[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2023-05-09

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2023-05-09

  Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
  Our Robot Overlords
  Jennie Meier, Lucy Yang, Harrison Tang, Paul Murdock, Keith 
  Kowal, Greg Bernstein, Jeff O - HumanOS, James Chartrand, Mike 
  Prorock, Phil L (P1), Gregory Natran, Mike Xu, Stuart Freeman, 
  George L (GOV.UK), Wendy Seltzer, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau 
  (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Bob Wyman, Kimberly Linson, Sharon 
  Leu, Kerri Lemoie, jtwalker2000, Paul Dietrich GS1, Dmitri 
  Zagidulin, Leo, Erica Connell, Andres Uribe, BrentZ, Sandy 
  Aggarwal, David I. Lehn, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Nate Otto

<harrison_tang> We'll start in 1 min
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Recording is on.
Harrison_Tang: All right so go good morning or good afternoon for 
  people in different parts of the world so welcome to this week's 
  w3c ccg meeting today we are very happy to have Lucy to present 
  on the topic of digital trust infrastructure for Discovery and 
  validation where Reggie trust before we get there just want to do 
  a couple quick.
Harrison_Tang:  code of ethics and professional conduct reminder.
Harrison_Tang: More let's just make sure that you know we are 
  respectful to each other and you know make sure that we 
  acknowledge different perspectives a quick-acting know anyone can 
  participate in these calls Harbor all substantive contributions 
  to any CG work items must be member of the ccg with full IP our 
  agreement signed make sure you have the w3c account and you have 
  any questions or troubles just let us know.
Harrison_Tang:  we do have a standing.
Harrison_Tang: To update the ccg wtcg website so that's still on 
  the to-do list hopefully we can kind of update that in the next 
  month or two all right I could quick call notes these meetings 
  are being recorded and they will be meeting minutes published 
  they are all automatically transcribed and we will publish the 
  meeting minutes in the next few days.
Harrison_Tang:  we used to teach at.
Harrison_Tang: Beakers doing a call so you can type in Q Plus to 
  add yourself to the Q q- to remove and then Q question mark to to 
  see who's in the queue.
Harrison_Tang:  all right.
Harrison_Tang: Quick introductions and reintroductions if you're 
  new to the w3c Huger Community or if you haven't been active and 
  you're coming back can you just mute and introduce or reintroduce 
Jtwalker2000: Oh sure my name is John Walker and I have 
  participated in ccg before haven't been active in a while but I'm 
  here to work with the Lucy Yang and talk we have a presentation 
  later in the meeting.
Harrison_Tang: Welcome back John any other introductions were 
Harrison_Tang: I next any announcements were reminders.
Harrison_Tang: I saw last time we talked about if there's any 
  topics in regards to the intersection of AI and identity that 
  people are interested in actually last time people mentioned that 
  they will be interested to hear toxin presentation regards to the 
  intersection of AI and come Ai and identity so if you know any 
  speakers or anyone that could actually present on these topics.
Harrison_Tang:  it's just that any of the cultures now and then 
Harrison_Tang: Invite them and add them to the content content 
  calendar and if there's any presentations in the last iiw a few 
  weeks back that you think would be interesting to our audience 
  please let us know too.
Harrison_Tang: Any other announcements and reminders.
Harrison_Tang: All right any updates on the work items.
Harrison_Tang: So I see there is an email thread around the 
  rendering message so we will send the email to Manu and Dimitri 
  to see if they could actually present on the rendering method the 
  problem statement know the proposed Solutions and things like 
  that later this week.
Harrison_Tang: All right anything else.
Harrison_Tang: So let's get to the main agenda so this week we 
  have Lucy and John to hear to come here and present on digital 
  trust infrastructure for Discovery and validations or Reggie 
  trust so Reggie trust is a un development programme initiative 
  that use the domain name system to facilitate its Discovery and 
  validation of trusted Digital Services so that then go into that 
  more so.
Harrison_Tang:  welcome thank you.
Lucy Yang:  Thanks Harrison for having me so hopefully everyone 
  can see see me on the screen so you know who is talking behind 
  that camera yeah thanks for having me and this presentation I did 
  once at IW a few weeks ago I'm so I'm going to give that 
  presentation mostly kind of the same presentation again here and 
  but before I get there and share my screen I just wanted to kind 
  of introduce like the contacts a little bit more.
Lucy Yang:   Some of you may know me.
Lucy Yang:  The Colbert credentials initiative that's how kind of 
  initially you know God's deeper into the decentralized identity 
  community and so this project so John and I we used and also 
  actually clear was also part of it when we were all at the Linux 
  Foundation supporting covid a credential project and this project 
  was in cubed initially started and in Atlantis foundation and was 
  incubated there and in 20 that was 20 21 and then 2022.
