
  participating in single individuals participating in both 
  demonstrating interoperability.
Manu Sporny:   T you know.
Manu Sporny:  End of it.
Manu Sporny:  If you're really interested in this stuff or 
  curious about it definitely give it a shot join up if you're a 
  software you know developer it'll it'll really help you learn 
  this stuff a lot more quickly that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  His game I knew thank you Kimberly I see you're in 
  the cube if you don't mind us a couple things it's what money 
  said he's right about smaller large companies we had a single 
  developer just beat last year and he was great and I think to the 
  remarkable things that I saw happen and this to a bunch of things 
  in the last podcast was that we did have all this matchmaking 
  happen my people meeting each other that didn't really know about 
  each other and some business relationships really.
Kerri Lemoie:   Developed based on this which was excellent to 
  then also we hit I'm a pretty.
Kerri Lemoie:  We couldn't figure it out having to do with that 
  open badges 3.0 and - team and several other developers helped us 
  figure out that you had to do with a context changed appendix 
  file change that they had made and then we realize that okay they 
  need to manage that differently than they ever used to which 
  caused a development at one a tech to adjust how they handle 
  context files but there are specifications so all of that was not 
  just useful to the participants but to the broader community.
Kerri Lemoie:   Immunity and to the specification community so 
  really it's just.
Kimberly Linson:  I mean I would Echo everything that that's been 
  said you know it was the instructions were very clear and then it 
  was chaos in the middle I like that a lot better because that's 
  what it felt like but what was great was to see how it sort of 
  all resolved and and just the different approaches that people 
  took but the thing I really wanted to say that both of you have 
  touched on is this level of collaboration it was for me an 
  opportunity to get.
Kimberly Linson:   To know other.
<kerri_lemoie> VC-EDu mailing list: 
Kimberly Linson:  Edie what they're working on how they're 
  thinking about things in this very real and tangible way and and 
  to support each other and there was such a celt there was a 
  celebratory feel about the whole thing that you know even folks 
  who did other implementations were not you know doing or we're 
  doing different methods it was still so exciting to see them 
  succeed and so I'm really looking forward to extend.
Kimberly Linson:   Doing that in plugfest 3 this this idea.
Kimberly Linson:  This collaborative Community really all working 
  towards just just really making this thing work.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah absolutely Kimberly and also I put about the 
  egg open discussion and collaborative nature I put the mailing 
  list for vco2 in the chat those of you who aren't members please 
  do join because we do do a lot of communication there and I'm and 
  that's helpful for a lot of people to see the questions like no 
  question is a is a dumb question right like you're thinking of 
  somebody else is thinking it and we like to see that happening so 
  we can figure it out that that's how we came across a bunch of 
  things that we didn't realize.
Kerri Lemoie:   We're problems so it's very helpful Mighty I see 
  you were in the queue.
Marty Reed:  Just plus one on everything I think it's it's really 
  well done really well done process but one of the one of the key 
  values that I saw throughout the collaborations was the level of 
  transparency you know I think in a lot of competitive Marketplace 
  has a lot of folks kind of play you know I've got a secret and 
  special and very hard to do so I don't want you to figure out how 
  to do it and this.
Marty Reed:   Tug Fest really got people together saying.
Marty Reed:  No no you have this kind of very special piece of 
  this puzzle but being able to collaborate with you then we can we 
  can learn tremendous amount more about what other markets can 
  benefit from from these types of technical collaboration so I 
  think just the openness of the of the folks that participated and 
  the willingness to kind of you know allow you to log into the 
  application and try it yourself and kind of what.
<kimberly_wilson_linson> -q
Marty Reed:  In environments where it's just amazing and I think 
  it's a huge huge value add to the overall Market Place.
Manu Sporny: +1 On all that!
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks Marty thank you Kimberly and you are in 
  terms of Celebration what we did last year we did our demo day 
  the day before I W which was a really great way to get together 
  and then sort of expand upon the work of the next few days in the 
  open conference setting.
<phil_t3> That combo with IIW is a great lead-in!
