- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 13:37:42 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-03-vc-education/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-03-vc-education/audio.ogg ---------------------------------------------------------------- VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-04-03 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Mar/0009.html Topics: 1. Introductions & Reintroductions 2. Announcements & Reminders 3. Open Agenda 4. DCC 5. Ed Design Lab 6. PESC 7. T3 Innovation Network 8. UCI Organizer: Kerri Lemoie Scribe: Our Robot Overlords Present: Kerri Lemoie, Chris Webber, Jeff O - HumanOS, Andy Griebel, Stuart Freeman, John Kuo, Simone Ravaoli, gary matkin, Eric Sembrat, xander - ASU/Pocket, Nis Jespersen , Dmitri Zagidulin, Jim Kelly, Ryan Grant, Jim Goodell, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Chandi Cumaranatunge, David Ward, Naomi, Kayode Ezike, Timg, Brent Shambaugh, Taylor (LEF), Richard Win Putra, Kimberly Linson, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Jonathan Bethune, Marty Reed, Brian, Kaliya Young <kerri_lemoie> Hello all - we'll start in 2 mins <kerri_lemoie> Please check that you are muted. Thanks! Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Kerri Lemoie: Alright everybody thank you very much for joining us today this is Monday April 1st not April Fool's Day edition of the verifiable credentials for Education task force. Kerri Lemoie: Name is Carrie a little boy and I'm your host for today we're having an open Agenda I'm glad you're all here I hope you have some topics that you would like to discuss some questions or anything really hear anything you want to discuss today open Agenda so let's see let's see what happens before we get started though so IP notes and other things so anybody can participate in these calls is an open community so. Kerri Lemoie: One can join its. Kerri Lemoie: Note that if you start doing any work on any of the standards at the community credentials group you should sign and IP our agreement and become a member if you've seen the agenda email that goes out the links to do that or in there but if you have any questions you can contact any of the the co-chairs about it. Kerri Lemoie: I'm all of these calls. Kerri Lemoie: And I'm also we have a robot transcriber you can see who is doing its best to translate what we say and put that in the chat these minutes will get published later along with the audio I've also been told that I we have video recording happening now I'm just calls even though we often don't use it I'm it is happening so soon there should be a YouTube channel that will contain videos from previous meetings which is great because sometimes. Kerri Lemoie: Sometimes people show their slides and we would love to see them all at the same time. Kerri Lemoie: Okay next is at introductions and reintroductions is there anyone who's new to our call today that would like to introduce themselves. Kerri Lemoie: I left one important thing out I think most of the folks here have been on this call before but we use the queuing system to make sure that we aren't talking all over each other so if you want to kill yourself or anything at all just type the letter q and the chat or raise your hand and one of the the control panel down below and itchy and then to remove yourself from the key to take q-. Kerri Lemoie: So I should ask that question again. Kerri Lemoie: Is there anybody who would like to introduce themselves or make any reintroductions or tell us you know what you're working on lately. Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions Kerri Lemoie: I don't see anybody there so how about announcements anybody have any announcements or things that are coming up that you like tell us about typically Eddie events conferences there's quite a few things going on this month anybody have anything that. Kerri Lemoie: Did they tell. Topic: Announcements & Reminders Kerri Lemoie: Will know that if you are interested in what's going on at the ccg announcements are made here at this site. Kerri Lemoie: CCG: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/ Kerri Lemoie: And you can always check in to see what's going on there I believe that we have the internet identity Workshop in a couple of weeks and that is something quite a few people attend also a sugs v is coming up and I think many people in our community attend that as well. Simone Ravaoli: https://www.asugsvsummit.com/sessions/blockchain-credentialing-and-learner-employment-records Kerri Lemoie: Okay my name is on to our main topic so we are doing opened in the today. Topic: Open Agenda Kerri Lemoie: I'm typing this in the chat for us so if you have something you'd like to talk about today or topic you'd like us to discuss questions you have something you're stuck on the head and put yourself in the queue and tell us what calling you and then we can we can talk about that. Kerri Lemoie: Nikki one I could I could get this off today. Topic: DCC <jim_goodell> I’ll be at ASU/GSV. Glad to connect with people from this group there. <naomi> Both myself (Naomi) and Dror (co-founder of Velocity) will be at ASU-GSV if you are interested in meeting in-person! :) Kerri Lemoie: Sometimes I get asked a lot of what we do at the DCC that's where I work when actually I Dimitri s doing is also on this call he works and oftentimes we have other folks like a OT who are on this call that help us to work there too so why don't I just spend a couple minutes maybe telling folks about what it is we do at PCC because I think it might help you understand how we could help you with what you're working on to the D. Kerri Lemoie: PCC is a. Kerri Lemoie: It was founded in 2018 by 12 universities it's being incubated at MIT but it's a Consortium of universities so it has its own Leadership Council and then there we have a small staff including me and some developers Phillips Schmidt and Brandon Martin luxu who do sort of help to move things along. Kerri Lemoie: And what we are. Kerri Lemoie: Behind this year and ongoing is trying to onboard institutions and issuing verifiable credentials so we have been working on pilot deployments and software to support those deployments we are always looking for vendors who would like to work with universities and and you help us get institutions on board so that's our primary focus occasionally we release research papers like we just released the last mile which was. Kerri Lemoie: A report on what employers think about. <bshambaugh> link? or where to look? Kerri Lemoie: The DCC was the group that actually founded VC edu originally came Hamilton Duffy was working with Philips Schmidt and they kicked all of this off so a lot of the the work that we do here really started there too. Kerri Lemoie: Does anybody have any questions about the DCCC. Kerri Lemoie: Colin I see that you are in the queue. Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to give you the floor. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Hi there yeah I'm not a dummy questions I had of myself to the curators you started kicking a DCCC tugs of if you don't mind I'll change topic. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: If other people have questions about DCCC please I can happy to share afterwards. Simone Ravaoli: https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/ Kerri Lemoie: Let me see let me check the key and see if anybody has any questions about this easy thank you for the links to many appreciate that. Kerri Lemoie: All right. Topic: Ed Design Lab Simone Ravaoli: https://news.mit.edu/2022/last-mile-credentials-employment-1103 Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Okay and the last Model the report is really helpful in so many ways for the work that we do so if others on the call have not yet read that or at least given given the table of contents and overview the jump in at a specific point it's 100% worth reviewing we found that exceptionally valuable at the end Design Lab what I what I was going to throw out to the group and curious to connect and okay. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: are you not trying to. Kerri Lemoie: https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Credentials-to-Employment-The-Last-Mile.pdf Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Actually we should probably lock down a time to talk about DC stuff too because what we're putting together right now is sort of an implementation overview for some of the partners were working with in higher ed specifically but then also to signal for employers what this work is looking like in terms of actual implementation and not just use cases and not just you know like Road mapping stuff but actually actually signaling to work happening on campuses. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: places like motlow steak. <taylor_(lef)> LEF will be at ASU+GSV as well. Hope to see some familiar faces at our sessions: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/taykendesign_hands-on-with-ai-and-web3-for-education-activity-7045871657961328640-7wKJ Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: In Texas are in Tennessee with the meta versity work some stuff happening with some of the partners that we work with the Pima Community College in Arizona and Alamo Community College in Texas there are a bunch of examples like this that we are pulling together at Design Lab to share with all of these people and organizations who are sort of On The Fringe on the sidelines looking for examples of implementation and we. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: no it is it's challenging and complex work. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Minting L ER and verifiable credential technology at at the organization level and to integrate across their different Technical Systems but also to align with their content in their skills and skills data and Mastery you know structures or competency structures whatever terminology you want to use so I guess my sort of call for this would be for anyone on this call would that is interested in talking. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: talking about implementation or has. <richard_win_putra> Is DCC a non-profit organization or providing a paid service to the other (Universities)? Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Implementation level with employers you know higher ed institutions or HR kind of like Tech vendors anybody who is in that conversation or building Integrations would love to chat with you and would love to hear any thoughts or topics related to that if anyone on the call has has some so that's what I wanted to offer in. Kerri Lemoie: That's great honey hey I have a question for you and I and we jump the Queue at anybody else I should check their okay it's still in p.m. tell me more tell us more about employer implementation and what that looks like. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah I think that's what we are trying to build up in that last mile the higher sort of this concept of Last Mile the higher is something that we edit Design Lab or starving too I think invest a little more strategy into and trying to pull some you know major employers but into this conversation about what it is they see as obstacles and what it is they need in order to start using some of you know some. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Hiring process in more meaningful ways and I think that we see what higher ed institutions and learning institutions are doing in terms of awarding badges you know crudely put out their report credential engine put out the report of all these badges that have been issued which is great we are trying to help connect not necessarily the tech because you know I design lab isn't a tech vendor per se but working with tech partners and Tech groups who can. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: help to build those Integrations and connect the pieces. <gary_matkin> UCI, one of the charter founders of the DCC has implemented a comprehensive campus wide infrastructure to support the issuance of digital credentials <kerri_lemoie> @Richard - We are opening up membership at DCC and are offering consulting services to our members but I'm happy to provide guidance to non-member universities if you'd like to chat. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Of the puzzle to allow employers to start viewing skills data inside of credentials for individuals that they are hoping to hire so that that's really what we were trying to build sort of a collective of employers with with funding from a couple different groups to identify what those obstacles are that they are experiencing on in their HR systems or you know 80s. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: systems so that we can. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Solve for those issues to get the credentials moving in the data moving. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: does that help. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that's very helpful that sounds great huh. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: And so we'll be at Sherm's conference in Las Vegas in June we're also looking at some other conferences will course be a bad Summit but that's not really like an HR like Tech vendor place and we have a couple others that are on our radar for this year that we're looking at so if anyone wants to chat on that side of things because we know that the higher ed like learning institution we've got a lot of great stuff happening so I think. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: that's why we're trying. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: The other side of the the pipeline. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I think that's great I think we need a lot of focus there now I think we're ready to do that right we have the standards in place we have a lot of issuers on board or at least those who are ready to get on board and sometimes people don't know what what types of credentials to issue because they don't know what would be most helpful to the Learners and understanding more about the employer side of things and also the you know the learner side of things pretty critical. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah yeah and if you give me a great point about the the tech starting to get to that point where you know as idea of self sovereignty in the I thought of individuals actually having some sort of ownership over portable credentials and understanding how to use those right like how does an individual take what's been issued as a credibly badge was a badger badger whatever and bring it with them to you know the application process and that's. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: where we want to see those those. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So what's happening with the trusted learner network is it's very interesting to see how that what kind of progress they've made or things are like the velocity Network and how issuing and you know reviewing is happening for individuals but I think you make a great point is the implementation is starting to come around and the tech is there the tln The Trusted learner network is having their their unconference May 18th I believe in Phoenix so it's a single. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Eagle Day event there may be some stuff on the front and back-end of that that. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Is here may be involved. <kerri_lemoie> @gary matkin - would you be interested n sharing? Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: If you're on this call and it's not something you have on your radar yet I'll throw a link in the chat I know Kate jeeva Nietzsche and her team would would love that to have be there we'd love to see you there too if you want to chat more in person. https://tech.asu.edu/events/2023-tln-unconference Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that's great I will I will be at the edge feeling this year one of the the one I'm working on for a workshop there I'm hoping to do is talking about language in terms of explaining verify the credentials so that we can bring these back into our communities I'm trying to sort of translate the tech into into what will Empower people to actually understand this better so they can start using it which I think will be more helpful for employers as well so yeah please come too. Kerri Lemoie: Taylor and look great on conference. Kerri Lemoie: Didn't Kelly I you see you in the queue hello there. Topic: PESC Jim Kelly: Hello can you hear me okay. Jim Kelly: I have been working with pasch the post-secondary education standards Council on on creating a json-ld transcript standard for it for the higher education transcript and we have been talking about how do we make this either a verifiable credential or contain verifiable credentials and would really we really. Jim Kelly: We need some expert. Jim Kelly: Piece to to make sure that we're going the right direction and I guess I'm looking I'm wondering how do I tap into the knowledge that's available here or you know identify you know folks that might be able to lend a hand for us to get some advice on what direction to take to verify that we're going the right direction that we're at the the. Jim Kelly: Others are creating are. Jim Kelly: Carrier others have any thoughts on that. Kerri Lemoie: I was just thinking about you about passed last week because I was looking up the Jason the DSi do some work he did that paper you all did on the task force on using Json instead of XML and I was curious about where you're headed with it. Jim Kelly: Yeah we're making progress and we're we're at a I guess that an inflection point you know where you know the reason and I was a strong proponent and pushing peskin this direction the reason that we're you're using json-ld and go in the story was really so that we could so this the pests that the transcript the higher. Jim Kelly: Education day. Jim Kelly: Credentials coming from higher education can be can be can play inside the wallet in a meaningful way and in a standard way and you know would certainly like to take the next step you know to make this a real possibility so I I see things coming across the chat but but yeah so anybody has any any. Jim Kelly: Thoughts on you know. Jim Kelly: On how we should go forward with that or what's the best way to approach it I would I would certainly welcome input. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that is great there's a bunch of people in the queue so I'm going to start calling up people they assume some of that is in response to your question I also I'm just raising my hand like that you can't see it but I'm ready to get pretty high to say that I would love to help however possible so that's just stay in touch and talk about it. Kerri Lemoie: You have the floor. <richard_win_putra> I just curious, if in the future DCC will release a new version of VC standard. Who will make sure that the new version is compatible to the latest? <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> creynolds@eddesignlab.org if anyone wants to chat about VC/LER implementation and/or employer + HR Systems side of the "Last Mile" Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Simone e. Simone Ravaoli: https://mycreds.ca/members/ecosystem/stay-connected/ Kerri Lemoie: Dimitri you're in the queue you have the floor sorry. Dmitri Zagidulin: Thanks yeah so I wanted to make a suggestion to the Jim Kelly about. Dmitri Zagidulin: About what he was saying is that I was going to ask Jim would you would you be interested in doing a presentation here to this group just sharing the progress so far or the sort of design intentions for the transcript that you working on and maybe that we can give feedback as a community so the my questions. Jim Kelly: Yeah do you want me to respond directly or wait in line. Kerri Lemoie: Are you finished by now if you and Jim that's fine. Jim Kelly: Um yeah so Phil Barker who's also often on this call but apparently not today has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting he might be a better a better person to do a presentation I would certainly be happy to be involved and I like that idea of bringing ever up brevet bringing everyone up to speed and then you know. Jim Kelly: Allowing everyone to see where. Jim Kelly: And you know start the process that way so I'll talk to Phil we have a meeting later and I may be seeing him soon and we can we can move that that idea forward thank you. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah it's great it's great idea Dimitri. Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Jim Gary I'm going to call in you in one second this year in Cuba I'm going to call in Jim just because he's he put in the cube from a previous topic but T3 and Last Mile Jim hunt you too. Topic: T3 Innovation Network Jim Goodell: Yeah I just wanted to mention that T3 Innovation Network is working on a joint project between the data and Technology standards Network and the job state it Network about and it's directly related to The Last Mile report and in the notion that employers don't see verifiability as enough of an incentive to. Jim Goodell: Use Fair. Jim Goodell: Tools digital credentials and so this skills based hiring and advancement Master use case which was started last year is being extended to look more at the Education and Training side and it's is essentially looking at what are all the other factors beyond the technology itself that prevent optimal use of the technology and. Jim Goodell: Are some of the points of friction that we might consider as a community addressing particularly those non-technology points of friction. Kerri Lemoie: That's awesome Jim you guys focused on any particular industry for this or just pretty broadly I know. Jim Goodell: It's now it's pretty pretty broadly and we're recognizing things like there's kind of a lack of transparency on what credentials mean on one side and what and what the needs are on the employer employment side so so how do we create situations where there's greater transparency that. Jim Goodell: Tires are sending. Jim Goodell: Yes to Education and Training providers about what skills they need and and the education training providers are able to respond in ways that essentially that completing an education or training program can be a predictor of or a an individual or being certified in a competency within from a program can be a productive. Jim Goodell: Addictive performance. Kerri Lemoie: https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2023/02/biden-harris-administration-launches-first-chips-america-funding Kerri Lemoie: I think that's incredible when that will you find Further Along on it we'd like to hear more here to their minds me of I asked about the industry specific because I was reminded of this this link I'm putting in the chat Nix Nix I heard about of when was it I guess like February came out the news about funding a chips Manufacturing in the US and how they're looking. Kerri Lemoie: Being at high schools and technical schools. Kerri Lemoie: To learn these skills for these jobs and how they're providing funding for these things and the end so that's why I asked that question and was wondering about that. Kerri Lemoie: All right Gary I am asked if you could do yourself up because I'm sure folks would be interested in hearing more about the badging or that's imagine of the credentialing system that I have been working on it or if you know about it you see I just wondering if you could tell us more about that. Gary_matkin: Is thank you can you hear me okay. Topic: UCI Gary_matkin: Thank you well I'm very mad kunai retired from UCI last June but I've kept up by interest in digital credentialing and of course you see I was one of the twelve founders of the digital credential digital credential Consortium so we were in at the beginning and we've did a campus-wide infrastructure to support digital credentialing and I just want to tell you that all of you who are looking at implementation. Gary_matkin: Tatian you're going to run into a big problem. Gary_matkin: That big problem is what I call differentiation of credentialing there's three types of credentials and that were interested in the first is participate you can issue a digital credential for participation so many many times for instance Executive Education programs are really participation indicators right they because Executive Education almost never has a learning. Gary_matkin: Achievement okay that's what universities do we get an A or a b or c and of course that's a level of learning achievement but third and the newest one is competency competency plus workplace relevance and I refer again to that last mile paper as being key to this the new thing is the competency and workplace relevance badge okay but the problem is that everybody