- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 07:20:24 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-05-09/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-05-09/audio.ogg ---------------------------------------------------------------- W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2023-05-09 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=May&period_year=2023&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date Organizer: Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang Scribe: Our Robot Overlords Present: Jennie Meier, Lucy Yang, Harrison Tang, Paul Murdock, Keith Kowal, Greg Bernstein, Jeff O - HumanOS, James Chartrand, Mike Prorock, Phil L (P1), Gregory Natran, Mike Xu, Stuart Freeman, George L (GOV.UK), Wendy Seltzer, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Bob Wyman, Kimberly Linson, Sharon Leu, Kerri Lemoie, jtwalker2000, Paul Dietrich GS1, Dmitri Zagidulin, Leo, Erica Connell, Andres Uribe, BrentZ, Sandy Aggarwal, David I. Lehn, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Nate Otto <harrison_tang> We'll start in 1 min Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: Recording is on. Harrison_Tang: All right so go good morning or good afternoon for people in different parts of the world so welcome to this week's w3c ccg meeting today we are very happy to have Lucy to present on the topic of digital trust infrastructure for Discovery and validation where Reggie trust before we get there just want to do a couple quick. Harrison_Tang: code of ethics and professional conduct reminder. Harrison_Tang: More let's just make sure that you know we are respectful to each other and you know make sure that we acknowledge different perspectives a quick-acting know anyone can participate in these calls Harbor all substantive contributions to any CG work items must be member of the ccg with full IP our agreement signed make sure you have the w3c account and you have any questions or troubles just let us know. Harrison_Tang: we do have a standing. Harrison_Tang: To update the ccg wtcg website so that's still on the to-do list hopefully we can kind of update that in the next month or two all right I could quick call notes these meetings are being recorded and they will be meeting minutes published they are all automatically transcribed and we will publish the meeting minutes in the next few days. Harrison_Tang: we used to teach at. Harrison_Tang: Beakers doing a call so you can type in Q Plus to add yourself to the Q q- to remove and then Q question mark to to see who's in the queue. Harrison_Tang: all right. Harrison_Tang: Quick introductions and reintroductions if you're new to the w3c Huger Community or if you haven't been active and you're coming back can you just mute and introduce or reintroduce yourself. Jtwalker2000: Oh sure my name is John Walker and I have participated in ccg before haven't been active in a while but I'm here to work with the Lucy Yang and talk we have a presentation later in the meeting. Harrison_Tang: Welcome back John any other introductions were reintroductions. Harrison_Tang: I next any announcements were reminders. Harrison_Tang: I saw last time we talked about if there's any topics in regards to the intersection of AI and identity that people are interested in actually last time people mentioned that they will be interested to hear toxin presentation regards to the intersection of AI and come Ai and identity so if you know any speakers or anyone that could actually present on these topics. Harrison_Tang: it's just that any of the cultures now and then we'll. Harrison_Tang: Invite them and add them to the content content calendar and if there's any presentations in the last iiw a few weeks back that you think would be interesting to our audience please let us know too. Harrison_Tang: Any other announcements and reminders. Harrison_Tang: All right any updates on the work items. Harrison_Tang: So I see there is an email thread around the rendering message so we will send the email to Manu and Dimitri to see if they could actually present on the rendering method the problem statement know the proposed Solutions and things like that later this week. Harrison_Tang: All right anything else. Harrison_Tang: So let's get to the main agenda so this week we have Lucy and John to hear to come here and present on digital trust infrastructure for Discovery and validations or Reggie trust so Reggie trust is a un development programme initiative that use the domain name system to facilitate its Discovery and validation of trusted Digital Services so that then go into that more so. Harrison_Tang: welcome thank you. Lucy Yang: Thanks Harrison for having me so hopefully everyone can see see me on the screen so you know who is talking behind that camera yeah thanks for having me and this presentation I did once at IW a few weeks ago I'm so I'm going to give that presentation mostly kind of the same presentation again here and but before I get there and share my screen I just wanted to kind of introduce like the contacts a little bit more. Lucy Yang: Some of you may know me. Lucy Yang: The Colbert credentials initiative that's how kind of initially you know God's deeper into the decentralized identity community and so this project so John and I we used and also actually clear was also part of it when we were all at the Linux Foundation supporting covid a credential project and this project was in cubed initially started and in Atlantis foundation and was incubated there and in 20 that was 20 21 and then 2022. Lucy Yang: As we're building the technology infrastructure