Kerri Lemoie:  Well I guess I'll move on to plugfest three now so 
  let's talk about what that means and you in the context of 
  embracing everything as it is now know that like you know things 
  will be exciting and I'll be challenging and they'll be fun 
  because we've never done this before so let's talk about plugfest 
  3 to plug this three starting registration starting now I'll 
  provide the links to sign up for this we already have over 20.
Kerri Lemoie:   Participants have registered or showed interest.
Kerri Lemoie:  And what we're going to do is run it through the 
  summer into IW again I will do a demo day the day before I W 
  which this year is in October so demo day would be October 9th.
Kerri Lemoie:   And the purpose of.
Kerri Lemoie:  Is to work on the other side of it so work on the 
  presentation request so right now we are talking about it being 
  with wallet who will would receive a request for the credentials 
  the while would allow the user to respond by the selecting the 
  credentials that they want to share and response and then they 
  present to the verifier of the Avera final presentation to verify 
  the credentials that come through.
Kerri Lemoie:   Right now we're talking.
Kerri Lemoie:  If I am not necessarily validation but we're going 
  to dig into that more as we have follow-up calls with the 
  participants to decide really what the levels will be why did I 
  just pause there for a second now that we see like what the 
  technical mission is for breakfast three and see if anybody has 
  any any questions or or points to make their before I get started 
  we're going any further.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's pretty straightforward so I'll call you once 
  I get sorry it's pretty straightforward we are still trying to 
  figure out you know what the very who the verifier is but we are 
  working on that right now Phil.
Phil Long:  Yeah I just wondered how many different credential 
  types you've gotten together yet.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yes excellent question.
Kerri Lemoie:  Let me see if that is on the next slide.
Kerri Lemoie:  I decide isn't exactly accurate but I'm going to 
  go to the middle part where we are listing 3-credit chills right 
  now it will right now specifically they'll be a jmf plugfest open 
  badge and I believe they'll be some kind of identity document but 
  then we're also looking for the community to submit their 
  credentials and to see if we could turn those into verifiable 
  credentials and use those as part of the plugfest so some of that 
  is still being being worked out.
Kerri Lemoie:   Out I'm going to skip over the rest of this for.
<phil_t3> (that was a nudge for others to submit credentials for 
  consideration ;-)
Kerri Lemoie:  To these details when we have our first plugfest 
  call and I'm sure we'll report back to all of you once we get to 
  the final determinations of what the plugfest will be.
Kerri Lemoie:  And she feels question and I will share the slides 
  to you by the way at the end of the call we'd love to know about 
  your credentials ideas you have for credentials ways you like to 
  incorporate maybe even other standards so this scan this QR code 
  will take you to the form but I will grab it and put it into the 
  chat for you to at the end of the call.
Kerri Lemoie:   We're asking that.
<stephan_baur> follow up on Phil's question: it would be great if 
  all VCs schemas used are on a public repo.
<phil_t3> "Another standard" within the VC overall framework
Kerri Lemoie:  They submit their credentials by June 9th that 
  will give us some time to review them and make some decisions 
  about that it could be that we have some stretch goals we've done 
  that before where we've said hey do this too if you want to if 
  you were already planning on doing it such as you know displaying 
  a different type of standard and so forth so they could be a lot 
  of interesting things happening with the multiple credentials 
  this time around that didn't happen in the previous ones which 
  are all about open badges 3.0.
Kerri Lemoie:   And then lastly this link is the link.
Kerri Lemoie:  Show your interest in participating and the date 
  for this is June 5th and you'll be notified by June 7th and then 
  once again our demo day is I'm is on October 9th why did I close 
  this and stop sharing and I'll put some of these links in the 
  chat for you.
Kerri Lemoie:  And also Dimitri you've been due to instability 
  even working on this with this to there's some things I haven't 
  covered that you think book should know about.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I'll see so I can say a few words.
<kerri_lemoie> Link to slides: 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So 4 plus 12 everything Kerry mentioned and 
  Manu this has been a really interesting set of interoperability 
  plug fests definitely each time it's held its like this was badly 
  needed this was a lot of both micro profiles to work out but just 
  a lot of rough edges in the specs that that helped implementers 
  to figure it out so for this one we're.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   We're definitely in focus.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The verification side the verification side of 
  the two to three sided market place that we've got with 
  verifiable credentials and though there's still discussion on the 
  exact exact details we were excited to specifically focus on 
<kerri_lemoie> Tell us about your credential link: 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Credentials / presentation on the relying 
  party requests credentials and the wallet presents the UI to for 
  the user to select them sign them and send them back we feel that 
  is an absolutely crucial.