Lucy Yang:   As we're building the technology infrastructure we 
  realize there are a lot of governance and.
Lucy Yang:  Needs to happen for for us to keep using technology 
  so we start looking for hosts you know host work Nations who can 
  have actually helped us on governance side and luckily we got the 
  kind of support from United Nations development program that how 
  we moved from Linux Foundation to to you and DP in summer 2022 
  and the project has been since then being developed there and 
  undp so and a lot of like the the use cases and we're kind of.
Lucy Yang:   The use case that we have been focused on is more on 
  like the covid credentials and.
Lucy Yang:  But the the infrastructure itself it's certainly have 
  broader broader use and particularly how many I think I've been 
  on a few of the calls where we talked about how you know they're 
  different trust ecosystem and different trustless and how these 
  things kind of interoperate for especially from from a kind of 
  kind of a governance where trust point of view so that's kind of 
  like the key issue and we're trying to address I'll get more into 
  there and so so currently like John and I are like the two of us 
  we are Consultants at undp.
Lucy Yang:   So that's kind of one hat and wearing and also some 
  of you also may know me like you know.
Lucy Yang:  Business Partnership was Kalia is our consulting firm 
  which is because separate from the front this initiative so just 
  with this contact so I'm a business person so like my main role 
  in the project is just really just making sure we're developing 
  the infrastructure in a way that I can actually solve real-world 
  problems especially like some of the problems we already know 
  today as well as bringing the right Partners into the 
  conversation and and John singing glad to have John here so he he 
  is our technical lead so are my presentation was.
Lucy Yang:   So focusing on kind of a high-level and the Business 
  and Technology side and then if you know many of you.
Lucy Yang:  Too technical here so if any for the second question 
  is in John 6 year to answer and support these questions so 
  without further Ado let me share my screen.
Lucy Yang:  Can everyone see see my screen.
Lucy Yang:  Okay great so I'm just it's a it's a Google Docs I'm 
  gonna keep scrolling scrolling down so yes as Harrison mentioned 
  the project now is called and digital trust infrastructure for 
  Discovery and validation so we're trying we're trying to develop 
  a global infrastructure and to discover any kind of crossed 
  services but you know whichever kind of ecosystem you're part of 
  by using universally accessible internet infrastructure and 
  that's what very important especially.
Lucy Yang:   At the United Nation because we and.
Lucy Yang:  Our experience was cold but because a lot of 
  countries are not you know in the position of our don't have 
  well-developed technology infrastructure so so when we're 
  developing this we kept that in mind so how we can leverage what 
  we already have and making it easy for anyone to kind of to be 
  able to join a global level ecosystem work Global level to be 
  able to leverage a global trust infrastructure.
Lucy Yang:  So as mentioned earlier on this project was initially 
  and started in Linux foundation called Global covid-19 
  certificate Network the goal is pretty much then was to address 
  interoperability challenges between the existing covid-19 
  certificate ecosystem you probably your probably use one of them 
  if you're in the EU there's the EU you know ecosystem there's and 
  in North America there's vaccine credential initiative which is a 
  kind of a public which is kind of like Consortium but involved.
Lucy Yang:   And public sector and both public sector and private 
  sector and.
Lucy Yang:  Ecosystem networks kind of in different parts of the 
  world so are our kind of main stakeholders and partners and we're 
  at Linux foundation and even now today are those who have had 
  those infrastructure in place and currently there are certainly 
  going Beyond just like focusing on covid but more like in 
  immunization certificates and house house credentials when it 
  comes to cross borders and arrows and so when we transition to 
  undp like we are under we're now under like the still.
Lucy Yang:   Like the house kind of group at undp and.
Lucy Yang:  Kind of man this just really support to support who 
  who just started was and pilot was G20 countries to try to 
  establish a global trust Network for covid certificate 
  certificate is now also expanding beyond beyond that beyond that 
  kind of one use case and a same time like we're aware that there 
  are other kind of use cases for example I've heard about you know 
  educational credentials I've heard of.
Lucy Yang:   And to a.
Lucy Yang:  Different like Silo ecosystem from how having their 
  own trusted kind of have their own kind of trustless where their 
  government is how these you know when the credentials are 
  crossing ecosystem even not even necessary Crossing Borders just 
  crossing ecosystem how how to deal with it how to kind of like 
  being able to build trust even first to find out who is out there 
  and also build trust before any verification can happen so that's 
  kind of the issue that exists and across use cases.
Lucy Yang:   So so what we're trying to do is just really to 
Lucy Yang:  To enable kind of scalable kind of work what we have 
  in mind how we can have a network of networks right kind of 
  network that kind of facilitate the different ecotrust ecosystem 
  in terms of like discovering them validating them and the using 
  exhibit existing infrastructure the particular one we're using 
  now is and it's a domain name system and the security extension 
  oh just before I introduce my I just want to make clear so 
  today's presentation.