we realize there are a lot of governance and. Lucy Yang: Needs to happen for for us to keep using technology so we start looking for hosts you know host work Nations who can have actually helped us on governance side and luckily we got the kind of support from United Nations development program that how we moved from Linux Foundation to to you and DP in summer 2022 and the project has been since then being developed there and undp so and a lot of like the the use cases and we're kind of. Lucy Yang: The use case that we have been focused on is more on like the covid credentials and. Lucy Yang: But the the infrastructure itself it's certainly have broader broader use and particularly how many I think I've been on a few of the calls where we talked about how you know they're different trust ecosystem and different trustless and how these things kind of interoperate for especially from from a kind of kind of a governance where trust point of view so that's kind of like the key issue and we're trying to address I'll get more into there and so so currently like John and I are like the two of us we are Consultants at undp. Lucy Yang: So that's kind of one hat and wearing and also some of you also may know me like you know. Lucy Yang: Business Partnership was Kalia is our consulting firm which is because separate from the front this initiative so just with this contact so I'm a business person so like my main role in the project is just really just making sure we're developing the infrastructure in a way that I can actually solve real-world problems especially like some of the problems we already know today as well as bringing the right Partners into the conversation and and John singing glad to have John here so he he is our technical lead so are my presentation was. Lucy Yang: So focusing on kind of a high-level and the Business and Technology side and then if you know many of you. Lucy Yang: Too technical here so if any for the second question is in John 6 year to answer and support these questions so without further Ado let me share my screen. Lucy Yang: Can everyone see see my screen. Lucy Yang: Okay great so I'm just it's a it's a Google Docs I'm gonna keep scrolling scrolling down so yes as Harrison mentioned the project now is called and digital trust infrastructure for Discovery and validation so we're trying we're trying to develop a global infrastructure and to discover any kind of crossed services but you know whichever kind of ecosystem you're part of by using universally accessible internet infrastructure and that's what very important especially. Lucy Yang: At the United Nation because we and. Lucy Yang: Our experience was cold but because a lot of countries are not you know in the position of our don't have well-developed technology infrastructure so so when we're developing this we kept that in mind so how we can leverage what we already have and making it easy for anyone to kind of to be able to join a global level ecosystem work Global level to be able to leverage a global trust infrastructure. Lucy Yang: So as mentioned earlier on this project was initially and started in Linux foundation called Global covid-19 certificate Network the goal is pretty much then was to address interoperability challenges between the existing covid-19 certificate ecosystem you probably your probably use one of them if you're in the EU there's the EU you know ecosystem there's and in North America there's vaccine credential initiative which is a kind of a public which is kind of like Consortium but involved. Lucy Yang: And public sector and both public sector and private sector and. Lucy Yang: Ecosystem networks kind of in different parts of the world so are our kind of main stakeholders and partners and we're at Linux foundation and even now today are those who have had those infrastructure in place and currently there are certainly going Beyond just like focusing on covid but more like in immunization certificates and house house credentials when it comes to cross borders and arrows and so when we transition to undp like we are under we're now under like the still. Lucy Yang: Like the house kind of group at undp and. Lucy Yang: Kind of man this just really support to support who who just started was and pilot was G20 countries to try to establish a global trust Network for covid certificate certificate is now also expanding beyond beyond that beyond that kind of one use case and a same time like we're aware that there are other kind of use cases for example I've heard about you know educational credentials I've heard of. Lucy Yang: And to a. Lucy Yang: Different like Silo ecosystem from how having their own trusted kind of have their own kind of trustless where their government is how these you know when the credentials are crossing ecosystem even not even necessary Crossing Borders just crossing ecosystem how how to deal with it how to kind of like being able to build trust even first to find out who is out there and also build trust before any verification can happen so that's kind of the issue that exists and across use cases. Lucy Yang: So so what we're trying to do is just really to develop. Lucy Yang: To enable kind of scalable kind of work what we have in mind how we can have a network of networks right kind of network that kind of facilitate the different ecotrust ecosystem in terms of like discovering them validating them and the using exhibit existing infrastructure the particular one we're using now is and it's a domain name system and the security extension oh just before I introduce my I just want to make clear so today's