[MINUTES] W3C CCG Traceability Call - 2023-04-18

Thanks to Benjamin Collins and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-18-traceability/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-18-traceability/audio.ogg

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Verifiable Traceability Task Force Transcript for 2023-04-18

Agenda:
  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Apr&period_year=2023&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Topics:
  1. trace-vocab PR's
  2. Trace-Interop Issues
Organizer:
  Orie Steele, Mike Prorock, Mahmoud Alkhraishi
Scribe:
  Benjamin Collins and Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Mahmoud Alkhraishi, Russell Hofvendahl, Benjamin Collins, TallTed 
  // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Orie Steele, Nis 
  Jespersen , Ted Thibodeau

<orie> I just joined
Benjamin Collins is scribing.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): I don't know I don't know what 
  happened.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Today we're doing trace-interop, we will 
  start with PR's [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  On the trace-interop side there is only one 
  draft PR from Mike. We have pinged him the last several meetings 
  with no response. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  We can ask him about the timeline about that 
  PR. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  We have switch to the trace-vocab PR's 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pull/735

Topic: trace-vocab PR's

Orie Steele:  This PR was supposed to be simple, but there were 
  issues I encountered when working on it. So I fixed errors in 
  test that I'm not sure why other people weren't seeing. 
  Essentially all this does is change the default vocab to use the 
  term for the vc-data-model. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  We still get the ability to track undefined terms. 
  But for now we're not defining a new term, we're using the same 
  one as the v2 option. It is possible for us to define a term that 
  differs from the core data model, but I don't think we need to. 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I was going to ask you if there are two 
  vocabs, which one wins. But it sounds like the last one wins. 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  The JSON-LD processor determines that behavior, but 
  as far as I know, the last @vocab defined is the one that get's 
  used. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  When we migrate to v2, can we remove the 
  @vocab expansion? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  We could potentially, the downside of that would be 
  to have v1 and v2 have the same behavior, but if we remove it it 
  would only work with v2, not v1. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Do we know if there is a plan to deprecate 
  the v1 context? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  That file is forever, it seems like they are 
  committed to keeping that file up indefinitely. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Looking at the PR, it looks like there are 
  three approvals, so are we good to merge? [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pull/736
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Merging now. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
<nis> Hi folks - sorry I'm late!
Orie Steele:  I opened this PR to have a conversation. Adding 
  tests for the core data model is a little sus, but i wanted to 
  show the upgrade from v1 to v2. We can maintain a parallel test 
  suite for v2, but we need group consensus to do that. What ever 
  we do is going to be experimental, and there could be breaking 
  changes. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I'm also going to be working on web token's and 
  involved in that, so i'm not sure how much time I'll have to work 
  on this, but I am committed to making this work well if others 
  are interested in it. But for now this PR is not ready to be 
  merged, it's not passing CI. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I know this would be helpful as I know of 
  some production-adjacent projects that are looking into v2.I see 
  the VC-JWT, will there be overlap? [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  The two primary points for us to consider are 
  credential schema and credential status, which we do use, but 
  don't test anything beyond revocation list 2020. But i would like 
  to see tests for status list 2021 in the core data model, and I 
  would like to see more tests. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  For statuslist 2021, it looks like that's on 
  track, should we start adding tests to it? [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/issues/711
Orie Steele:  I think it looks safe, and I think we should start 
  adding tests and I can add those tests to the core data model. 
  And I think we want end to end test for credential status and 
  credential schema. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I linked an issue, would we want to include 
  the statuslist 2021 context in the context, since people seem to 
  hate it. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  That's relevant to the conversation going on the 
  verifiable credential working group,. We could bundle that unto 
  the traceability context. That can work, it makes our context 
  already fairly large. This would make it a little bit bigger. But 
  this is a little orthogonal to the pull request. [scribe assist 
  by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Is there any downsize to a large context? 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  There always is, every byte counts. But it depends. 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Is there something for signing depending on 