Lucy Yang:   And you know it's.
Lucy Yang:  A presentation we developed like part as part of the 
  project but anything we're not representing like United Nations 
  development program today.
Lucy Yang:  So just kind of like dive a little bit more into like 
  the particular I'm problem space where n think if you've been 
  like if you've been working in the credential space for some time 
  you probably kind of have understanding of different different 
  type of enter our interoperability we're talking about and at 
  least my experience and in covet is it's so.
Lucy Yang:   Ultimate goal we want to reach is.
Lucy Yang:  I shall coming from what ecosystem to another 
  ecosystem like the verifier will be able to recognize and 
  exchange data and it was like the like the semantic 
  interoperability being able to recognize and change the data in a 
  meaningful Way by having the knowledge of data processing and 
  data usage context and also also like preserving the also 
  preserving while preserving privacy right that that but at the 
  end of day why ecosystem should be able.
Lucy Yang:   To understand like that you know what is what 
  they're actually.
Lucy Yang:  Our find what is the context of that so that's kind 
  of like the goal like we're trying to achieve when it comes to 
  credential verification and and to achieve that there's so many 
  layers that needs to be addressed for that semantic 
  interoperability to be in place and my experience was cold but 
  it's mostly more because is it's very urgent issue so the 
  countries were existing networks were mostly focusing on kind of 
  technical side like how being able to technically access you know 
  what the keys you know and knowing like what.
Lucy Yang:   Data model of.
Lucy Yang:  What data model was schemas you know the signature 
  the keys and figuring out the technical side of things and just 
  really you know and getting getting public he's from from 
  different places and then have a list of they can use to access 
  and verify so that's kind of like a quick quick really quick way 
  of solving the problem at the time and but but but many who have 
  been working you should realize if you know it's there are things 
  that are not in there are.
Lucy Yang:   More than just like technical interoperability 
  especially when it comes to.
Lucy Yang:  Different countries and different jurisdictions have 
  different rules regarding issuing credentials and verifying 
  credentials why when some when it's it's one thing just to get 
  public a public key but the energy from from a country but it is 
  another thing that's really under understand what when they're 
  using that public key to verify your credential what what that 
  actually is right but that kind of like you know the trust 
  building part of the it didn't happen a lot because just it was 
  there a lot of things that governments were whatever issue.
Lucy Yang:   And verifying had to have to deal with and and so so 
  there's and also.
Lucy Yang:  Probably many of you.
Lucy Yang:  Notice like during covid there's just so many people 
  who are out there issuing and you don't know who exactly who's 
  out there it's not like that he is the as you know you know there 
  are certain authorities but in a country that issue passports 
  like you know who to go and and you know who you know like there 
  is a definite number of number of entities authorities who are 
  issuing certain credentials but that's not the case like in cold 
  wet and also that's probably not the case in you know.
Lucy Yang:   In educational education credential space either 
Lucy Yang:  Many different parties were issuing so just even 
  figuring out who are issuing credentials are hard so the problem 
  we're trying to solve is like when when when someone needs to 
  verify more about when a verification needs to kind of know who 
  they can trust in the first place the first need to know who is 
  out there and second just being able to access and evaluate 
  trusted information about about a sure we're about a kind of 
  issuing the ecosystem and and and to make sure they can.
Lucy Yang:   Actually trust that ecosystem or trusted issuer 
  before any verification can happen so that's the.
Lucy Yang:  Ability and Trust interoperability kind of that two 
  areas are like we think is emerging problem space that was not 
  that we haven't been dealt and haven't been discussed much where 
  I also haven't been dealt with much so this is like the area 
  where particularly focusing on not that technical 
  interoperability is not important it is important but we feel 
  like this is like an area like a lot of people have already been 
  working on this.
Lucy Yang:   I'm I'm not following.
Lucy Yang:  Not following the chance of anything in the chat I 
  can't go I'm not able to dress now okay nothing in the trap now.
Lucy Yang:  So just very very quickly about how how we we how we 
  came up was with a kind of like the model the network of network 
  model we're using now we evaluated at the two kind of may attempt 
  where two models that were in the market were in the market where 
  you know existing models of trust building and so for the first 
  one is so all these examples are so kind of from our our covid 
  experience and so.
Lucy Yang:   The first one is so we seeing.