presentation. Lucy Yang: And you know it's. Lucy Yang: A presentation we developed like part as part of the project but anything we're not representing like United Nations development program today. Lucy Yang: So just kind of like dive a little bit more into like the particular I'm problem space where n think if you've been like if you've been working in the credential space for some time you probably kind of have understanding of different different type of enter our interoperability we're talking about and at least my experience and in covet is it's so. Lucy Yang: Ultimate goal we want to reach is. Lucy Yang: I shall coming from what ecosystem to another ecosystem like the verifier will be able to recognize and exchange data and it was like the like the semantic interoperability being able to recognize and change the data in a meaningful Way by having the knowledge of data processing and data usage context and also also like preserving the also preserving while preserving privacy right that that but at the end of day why ecosystem should be able. Lucy Yang: To understand like that you know what is what they're actually. Lucy Yang: Our find what is the context of that so that's kind of like the goal like we're trying to achieve when it comes to credential verification and and to achieve that there's so many layers that needs to be addressed for that semantic interoperability to be in place and my experience was cold but it's mostly more because is it's very urgent issue so the countries were existing networks were mostly focusing on kind of technical side like how being able to technically access you know what the keys you know and knowing like what. Lucy Yang: Data model of. Lucy Yang: What data model was schemas you know the signature the keys and figuring out the technical side of things and just really you know and getting getting public he's from from different places and then have a list of they can use to access and verify so that's kind of like a quick quick really quick way of solving the problem at the time and but but but many who have been working you should realize if you know it's there are things that are not in there are. Lucy Yang: More than just like technical interoperability especially when it comes to. Lucy Yang: Different countries and different jurisdictions have different rules regarding issuing credentials and verifying credentials why when some when it's it's one thing just to get public a public key but the energy from from a country but it is another thing that's really under understand what when they're using that public key to verify your credential what what that actually is right but that kind of like you know the trust building part of the it didn't happen a lot because just it was there a lot of things that governments were whatever issue. Lucy Yang: And verifying had to have to deal with and and so so there's and also. Lucy Yang: Probably many of you. Lucy Yang: Notice like during covid there's just so many people who are out there issuing and you don't know who exactly who's out there it's not like that he is the as you know you know there are certain authorities but in a country that issue passports like you know who to go and and you know who you know like there is a definite number of number of entities authorities who are issuing certain credentials but that's not the case like in cold wet and also that's probably not the case in you know. Lucy Yang: In educational education credential space either right. Lucy Yang: Many different parties were issuing so just even figuring out who are issuing credentials are hard so the problem we're trying to solve is like when when when someone needs to verify more about when a verification needs to kind of know who they can trust in the first place the first need to know who is out there and second just being able to access and evaluate trusted information about about a sure we're about a kind of issuing the ecosystem and and and to make sure they can. Lucy Yang: Actually trust that ecosystem or trusted issuer before any verification can happen so that's the. Lucy Yang: Ability and Trust interoperability kind of that two areas are like we think is emerging problem space that was not that we haven't been dealt and haven't been discussed much where I also haven't been dealt with much so this is like the area where particularly focusing on not that technical interoperability is not important it is important but we feel like this is like an area like a lot of people have already been working on this. Lucy Yang: I'm I'm not following. Lucy Yang: Not following the chance of anything in the chat I can't go I'm not able to dress now okay nothing in the trap now. Lucy Yang: So just very very quickly about how how we we how we came up was with a kind of like the model the network of network model we're using now we evaluated at the two kind of may attempt where two models that were in the market were in the market where you know existing models of trust building and so for the first one is so all these examples are so kind of from our our covid experience and so. Lucy Yang: The first one is so we seeing. Lucy Yang: Countries and different ecosystem they have to work kind of but latterly to exchange keys and and not not even and also to exchange keys I also have like Mutual policy agreements if you know it's if that's what's needed for particularly for jurisdictions and countries so there were a lot of duplicated efforts and and also very poor user experience when it comes to because everything is kind of manual is kind of a Greek mutually and also manually manually