<kerri_lemoie> Participation sign up form: 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Part of the verifiable credential ecosystem 
  and experience and we know that a lot of you on this call or 
  implementers may have already implemented some or all of it and 
  so but there's definitely a lot of groups that that still have a 
  lot of work to do.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  In implementing it so it's going to be really 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So that's it for me.
Kerri Lemoie:  Nice to meet you.
Kimberly Linson:  Oh I love it thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Paul let's see you in the queue before Kimberly 
  hope you don't mind I'm driving here called fog ahead.
Paul_Bastian: Thanks so my question was looking at plugfest 
  number two it was about issuance and was asking for both issuers 
  and wallets so I was expecting for this plugfest to also be about 
  very far implementations but looking at the at the Forum it seems 
  it was only interested in wallet implementers and house.
Paul_Bastian:  how's other verifier.
Paul_Bastian: Implementations not being tested all houses and 
  vision to be happening.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah that is an excellent question and first let 
  me let me say something that I forgot to say earlier is that 
  participants in plugfest three should also be able to do what was 
  done but best one and plugfest to buy those credentials should be 
  credentials in their wallet that were issued to them so that that 
  is part of the criteria for breakfast three to verify our so we 
  would love verify.
Kerri Lemoie:   Hours to participate with.
Kerri Lemoie:  To find verifiers dissipate still open to hearing 
  from verifiers if you have software that you are working on or 
  would like to work on we would love to hear from you platforms 
  such as a chappie playground folk digital bizarre have offered to 
  do some of this work to stand up as verifier but also we would 
  love to find others that could plug in and do this to so if 
  you're interested in doing that we're open to it it's just that 
  we haven't really.
Kerri Lemoie:   Come across anybody who stepped up to say that 
  they would like.
Kerri Lemoie:  Software I have to assume there's there's some 
  folks out there who would like to do this and I would love to 
  hear from them we just haven't heard from them yet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah and if I could add a couple couple words 
  to that so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The wavy previous plugfest worked out is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wow so currently in a verifiable credential 
  ecosystem we have brought three or more than three broad camps of 
  API in a way data model implementations all using the same 
  verifiable credential overall data model but focusing on 
  different apis to pass those credentials around that being the VC 
  API specification the opening.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   G family.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Of VC related specs and of course did com2 
  family of specs and so what happened in the previous.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Plug vest is that the three camps roughly 
  self-organized meaning TV Capi implementers we're testing against 
  each other using using some tools in common the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Open ad Family implementers we're using the 
  Atlantic ngi profile of the opening these specifications and and 
  did come likewise we're implementing and testing against each 
  other so we we expect the same thing to happen in this third 
  plugfest and as Carrie mentioned while we're looking for more 
  verifiers to join.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  For each camp where we're looking for 
  volunteers and leaders to step forward and collaborate on a on a 
  common sandbox or playground that verifiers and wallets can 
  contest against so digital Bazaar is someone who is going to 
  speak a bit more about about the VC API and the credential 
  Handler Epi aspect that digital is ours working on.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   But we're definitely looking for.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The open ID implementers to step in and 
  provide a similar equivalent sort of sandbox and likewise we're 
  looking for did Cam to implementers to do a interoperability 
  sandbox to help test the wallet and then verifier implementers.
Manu Sporny:  Thanks to me tree yes to everything Dimitri and 
  Kerry said to kind of answer your question I guess more directly 
  Paul the the chappie playground which is going to be renamed to 
  the verifiable credential playgrounds and I'll explain why here 
  in a bit but is going to have support for multiple verifier back 
  ends and multiple issuer back and so that is a feature that we've 
  already built out in.
Manu Sporny:   In the in the.
Manu Sporny:  Playgrounds and so if someone was wanting to bring 
  of different verifier back and just like in plugfest to they were 
  able to bring a different issue or back ends in they can do that 
  but as you noted that's not necessarily you know one of the 
  focuses you know at this moment for plugfest three so technically 
  it is possible to do that and we'd be happy to work with whoever.