Lucy Yang:  Countries and different ecosystem they have to work 
  kind of but latterly to exchange keys and and not not even and 
  also to exchange keys I also have like Mutual policy agreements 
  if you know it's if that's what's needed for particularly for 
  jurisdictions and countries so there were a lot of duplicated 
  efforts and and also very poor user experience when it comes to 
  because everything is kind of manual is kind of a Greek mutually 
  and also manually manually downloading and getting keys and 
Lucy Yang:   Other related information and and and when when for 
Lucy Yang:  If you're doing man you downloading with someone is 
  updating the keys we're updating any information that they won't 
  happen you know like the very like the party who man who have 
  been Amidala those information need actually to go back and get 
  updated information again so so just in general this does is this 
  is not a scalable approach another approach that we look at and 
  also like dived into is it's just bring everything to one giant 
Lucy Yang:   ERM this is really hard because I think because of 
Lucy Yang:  One thing we mentioned earlier is there are there no 
  there's a growing number of like ecosystems and assures are 
  issuing credentials and just really really just there's there's 
  no end to you know what how no Aunt to like bringing no idea how 
  much how many parties you have to bring a non to all centralized 
  like Federation services and especially when I come when I come 
  to like Nations days that have their own.
Lucy Yang:   Roan that want their own autonomy and they want 
  their own sovereignty they don't.
Lucy Yang:  To kind of.
Lucy Yang:  One side of like standards and policies and also 
  don't want to have everything onto like a centralized services 
  and it's just going to get really really complicated both from a 
  technical and from a policy point of view and also here we're not 
  only talking about just giving having public keys in into one 
  centralized service but also like the metadata the revocation 
  data and I'll business rules data and potentially other things 
Lucy Yang:   That is required for kind of verifications so this.
Lucy Yang:  Like even think even trying to find an operational 
  entity that you know Define all these and provide all these 
  Services it's really really hard so that's this is also like this 
  so we don't think that this model could work so the third the 
  third one we're showing here is pretty much how we we're having 
  or still likes a federation model but we is a decentralized 
  federation model that allows ecosystem to operate under different 
  Technical and policy framework but but at the same.
Lucy Yang:   I'm time still being able to participate in a global 
  ecosystem so they.
Lucy Yang:  Happens is instead of really happy you know giving 
  their data to a centralized ecosystem it giving their data to the 
  centralized Services each existing Network where ecosystem they 
  need to build a profile that that includes exam based basic and 
  metadata information about them suffers a like you who is 
  operator of their Network and and what what the it credentials 
  are issuing there could be there could there set of metadata that 
  can be.
Lucy Yang:   Find by the.
Lucy Yang:  But just idea is that each ecosystem can come and 
  build their own profile that includes some information and also 
  pointers to there to other existing systems that so they don't 
  have to kind of submit all the data into a centralized platform 
  but at the same time because our platform is using using DNS and 
  DNS security and DNS SEC so when the profile is established being 
  signed we're making sure that whoever are using the platform that 
  discover for example Discovery you.
Lucy Yang:   You they will be pointed to infirmity the there will 
  be looking at.
Lucy Yang:  Nation will be pointed to and point that actually are 
  provided and guaranteed you know like by provided by the EU and 
  guarantee that they're actually going to the place that they 
  think they're going to so that's kind of like the and also like 
  the the decentralized Federated platform won't be dictating where 
  we won't be controlling how each each profile or how each 
  ecosystem that participated on the platform what you know what 
Lucy Yang:   Technical policies they should have what what what 
Lucy Yang:  Regulations doesn't work out - they should have so 
  every it's more like a way of having be enabling as many as party 
  to participate and item matter level as possible but it's at the 
  same time at the same time not not asking them to kind of to lose 
  their autonomy were to change their existing governance because 
  that's just super super hard especially when it comes to a nation 
  states and then like the verification services or whoever.
Lucy Yang:   We are providing.
Lucy Yang:  Whether your country who are you are you are just a 
  part you know and that work work you can you can you can use use 
  access that decentralized Federated platform and discover all 
  like the profiles are listed there and then look into them and 
  decide who you're going to trust and then at the end of day you 
  can choose you can pick all these are the you know the few people 
  that ecosystems like I will trust in you I will trust her 
  credentials and you can you can actually download whatever.
Lucy Yang:   You're needed selectively download the information.
Lucy Yang:  That is needed to your own back-end server and then 
  that's the best and then you are verified applications whatever 
  verification verify apps that you're providing can actually 
  access like your own back answer your own back-end server and 
  getting the keys in whatever needed were being pointed to the 
  directly to the to the ecosystem instead of like everything is 
  going to the centralized platform so I'm hoping that I'm 
  providing enough high level so you can dig more into the 
  technical side if you want to after the presentation.
Lucy Yang:   So in terms of like how so.
Lucy Yang:  We are are the the use case where we're addressing 
  was mostly in at the global level which would but doesn't 
  necessarily have to be at the global level for example if for 
  example I'm based in Canada right if like the peach provinces are 
  in charge of like its own like healthcare system so if if like 
  add the country level 100 level there's a need there need some 
  kind of coordination among these provinces in regarding house 
  credentials or whatever other credentials that.