downloading and getting keys and getting. Lucy Yang: Other related information and and and when when for example. Lucy Yang: If you're doing man you downloading with someone is updating the keys we're updating any information that they won't happen you know like the very like the party who man who have been Amidala those information need actually to go back and get updated information again so so just in general this does is this is not a scalable approach another approach that we look at and also like dived into is it's just bring everything to one giant platform. Lucy Yang: ERM this is really hard because I think because of the. Lucy Yang: One thing we mentioned earlier is there are there no there's a growing number of like ecosystems and assures are issuing credentials and just really really just there's there's no end to you know what how no Aunt to like bringing no idea how much how many parties you have to bring a non to all centralized like Federation services and especially when I come when I come to like Nations days that have their own. Lucy Yang: Roan that want their own autonomy and they want their own sovereignty they don't. Lucy Yang: To kind of. Lucy Yang: One side of like standards and policies and also don't want to have everything onto like a centralized services and it's just going to get really really complicated both from a technical and from a policy point of view and also here we're not only talking about just giving having public keys in into one centralized service but also like the metadata the revocation data and I'll business rules data and potentially other things that. Lucy Yang: That is required for kind of verifications so this. Lucy Yang: Like even think even trying to find an operational entity that you know Define all these and provide all these Services it's really really hard so that's this is also like this so we don't think that this model could work so the third the third one we're showing here is pretty much how we we're having or still likes a federation model but we is a decentralized federation model that allows ecosystem to operate under different Technical and policy framework but but at the same. Lucy Yang: I'm time still being able to participate in a global ecosystem so they. Lucy Yang: Happens is instead of really happy you know giving their data to a centralized ecosystem it giving their data to the centralized Services each existing Network where ecosystem they need to build a profile that that includes exam based basic and metadata information about them suffers a like you who is operator of their Network and and what what the it credentials are issuing there could be there could there set of metadata that can be. Lucy Yang: Find by the. Lucy Yang: But just idea is that each ecosystem can come and build their own profile that includes some information and also pointers to there to other existing systems that so they don't have to kind of submit all the data into a centralized platform but at the same time because our platform is using using DNS and DNS security and DNS SEC so when the profile is established being signed we're making sure that whoever are using the platform that discover for example Discovery you. Lucy Yang: You they will be pointed to infirmity the there will be looking at. Lucy Yang: Nation will be pointed to and point that actually are provided and guaranteed you know like by provided by the EU and guarantee that they're actually going to the place that they think they're going to so that's kind of like the and also like the the decentralized Federated platform won't be dictating where we won't be controlling how each each profile or how each ecosystem that participated on the platform what you know what path. Lucy Yang: Technical policies they should have what what what what. Lucy Yang: Regulations doesn't work out - they should have so every it's more like a way of having be enabling as many as party to participate and item matter level as possible but it's at the same time at the same time not not asking them to kind of to lose their autonomy were to change their existing governance because that's just super super hard especially when it comes to a nation states and then like the verification services or whoever. Lucy Yang: We are providing. Lucy Yang: Whether your country who are you are you are just a part you know and that work work you can you can you can use use access that decentralized Federated platform and discover all like the profiles are listed there and then look into them and decide who you're going to trust and then at the end of day you can choose you can pick all these are the you know the few people that ecosystems like I will trust in you I will trust her credentials and you can you can actually download whatever. Lucy Yang: You're needed selectively download the information. Lucy Yang: That is needed to your own back-end server and then that's the best and then you are verified applications whatever verification verify apps that you're providing can actually access like your own back answer your own back-end server and getting the keys in whatever needed were being pointed to the directly to the to the ecosystem instead of like everything is going to the centralized platform so I'm hoping that I'm providing enough high level so you can dig more into the technical side if you want to after the presentation. Lucy Yang: So in terms of like how so. Lucy Yang: We are are the the use case where we're addressing was mostly in at the global level which would but doesn't necessarily have to be at the global level for example if for example I'm based in