  the size of the credential? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  That's less sensitive for VC-JWT, but more 
  impactful for linked data proofs. There is some performance for 
  the size, but it's mostly around the terms that you use as you 
  expand them. And for terms that are not used, there is a tiny 
  hit, but probably doesn't matter as much as the terms that are 
  being used. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  You can imagine that if you named your terms poorly 
  and used max url size, then processing the document will be more 
  expensive. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I've seen this a little bit on my side and 
  wanted to ask about it. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  This won't matter as much for v2 as we're not doing 
  any n-quads. But if you convert to n-quads then it will be 
  expensive. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  If the delta isn't too heavy, i think the 
  pull request at hand is important. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  I'm happy to do it if folks want to. [scribe assist 
  by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pull/737
<tallted> shouldn't we be using the least-recently-updated sort?  
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  The next PR is fixing undefined terms in 
  traceable presentations. What I wanted to ask was should there be 
  a verifiable credentials array, or am i missing something? 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> for PR i went with order of opening
Orie Steele:  The verifiable credential array, technically it's 
  an optional property. And not having it is used for did 
  authentication. We could say that in our profile we're only doing 
  verifiable presentations. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Nis Jespersen :  Would we define that on the traceable 
  presentation, where as verifiable presentation is supposed to be 
  a cloned definition of the spec. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  We could say that in our version of the profile, we 
  don't expect to do authentication with credentials and we could 
  make that field required. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Benjamin Collins:  I think that might be a fair assertion to 
  make, that our use case is for exchanging documents. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  We don't have any workflows around defining 
  authentication. I'll make an issue to talk about that. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  Yes, that's a separate issue, this pull request is 
  about fixing the undefined terms. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  The next one is about GS1 traceble 
  workflows. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Nis Jespersen :  This is one we've worked on with GS1, these are 
  the main ones. There's more that we're working on, But these are 
  the main ones that define data for a product. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Makes sense. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  Quick note about the Mermaid, it's nice that 
  they're there, but can we provide the source for those diagrams 
  instead of images? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Nis Jespersen :  Yes, there is an issue for that. [scribe assist 
  by Benjamin Collins]
Benjamin Collins: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pull/740
Nis Jespersen :  We narrowed down the packing list, we want to 
  narrow down the schema. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/issues/743
Orie Steele:  I wanted to ask about the snippets folder, do we 
  have any documentation around that? [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Benjamin Collins:  Snippets is for cases when you don't want to 
  pull in a full RDF class, and only use a subset of fields and be 
  able to re-use it. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I filed an issue for it. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Benjamin Collins:  Thanks [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Benjamin Collins: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/pull/741
Nis Jespersen :  For this PR I cleaned up fields that weren't 
  being used like name, description and related link. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Didn't we make the assertion that name and 
  description should alsways be there? [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  I think we said should, not must. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I think you guys said you needed it for some 
  reason. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I can comment on this, v2 defines name and 
  description, so we don't need to define it in our context. And 
  i'll create an issue for that. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  For RDF yes, as there's no reason to re-define 
  those terms. But for a schema perspective, if we want those to be 
  required, we'd need to define that here. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Nis Jespersen :  In terms of business logic, I don't think a lot 
  of documents have name and description. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I'll create an issue to track it, it might 
  be a lower priority issue. But that's aside from this PR. But 
  there are conflicts. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  That's probably from my PR running the regenerate 
  script. If we can merge it outside of the call. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Okay, I'll make a note [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  That's all of the PR's is there anything 
  else we want to bring up, or are we good to move to trace-interop 
  issues? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc

Topic: Trace-Interop Issues

Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/490
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  There is merged PR that addresses. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I know something about this. We have that workflow 
  join monstrosity that uses it. I think we had talked about wanted 
  to run an example of a workflow that would run the instance and 
  definition for oil gas and ecommerce. And that would be something 
  that's just show your intent to import credential. [scribe assist 
  by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I think we should pick this up very soon where we 
  get rid of the huge test that we have, and then we make sure we 
  have a presentation import id and then check for the intent to 
  import id. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/pull/487#discussion_r1087967307
<ben_-_transmute> Orie; This seems like a high priority issue to 
  address.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  It looks like there are two issues, the test 
  suite and the documentation for it. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  I remember that he had a huge text PR where this 
  was mentioned, and my impression was that text is up to 
  interpretation, and we want to have very specific tests. Some of 
  that might be better in the trace-vocab document. We have these 
  two documents, one of is about exchange data models and the other 
  is data models. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  In a lot of cases for nonces, you're going to see 
  them in both documents, but where do you make the normative 
  requirement? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I made notes for the test suite, 
  documentation and anything else? [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Benjamin Collins:  Do we want to get rid of the existing workflow 
  instance join? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  We built the data model to account for it, but as 
  we get closer, it looks like we don't nee dot keep the test suite 
  in there the way that it is. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  For the issue, we want to assign someone to the 
  test side, not the language side. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Any volunteers? [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Nis Jespersen :  I will pick up the test. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Sounds good I will assign you and Mike. Nis 
  for test. Mike for test. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Benjamin Collins: +1
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/538
Orie Steele:  I really wish Mike was here for this one. We've had 
  several conversations around this. I've seen you on the VC-API 
  calls where they discussed it. If we talk about it, it would be 
  you and me talking about it instead of me and Mike talking about 
  it. And I wish we want to have more people on this. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I think he has made a test for this, but not made 
  tests for multiple implementations. I think Mike wants to remove 
  the DID Auth tests, but it seems like it hasn't gotten to the 
  point where it's worth implementing. I asked Digital Bazzar, but 
  they didn't provide an example. They might just say, "read the 
  API spec and do what it's doing" [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  What we could do is ask Digital Bazaar if 
  they tested against Energy Web. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/538
Orie Steele:  In the interest of the original issue, I think we 
  could remove the DID Auth, we know that we're the only 
  implementer of that and we know we want to move to OAuth. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  +1 On my end for removing them. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  It means there is no way to send a message to 
  anyone without security which might be where we want to go in 
  terms of hardening. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Do you know of any implementations that 
  don't interact with OAuth security, i think we can remove it. 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I think that it's a non-trivial amount to remove 
  that. I know Mesur wanted to remove some of it. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Do you know that issue? Maybe we reference 
  that issue and close it here? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I don't know which issue, only comments with Chris 
  and Mike. I think we can comment on this issue and then ping 
  thins. And then Chris can pick it up because he really wanted to 
  do that. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Sound sgood [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Orie Steele:  Interop profile getting thin. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Yes, great! [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/534
Orie Steele:  This seems like a terminology clean up. Mahmoud if 
  you wanted to do a huge terminology review this issue gives you 
  cover to do that. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I assigned this issue to me, I'll pick it 
  up. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/533
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  These are reasonably small changes that 
  should be handled. I'll go ahead and assign it to me. And I'll do 
  it in the same pass as the previous issue. [scribe assist by 
  Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  And I see the next six issues are from the 
  same review. I'll see how much I can do in one PR. [scribe assist 
  by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  If you can't tackle everything, leave a link to the 
  issue in the spec and that will make it painfully clear that 
  someone needs to come back and fix it. [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-interop/issues/529
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  There is one issue that needs discussion. 
  What is out relation to the VC-API? We have said we are a 
  specific profile. Is there anything specific we want to sa? 
  [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  There are two definitions of profile. One is a 
  strict subset, as well as a subset with some added stuff. And I 
  think we're the latter. We're not implemented and then adding 
  more stuff to be nearly our own thing at this point. [scribe 
  assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  As we just committed to remove the DID Auth end 
  points. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Orie Steele:  I think we can simply say that you do not need to 
  reference the VC APi in order to understand what our profile 
  does. [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  We are at time, is there anything else 
  someone wants to bring up? [scribe assist by Benjamin Collins]
<orie> Thank you!
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Okay, thank you! [scribe assist by Benjamin 
  Collins]
<ben_-_transmute> scribe-

Received on Tuesday, 18 April 2023 18:36:45 UTC