Lucy Yang:   Could be like our model can be applied so 
  essentially is a network of networks model like.
Lucy Yang:  Whatever level that makes sense to implement her so 
  that can work.
Lucy Yang:  Here were showing like kind of a high level kind of 
  infrastructure picture so there's the one time when you're 
  looking at a network not registry so we're not only at the mental 
  level so we are can also an enable whichever participant who 
  wants to use our infrastructure is pretty much a layered 
  infrastructure that can be applied at different levels but in but 
  at the end of day is and The Meta level is what at least it's 
  something that is the decentralized.
Lucy Yang:   Federation where the.
Lucy Yang:  So we're looking at and and different kind of like 
  scenarios where for example I and the enables intergovernmental 
  organizations to implement and operate this and that that can 
  facilitate the interoperability amount of different different 
  disco ecosystem and services across borders and also we're 
  looking at governments and and work Nations a large to 
  participate in ecosystem if you don't run anything if you want 
  I'm just I run existence ecosystem I want to.
Lucy Yang:   Look at which existing kind of matter now.
Lucy Yang:  I can participate as you can look at where you can 
  build your profiles right so that could be you know a different 
  levels and and kind of the third thing we're looking at is like 
  consumers like both as an individual's work Nations will be able 
  to easily discover what is out there but you can probably owe you 
  can do we're imagining different kind of like that work I'm not 
  work so I could be one like for house credentials and Global 
  level they're probably even went there probably wasn't that are 
  like at the country level they can also participate in a global 
  level so it's all kind of late.
Lucy Yang:   Our Approach at the same time there could be you 
  know education credentials like Network which is a separate which 
  is a separate thing from from House.
Lucy Yang:  That we're going to see.
Lucy Yang:  A lot of like this not works and also network of 
  networks that kind of interacting but essentially like the model 
  is whoever are running their own ecosystem shouldn't be shouldn't 
  should not need to actually change their policies and and and you 
  know technical infrastructure to be able to interoperate at as a 
  kind of broader level so essentially I'm this is this is already 
  touching upon kind of a governance an operation so we which we 
  are were not like Define we're not.
Lucy Yang:   Intending to defining for anyone who wanted to run a 
  network of not work but.
Lucy Yang:  Kind of three steps on each side so on the 
  participating side we're looking at there's application process 
  to be become a participant at the at the network of a network of 
  networks and then like the participant these to get battered and 
  then like the the profile getting published and then what that 
  means they will that that participant will be able to be 
  discovered and then on the you and the using on the user side 
  we're very far side yes to being discovering who.
Lucy Yang:   Who is Alan that work is the first step.
Lucy Yang:  Evaluating the information the profile of a 
  participant and the verification service can decide okay I am I 
  going to trust that person I'm not going to trust that ecosystem 
  I'm going to trust the issuer's from the ecosystem and if they do 
  they can actually use our infrastructure to to add that and 
  participant into their own trust list within and and then when it 
  comes to like verify apps that are using the verification service 
  as they can access that service and verify incoming cups of.
Lucy Yang:   Tickets from from from the participant so that's 
  kind of like the three steps on.
Lucy Yang:  It were imagining and governors is a very very 
  important piece in there so we just concluded a governance 
  governance consultation we will be sharing a report again in a 
  week or so that touch upon what are the key requirements that a 
  matter network-level Governors and needs to to meet even if we're 
  saying that there's you know we're not each of the participant 
  their government as we're not touching upon but there still needs 
  to be.
Lucy Yang:   Solid good governance at the matter level for any 
Lucy Yang:  Hours of of a network of not work to have confidence 
  in the service that they're accessing so these are like kind of 
  silly that we touch upon a lot of like what what are the what 
  vetting process should be read how how to do benchmarking of 
  existing existing existing ecosystem where networks who are poor 
  who are potential participants of a network of networks to see 
  how how to how we can develop kind of different kind of levels of 
Lucy Yang:   So and and provide information to verify or so is.
Lucy Yang:  To make this a to make fast decisions and whether you 
  when they're using a network of network so these are some of the 
  governance questions we talked about and and which you know we 
  will share and more sua like the the full kind of like summary of 
  all like the questions we touch upon the governor's is a very 
  very it is very very important and also very very complicated 
  topic when it when we're trying to bring like different parties 
  who have their own different ways of doing things together.
Lucy Yang:   So lastly what I'm going to share about I'm going to 
Lucy Yang:  Really sure about that.
Lucy Yang:  We are so we so we have already completed ID develop 
  the technical development of the basic and infrastructure which 
  means like the basic functionalities of applying applying 
  submitting an application and and being published and you using 
  and and discovering a participant that kind of basic 
  functionality is already there so currently we're are in the 
  process of of working with a few.