Canada right if like the peach provinces are in charge of like its own like healthcare system so if if like add the country level 100 level there's a need there need some kind of coordination among these provinces in regarding house credentials or whatever other credentials that. Lucy Yang: Could be like our model can be applied so essentially is a network of networks model like. Lucy Yang: Whatever level that makes sense to implement her so that can work. Lucy Yang: Here were showing like kind of a high level kind of infrastructure picture so there's the one time when you're looking at a network not registry so we're not only at the mental level so we are can also an enable whichever participant who wants to use our infrastructure is pretty much a layered infrastructure that can be applied at different levels but in but at the end of day is and The Meta level is what at least it's something that is the decentralized. Lucy Yang: Federation where the. Lucy Yang: So we're looking at and and different kind of like scenarios where for example I and the enables intergovernmental organizations to implement and operate this and that that can facilitate the interoperability amount of different different disco ecosystem and services across borders and also we're looking at governments and and work Nations a large to participate in ecosystem if you don't run anything if you want I'm just I run existence ecosystem I want to. Lucy Yang: Look at which existing kind of matter now. Lucy Yang: I can participate as you can look at where you can build your profiles right so that could be you know a different levels and and kind of the third thing we're looking at is like consumers like both as an individual's work Nations will be able to easily discover what is out there but you can probably owe you can do we're imagining different kind of like that work I'm not work so I could be one like for house credentials and Global level they're probably even went there probably wasn't that are like at the country level they can also participate in a global level so it's all kind of late. Lucy Yang: Our Approach at the same time there could be you know education credentials like Network which is a separate which is a separate thing from from House. Lucy Yang: That we're going to see. Lucy Yang: A lot of like this not works and also network of networks that kind of interacting but essentially like the model is whoever are running their own ecosystem shouldn't be shouldn't should not need to actually change their policies and and and you know technical infrastructure to be able to interoperate at as a kind of broader level so essentially I'm this is this is already touching upon kind of a governance an operation so we which we are were not like Define we're not. Lucy Yang: Intending to defining for anyone who wanted to run a network of not work but. Lucy Yang: Kind of three steps on each side so on the participating side we're looking at there's application process to be become a participant at the at the network of a network of networks and then like the participant these to get battered and then like the the profile getting published and then what that means they will that that participant will be able to be discovered and then on the you and the using on the user side we're very far side yes to being discovering who. Lucy Yang: Who is Alan that work is the first step. Lucy Yang: Evaluating the information the profile of a participant and the verification service can decide okay I am I going to trust that person I'm not going to trust that ecosystem I'm going to trust the issuer's from the ecosystem and if they do they can actually use our infrastructure to to add that and participant into their own trust list within and and then when it comes to like verify apps that are using the verification service as they can access that service and verify incoming cups of. Lucy Yang: Tickets from from from the participant so that's kind of like the three steps on. Lucy Yang: It were imagining and governors is a very very important piece in there so we just concluded a governance governance consultation we will be sharing a report again in a week or so that touch upon what are the key requirements that a matter network-level Governors and needs to to meet even if we're saying that there's you know we're not each of the participant their government as we're not touching upon but there still needs to be. Lucy Yang: Solid good governance at the matter level for any you. Lucy Yang: Hours of of a network of not work to have confidence in the service that they're accessing so these are like kind of silly that we touch upon a lot of like what what are the what vetting process should be read how how to do benchmarking of existing existing existing ecosystem where networks who are poor who are potential participants of a network of networks to see how how to how we can develop kind of different kind of levels of assurance. Lucy Yang: So and and provide information to verify or so is. Lucy Yang: To make this a to make fast decisions and whether you when they're using a network of network so these are some of the governance questions we talked about and and which you know we will share and more sua like the the full kind of like summary of all like the questions we touch upon the governor's is a very very it is very very important and also very very complicated topic when it when we're trying to bring like different parties who have their own different ways of doing things together. Lucy Yang: So lastly what I'm going to share about I'm going to just. Lucy Yang: Really sure about