Manu Sporny:   Or wants to bring a.
Manu Sporny:  And in but as Kerry was saying you know the the 
  focus is you know largely on wallets and that sort of thing the 
  other kind of line I guess we're going to have to draw during 
  this plugfest is when we say verifier they're kind of two parts 
  to kind of classes a verifier we're talking about one verifier 
  we're talking about is like the business that is going to verify 
  something like if you have a Workforce skills.
Manu Sporny:   Credential then the business that's.
Manu Sporny:  Going to verify that is some kind of job hiring or 
  resume platform right so they are they are one of the verifiers 
  and they care about the business rules of processing that 
  verifiable credential you're delivering so there's like the 
  business rule kind of verifier portion of it and then there's the 
  technical back end that they end up using so they may use their 
  own technical back-end or they may use you know like for example 
  the verifiable credential API has a verifier.
Manu Sporny:   An endpoint that you can use in you send a 
  verifiable credential to it.
Manu Sporny:  You whether or not the digital signature is good in 
  that kind of stuff right so it's that latter one the technical 
  verifier part of it the API part of it that ground supports today 
  and we can just add you know as many as people would like into 
  the future and I think you know deferring completely to jmf to 
  decide where that kind of you know fits in and in the grand 
  scheme of things I don't.
Manu Sporny:   No Carrie if I could I could.
Manu Sporny:  Not do a demo of the chappie playground but I could 
  maybe show some of the screens that we're talking about I don't 
  know if that would help people.
Manu Sporny:  That's fine that's fine I'll.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank God we don't quite have enough time for that 
  I'm sorry I was just thinking.
Manu Sporny:  I'll defer to Phil who's on the kid then.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay yeah and I think once we I will get there I 
  think soon so thank you for filling and filling in their fill.
Phil Long:  Yeah I just wanted to emphasize an important point 
  that man who just made which is the business logic back-end very 
  process and verification is is really critical and and I'm would 
  like and this was wearing my T3 hat to encourage those individual 
  organizations that want to receive these credentials or 
  interested in pursuing that too.
Phil Long:  If they have an interest in the development side of 
  that to implement the business rules that they would be 
  interested in seeing for their particular vertical to step up and 
  have conversations with the plugfest folks to try to work that 
  into the process.
Manu Sporny:  Thanks Phil yeah plus 1 to that the other thing I 
  failed to mention was we are putting open ID support into the VC 
  playground as well and so any wallet you know vendor implementer 
  will be able to use both the verifiable credential API and chappy 
  and oid for through the VC playground so we'll be providing that 
  but again like.
Manu Sporny:   Details to be.
Manu Sporny:  Herman done what profile over ID for we might end 
  up using for jmf plugfest three that's decision is entirely in 
  the hands of you know the jff plugfest 3 showrunners I guess 
  that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  I like that let's call it the show I would suggest 
  folks that you sign up to join us just even if you're not exactly 
  sure if you're going to participate because that is okay and also 
  part of this is the adventure figuring it out together and that's 
  how we've done it before so I suspect they'll be quite a bit of 
  that with this one too so your voice is matter and you know how 
  we end up going about all of this.
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see anyone else in the queue I know we're 
  we're almost running out on time I wanted to get back to simonia 
  kids he wanted to jump in here and say anything about BC I do and 
  plugfest and all of that is one of our co-chairs make sure he has 
  an opportunity to.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you so much we really appreciate working 
  with you too and thanks for that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so I guess the next steps here are stay tuned 
  during the mailing list we will post announcements to this this 
  this ECG mailing list but I'll start with the bcig one stick it 
  out and pay attention to what's going on with dates and notices 
  and get us your credentials and help us like figure out the best 
  way to do this that you know benefits your work and your 
  communities I really appreciate it thank you so much Kimberly 
  thanks for having us today.
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you everybody and I know I speak 
  for many that were very excited to get started with plugfest jury 
  and looking forward to seeing you all in October all right 
  everyone thank you so much for another great meeting and we'll 
  see you next week.
Kimberly Linson:   Thanks everyone.

Received on Wednesday, 31 May 2023 16:35:39 UTC