Lucy Yang:   A few networks on demonstrating.
Lucy Yang:  Also identifying what are like the metadata metadata 
  that needs to be to build a profile so that's the still focusing 
  more on like the under networks who have had existing 
  infrastructures and from the cold world but now expanding into 
  like beyond beyond covid and so that's kind of where the 
  technical side is and we're also hoping to build kind of more of 
  a Sandbox environment where more and more people can actually you 
  know use that and and so this doc I will share the link that also 
  you access like rrr.
Lucy Yang:   Existing on the technical specification and.
Lucy Yang:  On the GitHub where we have all our in a cold and 
  stuff open source and on the on the governance side so we come we 
  completed this first round of governance and discussions and the 
  next round will be mostly focusing on working with some of the 
  existing and networks for example like I kale and and lack Chang 
  those who are who have a their own governance and do some kind of 
  benchmarking and looking at how they are avoiding their their 
  their their issuers and how that could be.
Lucy Yang:   Kind of also be incorporated into.
Lucy Yang:  Into the highwomen.
Lucy Yang:  You know higher level the matter Network level 
  government is so that's the second stage of the the governance 
Lucy Yang:  Add just you last see so I'm going to I'm going to 
  pause here because I think you know probably some you have 
  technical questions I also have this and this is the technical 
  kind of more technical diagram where it shows like how you know 
  we're using on DNS and and DNS sec to secure chain of 
  authenticity and I'm going to see if any any questions you know 
  what weather on the technical and business I were happy to take 
Harrison_Tang: Is there any questions just typing Q Plus 2i 
  yourself to the queue.
Mike Prorock:  Yes on a lot of this obviously about kind of covid 
  certificates which makes sense right because that was kind of the 
  starting place and Initiative for a lot of this work I mean do 
  you see this as broader service Discovery across other areas or 
  possible integration into other initiatives like UNC fact on the 
  supply chain side of things and stuff like that.
Lucy Yang:  Thank you for the question Michael yes I'm even I 
  mean even with the work we're doing now is not just on covid 
  could so so wh all is to is in coordinating This Global Network 
  that is and kind of taking taking things Bianco we're looking at 
  different kind of immunization certificate and health certificate 
  and reason why we're still there is because it's a very very deep 
  class it we need to get deeper right Whoever has existing house.
Lucy Yang:   Of knees and thinking about it that helps us you 
Lucy Yang:  Both the technical and governance side of things how 
  what what more we need to bold and but the infrastructure itself 
  is certainly not limited my work as John and I can we're still 
  part of the house group at undp right that's certainly also kind 
  of how we prioritize our use cases but in general because this is 
  open the work is in the open so we're after a presented iwi had a 
  conversation with Dimitri just like you know looking at how.
Lucy Yang:   This can be your lover is for educational 
  credentials as well.
Lucy Yang:  I think if you're asking me and you know if we're 
  looking at other use cases at uncp I work or not yet because the 
  is there's a lot of deeper question deeper kind of questions we 
  need to kind of or not even deeper but just very practical things 
  we have to solve for example and currently we don't have like a 
  no-account make sophisticated onboarding process if you're 
  thinking about onboarding a participant into a matter Network.
Lucy Yang:   Work those participants ecosystem networks already 
  have their own part of the bones right so.
Lucy Yang:  When the house.
Lucy Yang:  They will ask us how they're going to unboard their 
  participant in a way that you know they can just automatically 
  were eat making easier for them to update their information on 
  the Mountain at work so these kind of like you know the further 
  down the road questions like implementation questions by we need 
  to and also tools we need to bolt so we're trying to dig more 
  into and to these things which we think are universally kind of 
  applicable to other areas but from a use case point of view our 
  work and undp is not branching out to build.
Lucy Yang:   Areas yet but you know this is like open open work 
  right now we're building this.
Lucy Yang:  On the train infrastructure probably many of you know 
  so like we're working very closely with the fraunhofer team 
  looking at other use cases and and you know hoping to support 
  more and more more ecosystem where networks to kind of luggage 
  and this.
Jtwalker2000: So thanks for saying so referencing kind of the the 
  visual excuse me the graphic that that's on the screen each of 
  those at that top level the network registry level where each of 
  those basically those entries point to.
Jtwalker2000: And those trust lists can have their own definition 
  right as defined by the members of that that second level Network 
  and so there's really the opportunity to broaden into other in 
  other use cases it's really the importance is that again there's 
  a agreement a common agreement about what are the properties 
  right that you want to publish right for the discovery of your 
  service on your network and then.
Jtwalker2000:  the top-level network is just a is a.
Jtwalker2000: You know Federated list that has governance so 
  there's some vetting of the participants.