that. Lucy Yang: We are so we so we have already completed ID develop the technical development of the basic and infrastructure which means like the basic functionalities of applying applying submitting an application and and being published and you using and and discovering a participant that kind of basic functionality is already there so currently we're are in the process of of working with a few. Lucy Yang: A few networks on demonstrating. Lucy Yang: Also identifying what are like the metadata metadata that needs to be to build a profile so that's the still focusing more on like the under networks who have had existing infrastructures and from the cold world but now expanding into like beyond beyond covid and so that's kind of where the technical side is and we're also hoping to build kind of more of a Sandbox environment where more and more people can actually you know use that and and so this doc I will share the link that also you access like rrr. Lucy Yang: Existing on the technical specification and. Lucy Yang: On the GitHub where we have all our in a cold and stuff open source and on the on the governance side so we come we completed this first round of governance and discussions and the next round will be mostly focusing on working with some of the existing and networks for example like I kale and and lack Chang those who are who have a their own governance and do some kind of benchmarking and looking at how they are avoiding their their their their issuers and how that could be. Lucy Yang: Kind of also be incorporated into. Lucy Yang: Into the highwomen. Lucy Yang: You know higher level the matter Network level government is so that's the second stage of the the governance discussions. Lucy Yang: Add just you last see so I'm going to I'm going to pause here because I think you know probably some you have technical questions I also have this and this is the technical kind of more technical diagram where it shows like how you know we're using on DNS and and DNS sec to secure chain of authenticity and I'm going to see if any any questions you know what weather on the technical and business I were happy to take questions. Harrison_Tang: Is there any questions just typing Q Plus 2i yourself to the queue. Mike Prorock: Yes on a lot of this obviously about kind of covid certificates which makes sense right because that was kind of the starting place and Initiative for a lot of this work I mean do you see this as broader service Discovery across other areas or possible integration into other initiatives like UNC fact on the supply chain side of things and stuff like that. Lucy Yang: Thank you for the question Michael yes I'm even I mean even with the work we're doing now is not just on covid could so so wh all is to is in coordinating This Global Network that is and kind of taking taking things Bianco we're looking at different kind of immunization certificate and health certificate and reason why we're still there is because it's a very very deep class it we need to get deeper right Whoever has existing house. Lucy Yang: Of knees and thinking about it that helps us you know. Lucy Yang: Both the technical and governance side of things how what what more we need to bold and but the infrastructure itself is certainly not limited my work as John and I can we're still part of the house group at undp right that's certainly also kind of how we prioritize our use cases but in general because this is open the work is in the open so we're after a presented iwi had a conversation with Dimitri just like you know looking at how. Lucy Yang: This can be your lover is for educational credentials as well. Lucy Yang: I think if you're asking me and you know if we're looking at other use cases at uncp I work or not yet because the is there's a lot of deeper question deeper kind of questions we need to kind of or not even deeper but just very practical things we have to solve for example and currently we don't have like a no-account make sophisticated onboarding process if you're thinking about onboarding a participant into a matter Network. Lucy Yang: Work those participants ecosystem networks already have their own part of the bones right so. Lucy Yang: When the house. Lucy Yang: They will ask us how they're going to unboard their participant in a way that you know they can just automatically were eat making easier for them to update their information on the Mountain at work so these kind of like you know the further down the road questions like implementation questions by we need to and also tools we need to bolt so we're trying to dig more into and to these things which we think are universally kind of applicable to other areas but from a use case point of view our work and undp is not branching out to build. Lucy Yang: Areas yet but you know this is like open open work right now we're building this. Lucy Yang: On the train infrastructure probably many of you know so like we're working very closely with the fraunhofer team looking at other use cases and and you know hoping to support more and more more ecosystem where networks to kind of luggage and this. Jtwalker2000: So thanks for saying so referencing kind of the the visual excuse me the graphic that that's on the screen each of those at that top level the network registry level where each of those basically those entries point to. Jtwalker2000: And those trust lists can have their own definition right as defined by the members of that that second level Network and so there's really the opportunity to broaden into other in other use cases it's really the importance is that again there's a agreement