Lucy Yang:  How's the one thing I would ask so we had a really 
  good meeting at multiple good meetings wisdom the gang Global 
  assured identity Network people at iiw so they're looking at 
  similar problems also like mad at Network what what what we we 
  validated a lot of like the things like each you know for each 
  other so just the kind of the high level idea of network network 
  so they focus more on like the financial financial institutions 
  across Water right.
Lucy Yang:   Like initially for their POC we focus more on the.
Lucy Yang:  Credentials but a.
Lucy Yang:  Things we are based on our discussion a lot of things 
  we learn are very much and also what we're thinking a pretty much 
  aligned and and also we realized you know from from learning each 
  other's worked at this there's so much like in you know steps and 
  this topic that you know we want to it took them a probably two 
  years also kind of you know get you know the POC and you know 
  summarizing and reflecting on it but it kind of similar to I for 
  us so how to do which is really understanding like the use cases 
Lucy Yang:   Working on today that will help like whoever you 
  know whoever whatever.
Harrison_Tang: Cool I'm next on the Queue so my original question 
  is like about two months ago we have Isaac and Manu kind of 
  present on lists of lists of verifiable issuers and verifier so 
  my question is whether there's intersection between this work and 
  that work in regards to lists of verifiers verifiable issuers and 
  verifiers and then based on your last comment I was also wanted 
  to ask a follow-up question in regards to you.
Harrison_Tang:  seems like there's different initiatives trying 
  to tackle this problem is this.
Jtwalker2000: What's this song.
Harrison_Tang: Can this digital credential be trusted right so so 
  like my I guess my second question is for example this work and 
  Global Experience at identity Network gain from the 0 i0 IDF open 
  ID Foundation ideas collaboration opportunities include well they 
  are be like one governance framework you believe or will there be 
  separate governance Frameworks.
Lucy Yang:  I'm going to try to address the high level of the 
  first one and John will be able to speak more to the on the 
  technical side my understanding it so that work is related and so 
  one thing I think they're trying to standardize is how giving a 
  credential to to an issuer that says that they're actually 
  they're on on a truck they're on a trust registry right so that's 
  kind of like what for example in our in our scenario.
Lucy Yang:   Rio is once.
Lucy Yang:  It's how a issuer because we don't directly deal with 
  the the issuer itself when we normally deal with like the issue 
  and kind of ecosystem where the ecosystem issuers so how an 
  issuer can actually just quickly prove that they're part of 
  something it when it comes like they're you know verifications I 
  pointing back right to the registry and say is that who are poor 
  part of that something and I think that to something they're 
  trying to address and John you can probably speak more to.
Lucy Yang:   To the technical side of it.
Jtwalker2000:  so regarding.
Jtwalker2000: The question of what what Isaac and Manu presented 
  the list they verify the verifier work would be those verifiers 
  that are have been vetted if you will would be listed would be 
  there so one of the one of these trust lists could have a pointer 
  to a list of vetted.
Jtwalker2000:  Arrow fires and that's how we see.
Jtwalker2000: Coming together the.
Lucy Yang:  Don't you mean you sure are right because this the 
  issuer is that the credential.
Jtwalker2000: Well the there would also be I mean verifiers right 
  it could be a list of lists could be on this list of lists and 
  that's really how the in the structure of that the definition of 
  those verifiers is the work that as I understand it is Isaac and 
  Monica are doing so basically they would both issuer in verifier 
  the issuer is defined as the service provider and if that issue 
  or that service.
Jtwalker2000: Definition in a list of verifiers than those who 
  the pointer to those properties or the pointer to the Service 
  employee would also be on one of these trusts list that's my 
  understanding hope how that works.
Lucy Yang:  Interesting I have a little bit slightly different 
  understanding how is and what I can say is because I suck is 
  leading that work rice also whatever their buting is going to be 
  compatible was to train model and I feel like this is more on the 
  defining a credential that you know whether you are on the issue 
  aside where verifier site you can speak to the fact that you're 
  on a trusted list right that is something doesn't exist yet.
Harrison_Tang: Yeah and then sorry to my second question like 
  then do you think there will only be one unified are we trying to 
  build one unified data governance framework or it will be 
Lucy Yang:  I don't think so I don't think so so one thing we 
  talked with gangs so I in terms of collaboration opportunity I 
  don't know yet but we are so we were very excited that we met and 
  I had a blue because we got to actually learn more about each 
  other's experience and they approach it so they approach their 
  first use case differently because you know the existing 
  financial institutions they can relatively easily leverage do IDC 
  Federation for that kind of trust cross ecosystem trust building 
  which doesn't exist.
Lucy Yang:   Stand-in in our scenario but we're also there they 
  were doing it more from a peer to.