a common agreement about what are the properties right that you want to publish right for the discovery of your service on your network and then. Jtwalker2000: the top-level network is just a is a. Jtwalker2000: You know Federated list that has governance so there's some vetting of the participants. Lucy Yang: How's the one thing I would ask so we had a really good meeting at multiple good meetings wisdom the gang Global assured identity Network people at iiw so they're looking at similar problems also like mad at Network what what what we we validated a lot of like the things like each you know for each other so just the kind of the high level idea of network network so they focus more on like the financial financial institutions across Water right. Lucy Yang: Like initially for their POC we focus more on the. Lucy Yang: Credentials but a. Lucy Yang: Things we are based on our discussion a lot of things we learn are very much and also what we're thinking a pretty much aligned and and also we realized you know from from learning each other's worked at this there's so much like in you know steps and this topic that you know we want to it took them a probably two years also kind of you know get you know the POC and you know summarizing and reflecting on it but it kind of similar to I for us so how to do which is really understanding like the use cases were. Lucy Yang: Working on today that will help like whoever you know whoever whatever. Harrison_Tang: Cool I'm next on the Queue so my original question is like about two months ago we have Isaac and Manu kind of present on lists of lists of verifiable issuers and verifier so my question is whether there's intersection between this work and that work in regards to lists of verifiers verifiable issuers and verifiers and then based on your last comment I was also wanted to ask a follow-up question in regards to you. Harrison_Tang: seems like there's different initiatives trying to tackle this problem is this. Jtwalker2000: What's this song. Harrison_Tang: Can this digital credential be trusted right so so like my I guess my second question is for example this work and Global Experience at identity Network gain from the 0 i0 IDF open ID Foundation ideas collaboration opportunities include well they are be like one governance framework you believe or will there be separate governance Frameworks. Lucy Yang: I'm going to try to address the high level of the first one and John will be able to speak more to the on the technical side my understanding it so that work is related and so one thing I think they're trying to standardize is how giving a credential to to an issuer that says that they're actually they're on on a truck they're on a trust registry right so that's kind of like what for example in our in our scenario. Lucy Yang: Rio is once. Lucy Yang: It's how a issuer because we don't directly deal with the the issuer itself when we normally deal with like the issue and kind of ecosystem where the ecosystem issuers so how an issuer can actually just quickly prove that they're part of something it when it comes like they're you know verifications I pointing back right to the registry and say is that who are poor part of that something and I think that to something they're trying to address and John you can probably speak more to. Lucy Yang: To the technical side of it. Jtwalker2000: so regarding. Jtwalker2000: The question of what what Isaac and Manu presented the list they verify the verifier work would be those verifiers that are have been vetted if you will would be listed would be there so one of the one of these trust lists could have a pointer to a list of vetted. Jtwalker2000: Arrow fires and that's how we see. Jtwalker2000: Coming together the. Lucy Yang: Don't you mean you sure are right because this the issuer is that the credential. Jtwalker2000: Well the there would also be I mean verifiers right it could be a list of lists could be on this list of lists and that's really how the in the structure of that the definition of those verifiers is the work that as I understand it is Isaac and Monica are doing so basically they would both issuer in verifier the issuer is defined as the service provider and if that issue or that service. Jtwalker2000: Definition in a list of verifiers than those who the pointer to those properties or the pointer to the Service employee would also be on one of these trusts list that's my understanding hope how that works. Lucy Yang: Interesting I have a little bit slightly different understanding how is and what I can say is because I suck is leading that work rice also whatever their buting is going to be compatible was to train model and I feel like this is more on the defining a credential that you know whether you are on the issue aside where verifier site you can speak to the fact that you're on a trusted list right that is something doesn't exist yet. Harrison_Tang: Yeah and then sorry to my second question like then do you think there will only be one unified are we trying to build one unified data governance framework or it will be multiple. Lucy Yang: I don't think so I don't think so so one thing we talked with gangs so I in terms of collaboration opportunity I don't know yet but we are so we were very excited that we met and I had a blue because we got to actually learn more about each other's experience and they approach it so they approach their first use case differently because you know the existing financial institutions they can relatively easily leverage do IDC Federation for that kind of trust cross ecosystem trust building which doesn't exist. Lucy Yang: Stand-in in our scenario but we're also there they were doing it more from a peer to. Lucy Yang: You to be getting worse but they understand that as they start to scale then you think about you know if that kind of peer-to-peer saying without actually a matter Network could work right so what we did is pretty much we started off knowing that we need them out of network that act and that that allow different in existing ecosystem and that work to build a profile on an on the map Network so they can find each other and interoperate so these looks like kind of a different thing but actually you know we're probably gonna get get into kind of merge and kind of sometimes similar. Lucy Yang: Models one of the things where we talked about is how that's look at the different use case and see if there are any can we kind of. Lucy Yang: Can do better modeling I've what we're thinking about kind of a cross ecosystem kind of interoperability it's an era what are the models that could have could potentially you know solve different kinds of problems so that's something where you know I'm interested in learning more by following their work but the in terms of immediate kind of collaboration or not I believe will still be more kind of like last learning from each other and see where were that kind of like Synergy work collaboration would be. Harrison_Tang: Thank you thanks until your next in the queue. Lucy Yang: I feel we can't hear you. Lucy Yang: And can't now. <phil_l_(p1)> Audio troubles pass to the next Harrison_Tang: I'll read what he wrote he's trying to ask are we talking about using well-established TCP IP search methods to find services and different provider of domains skipping the need to create a metamodel semantic search from end that's his question. Lucy Yang: I will try to explain a high level and so what what what our understanding is each of those existing ecosystem they already have their own domain by where they host their you know the holster website that hosts their infrastructure so what we're doing is we for the men at work we set up our own environment we have our own domain and so that's where all like the profiles are being submitted and build but essentially as once a profile is is. Lucy Yang: Submitted and approved and published on our domain and. Lucy Yang: We need to point so we're not hosting older data where older infrastructure by the our infrastructure is just pointing to so when for example if I find on a man at work I find that you you call my certificate ecosystem so I will have like all who they are you know what they do what kind of credentials are issuing and also their you know link to their public keys and a link to other things linked to their covenants linked to other things so when I I'm as a potential verifier right and looking discovering these Services I want to make sure when. Lucy Yang: I clicked a link I provided like in the profile I'm actually being directed to actually the EU you know MBA. Lucy Yang: Switches on their own domain so what we're like the by saying leveraging existing domain and the domain name system that's what we meant and by and the additional part we have is actually having the domain and DNS security extension which means all the profile when they're published we sign those profiles so we make sure like when we're pointing people to a link We pointing over pointing them like there's no fish in happening in between so this is I mean is it that's how I. Lucy Yang: Like we're left leveraging some which means so whoever our hope whoever. Lucy Yang: I'm saying they don't have to change any other Technologies they already have their own a domain and hosting it right so that's pretty much for the Men at Work not work needs to set up a separate domain that can host a different profiles think John can't speak to more like the technical site. <phil_l_(p1)> Thanks - sorry for the audio input drop at my end. Jtwalker2000: I think I think that the essence of but Loosely described is that we are taking the approach of establishing metadata or enhanced semantic metadata for Network entries and not necessarily so we're again we are talking about using a addition metamodel. Jtwalker2000: L /. Jtwalker2000: Trust registry per domain. Harrison_Tang: Okay I do that or you still have all your issues. <phil_l_(p1)> Audo issues still Harrison_Tang: All right no problem. Jtwalker2000: I'd be interested to know what Phil suggestion for just an example of an existing TCP IP Search tool. Harrison_Tang: Any other questions. Harrison_Tang: So I'll refill on never mind any other questions for Lucy and John. Harrison_Tang: I thank you thanks a lot Lucy thanks John for hopping on to do this great presentation. Harrison_Tang: All right any last like introductions reintroductions announcements and reminders. <tallted_//_ted_thibodeau_(he/him)_(openlinksw.com)> ilnk to today's deck? Harrison_Tang: No okay all right just want to do a last call out again like if you know any way I / identity experts please just send us to you know help introduce them to the cultures and then we can align those presentations up so thanks a lot have a good one bye. Lucy Yang: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CWjPyVMjU7lZCbzXNEqrwtklZhv5Ngxn/view Harrison_Tang: Must be on your mind. Lucy Yang: https://www.sparkblue.org/Regi-TRUST Lucy Yang: Shared the link to the to the dock in the chat so you have you have it. Lucy Yang: Okay great thank you. Harrison_Tang: Thank you and I'll send it to the list thanks a lot thanks Lucy.
Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2023 07:20:24 UTC