Lucy Yang:  You to be getting worse but they understand that as 
  they start to scale then you think about you know if that kind of 
  peer-to-peer saying without actually a matter Network could work 
  right so what we did is pretty much we started off knowing that 
  we need them out of network that act and that that allow 
  different in existing ecosystem and that work to build a profile 
  on an on the map Network so they can find each other and 
  interoperate so these looks like kind of a different thing but 
  actually you know we're probably gonna get get into kind of merge 
  and kind of sometimes similar.
Lucy Yang:   Models one of the things where we talked about is 
  how that's look at the different use case and see if there are 
  any can we kind of.
Lucy Yang:  Can do better modeling I've what we're thinking about 
  kind of a cross ecosystem kind of interoperability it's an era 
  what are the models that could have could potentially you know 
  solve different kinds of problems so that's something where you 
  know I'm interested in learning more by following their work but 
  the in terms of immediate kind of collaboration or not I believe 
  will still be more kind of like last learning from each other and 
  see where were that kind of like Synergy work collaboration would 
Harrison_Tang: Thank you thanks until your next in the queue.
Lucy Yang:  I feel we can't hear you.
Lucy Yang:  And can't now.
<phil_l_(p1)> Audio troubles pass to the next
Harrison_Tang: I'll read what he wrote he's trying to ask are we 
  talking about using well-established TCP IP search methods to 
  find services and different provider of domains skipping the need 
  to create a metamodel semantic search from end that's his 
Lucy Yang:  I will try to explain a high level and so what what 
  what our understanding is each of those existing ecosystem they 
  already have their own domain by where they host their you know 
  the holster website that hosts their infrastructure so what we're 
  doing is we for the men at work we set up our own environment we 
  have our own domain and so that's where all like the profiles are 
  being submitted and build but essentially as once a profile is 
Lucy Yang:   Submitted and approved and published on our domain 
Lucy Yang:  We need to point so we're not hosting older data 
  where older infrastructure by the our infrastructure is just 
  pointing to so when for example if I find on a man at work I find 
  that you you call my certificate ecosystem so I will have like 
  all who they are you know what they do what kind of credentials 
  are issuing and also their you know link to their public keys and 
  a link to other things linked to their covenants linked to other 
  things so when I I'm as a potential verifier right and looking 
  discovering these Services I want to make sure when.
Lucy Yang:   I clicked a link I provided like in the profile I'm 
  actually being directed to actually the EU you know MBA.
Lucy Yang:  Switches on their own domain so what we're like the 
  by saying leveraging existing domain and the domain name system 
  that's what we meant and by and the additional part we have is 
  actually having the domain and DNS security extension which means 
  all the profile when they're published we sign those profiles so 
  we make sure like when we're pointing people to a link We 
  pointing over pointing them like there's no fish in happening in 
  between so this is I mean is it that's how I.
Lucy Yang:   Like we're left leveraging some which means so 
  whoever our hope whoever.
Lucy Yang:  I'm saying they don't have to change any other 
  Technologies they already have their own a domain and hosting it 
  right so that's pretty much for the Men at Work not work needs to 
  set up a separate domain that can host a different profiles think 
  John can't speak to more like the technical site.
<phil_l_(p1)> Thanks - sorry for the audio input drop at my end.
Jtwalker2000: I think I think that the essence of but Loosely 
  described is that we are taking the approach of establishing 
  metadata or enhanced semantic metadata for Network entries and 
  not necessarily so we're again we are talking about using a 
  addition metamodel.
Jtwalker2000:  L /.
Jtwalker2000: Trust registry per domain.
Harrison_Tang: Okay I do that or you still have all your issues.
<phil_l_(p1)> Audo issues still
Harrison_Tang: All right no problem.
Jtwalker2000: I'd be interested to know what Phil suggestion for 
  just an example of an existing TCP IP Search tool.
Harrison_Tang: Any other questions.
Harrison_Tang: So I'll refill on never mind any other questions 
  for Lucy and John.
Harrison_Tang: I thank you thanks a lot Lucy thanks John for 
  hopping on to do this great presentation.
Harrison_Tang: All right any last like introductions 
  reintroductions announcements and reminders.
<tallted_//_ted_thibodeau_(he/him)_(openlinksw.com)> ilnk to 
  today's deck?
Harrison_Tang: No okay all right just want to do a last call out 
  again like if you know any way I / identity experts please just 
  send us to you know help introduce them to the cultures and then 
  we can align those presentations up so thanks a lot have a good 
  one bye.
Lucy Yang: 
Harrison_Tang: Must be on your mind.
Lucy Yang: https://www.sparkblue.org/Regi-TRUST
Lucy Yang:  Shared the link to the to the dock in the chat so you 
  have you have it.
Lucy Yang:  Okay great thank you.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you and I'll send it to the list thanks a 
  lot thanks Lucy.

Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2023 07:20:24 UTC