wants to do all three of those at once probably. Gary_matkin: Red shading those three those three levels is really tough because basically employers really want to see the compass the badge comes the workplace relevance and different colors different shapes of the badges that does not do anything for the differentiation Okay so we've got we've got an inbuilt problem whenever we're trying to implement a digital credentialing system in an institution we've got a. Gary_matkin: we come up with that that problem. Gary_matkin: What I call differentiation so there's various ways around it but it's really something that everybody has to face. Kerri Lemoie: Thank you very that's really important we do something we probably don't talk about enough and I think. Kerri Lemoie: You know it open badges 3.0 we have something different where we have that we didn't have in previous versions of badges which is a Cheeseman type but that's just inside of the data and I don't think that it really it solves that problem it just sort of is like one one step towards solving that problem but not really enough and also for achievement type we are leaning on the what was implemented was the same list that's at credential engine and the CTE. Kerri Lemoie: The list which they say okay this is a you know a diploma or a. Kerri Lemoie: Edge or my credential but they're also pretty broad definitions and don't necessarily say what that means like you know what the implications of that are like what the experiences were was it participation was it assessed it's hard to know they send us the achievement type. Kerri Lemoie: That is very interesting thank you. Kerri Lemoie: Jim you have the floor. Jim Goodell: So just a thought on that there there are those three different categories but the the boundaries between those categories might not be clear cut so. Jim Goodell: So there may be a learning experience that's graded but the grading is not consistent from one instance of a class to another so you have to kind of infer what that means in terms of performance but there may be a richer version of that record that says someone completed a course and got an A. Jim Goodell: And the. Jim Goodell: But here are the competencies that the course taught in assessed and here's a breakdown of the how we assess and and how and what how the person did on these specific kinds of Assessments so adding that richness kind of moves it from one category to the next and so I think there's it's more about evaluating the. Jim Goodell: Richness of the. Jim Goodell: Competency data and whether there's metadata about the assessments and of perform that could possibly used be used to predict performance on a jet. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I agree with this and then I'm going to just throw start another idea about this to you or to anybody else to is on the issuing side we can really think through this is this is how to describe that experience the competencies and how it was assessed even like the evidence I think part of the concern is how do we get scale make it so that machines and flat. Kerri Lemoie: Forms can really understand. Kerri Lemoie: Know what to do at that historically with the past like 10 years or so when we've had these open badges be put up on a website they send them to a person and a person can read it and can't actually make that decision but how do we move this forward at scale so that we can use these on platforms and I'm sure like a I you know there are you know there are definitely some companies working on this in terms of am using Ai and I'm wondering if like that's being taken to consideration in terms of you know. Kerri Lemoie: Know that thinking. Kerri Lemoie: If you want to just riffing out here. Jim Goodell: I don't know if you want me to respond might yeah I guess my I guess my thought is that there has to be a willingness to be more transparent and if we can assume that a I can help us discover some things about how an assertion of the confidence he was assessed yeah. Jim Goodell: And our. Jim Goodell: And training programs willing to be transparent about how things were assessed could those kind of the cultural inertia that and that that it's confidence by proxy rather than getting into the details of how we came up with that assertion. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: I think you were going to call on me. Kerri Lemoie: Colin I used to hear your take on I'm going to I'm going to call on you if you don't mind if I do if your hand was raised or if I was just going to call on you but I'm wondering chroma I think I'm just gonna call any Palin love to hear your thoughts to make some good points. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah I think the I think the weeds of the competency standards and and the details of the skills that are being acquired through the learning process are the that's the work of higher education right this is what I think k12 and higher ed systems have been really good at for the last decade plus our building developmental maps that are well researched and outlined to you know learning outcomes. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: at our age specific and. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Mint specific and that's what they're really good at what we are are trying to help sort of expedite unfortunately I say unfortunately because Expediting you know decades worth of human human development research and then applying That Into You know well-designed you know curriculums and learning experiences and then shoving That Into You know a week-long boot camp that an employer sinks. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: is a priority in order to understand how to. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: The employer system or whatever or similar it's that's really challenging work and I think that's the reality that we're in is that we're trying to bridge a gap between those two worlds with technology that helps to capture all of that really well and I think some of what we're seeing with the experience you projects or the T3 Network and our collaboration with the US chamber Foundation is that there are some tools out there like a i that are helping. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: going to do some of that difficult Crossroad walking work. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: You've got it. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: An individual who may have done an internship with you know some big bank I'll just stick in the finance world for the example that internship they acquired all kinds of skills you know they were probably a college kid learned a lot it had an impact on them and now they want to go work for some big banking partner well how does that banking partner verify that what they learned in that internship is valid and has some level of. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: is he behind it. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: I can help to scan some of the existing skills Registries help to scan some of the existing examples out there and package those in a way that can be issued as a credential to go along with that individual I think that this idea of trust and this idea of like Rich skill descriptors or meaningful skill statements those two are where we see some hang up right where we question the Fidelity of it but. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: but employers don't question the Fidelity of the existing system they just said we don't have. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So I think we're trying to we're trying to do all of those things at the same time which is really really difficult and when you focus on one of just one of them let's say for example you just focus on competency statements and skill statements and Padgett packaging those into verifiable credentials well we've done that but that's not attractive to employers for whatever reason right it might be that the their system isn't built to ingest that kind of those kind of data packets and then make sense. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: of them in meaningful ways so when we start to talk about like a. <jim_goodell> Experience You could be a game changer tipping point for digital credentials Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Mm a standard or some sort of you know Ellie are like verifiable presentation standard something that is can visually represent in a you know a concise viewable dock that also has meaning that's built on all this kind of stuff like I think that's when we start to get to something that is more easily consumable by the human and also by the system so I know that was kind of a wandering. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: sort of explanation but it's multifaceted right the. <gary_matkin> Colin Can I get your email address? Gary Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Are real and depending on who you talk to in the system and on the employer side like what when employer wants versus another employer might be completely different when it's hard to it's hard to do both sides of that last mile problem because the way that they have approached you know learning and competencies to this point are very different and how have a long history behind them. <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> creynolds@eddesignlab.org Kerri Lemoie: Yeah absolutely calling right absolutely I mean for the for the for the most part you know University degrees or some sort or uses proxies but they don't really they aren't really necessarily the proof of the skills or the competencies for the job that you're being hired for right and that's something else. <gary_matkin> Request for email for Colin gmatkin@uci.edu Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah that that's it yeah that and and we've been working with a crow for experience you to get a sample set of anonymised resume our transcripts for the project teams to use to inform their tooling and their systems that they're building with AI so that hopefully we can take you know that that econ 101 course and add some skill descriptions to at that based on what. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: they would have most likely learned and now reflect that back. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Will reflect that back to the university to say hey this is what it looks like these individuals learn through this course can you verify that so we can package it and allow it to go with the individual and I know that the metal Varsity project and some of the Integrations that text are on learning economy are doing on campus there are doing exactly that right there crosswalking some of the competency statements and Frameworks for specific courses on campus into skill statements that can packaged and delivered to individuals. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Al's wallets in this case learn card so that they can then take it and we've seen this. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: You know where we've seen. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: A lot of promising a lot of Promise is in Regional ecosystems and Regional economic markets right so if you hyper focus on the state of Tennessee what they've created with vertical alignment from pre-k to employment is really interesting because you've got this Collective that are all sort of working together because they want the individuals in that region to get good jobs and they want those jobs to be based on the skills that are being acquired through that process. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: I think you bring up. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Great example there's with the transcript how can we make that transcript have more meaning and more value for all of the all of the players and stakeholders in that in that economic Marketplace. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: No it's great. Kerri Lemoie: That's a great example that you brought up about what's going on with Marlo and Tennessee and over the years that seems to happen that local local approach seems to work really well and time and time again the research projects that I've been part of that's also come make some been through hell and I have one other question for you sorry to keep putting you on the spot here but have you been speaking to any of the employers or do you know of any. Kerri Lemoie: Have conversations with employers that them issuing credentials to their employees. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah that's I think we would like to we would like to get more involved directly with employers who are doing that I know there are there are there are three that come to mind right now and I would love to I think groups here are working directly with those employers but we're not we're not at Liberty to share them broadly but what we're seeing is what they want to do in terms of issuing credentials or are all very sort of employer. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: stretches like they. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: People they want to upskill them through their Learning Systems whatever they are two to advance them into you know some mid-level manager or Beyond so they're more focused on their internal systems and creating alignment with their skill statements and their curriculum and their learning routes or learning Pathways but just for their organization and IBM's a great example of an organization that does wonderful upskilling has incredible learning courses for their individuals but those. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: rules in those the credentials that they're being issued. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: And it's translate or transport out of that employer ecosystem very neatly and if that's shifted I would love to hear how that's changed and how people are doing that organizations are thinking about that and that's where we're really trying to push and towards interoperability right is like if you issue your credentials in a verifiable credential format or something that is data compliant with that then that ended when you issue it to their their wallet that they can take with them or allow them to transport it out. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: of your ecosystem into there. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Take with them now we've got opportunity that is more focused on the individual Less on the employer side but I think the employers at least we've been talking to and then others here I think are in conversation with are really focused on building for their employees for their organization specifically which is which is a great step right we do this with higher ed groups as we build those learning Pathways we add micro-credentials along the that pathway so that. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: they become stackable to create a fuller you know learning how come. Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Package if you will that they can then take with them and we'd love to do that same thing with employers so that once those individuals leave whatever that ecosystem is they can move into the broader like Marketplace. Kerri Lemoie: Yep that's great hon thank you very much for sharing all of that and jib to for sharing the work that's going on at E3 I hope both of you come back to keep us keeping us in on this work as it keeps going because I think we are about to run start of something really good here and I know it's not just the start but I think it's making a lot of progress right now Cheryl you have the floor. Ryan Grant: Can you hear me okay I just I guess I moved back and forth between these different groups are having these conversations and I have sort of sorted in my mind that sometimes the conversation becomes a payload conversation which I think we kind of just had about what goes into the envelope and then sometimes it's about the envelope and one of the things that has been really grabbing my attention on the envelope side. Ryan Grant: Is even in the 2.00 be. Ryan Grant: Base to be certified by one attack you don't have to have any metadata really you don't have to have fields that are filled in with very rich data so I feel concerned about that that's just that like a parking lot for that idea and I feel like since that kind of went screwy from what we thought was going to happen that this opportunity now with verifiable credentials. Ryan Grant: As we. <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> +100 Sheryl Ryan Grant: Language and what it means and how to speak to our different constituent groups is going to become so incredibly important and I feel like we have to learn from that what happened with 2.0 so that we don't have people buying these credential issuing platforms and then not really understanding what it means to own your own mode metadata or do value-added actions on your metadata or fill in those fields so I feel like there's the language piece when you talked about how you're going to. Ryan Grant: Be doing that I can remember but it's tln or bad Summit. Ryan Grant: Important and that this next phase if we could as a group really figure that out and look at what exactly is not happening what exists now in implementation and and figure out what we can do so that it is less likely to happen with open badges 3.0 or verifiable credentials. <jim_goodell> Need to drop. Have a good day everyone. Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Cheryl I think so too I think we all talk about verify the credentials and many of us in this group have been having this conversation for a long time and we know the language because you know we've been using it I know that when I first started learning about verifiable credentials it took me a while to really understand what it would really mean and that's a big leap for a lot of people to have to make when they're just trying to like do what's right for their communities not really having to. Kerri Lemoie: Can see is there so thank you yeah I think I think we can do that better too. Kerri Lemoie: All right everybody we are at about ten minutes to the hour so I just want to give anybody else an opportunity to put themselves in the queue if they have anything they would like to talk about or anything they want to talk about next time we try to hold these open agendas once a month but also if you are interested in presenting on a call let us know we'd love to have you you could have a whole call to talk about your topic and Cleo I see you are in the queue to want you to take the floor. Kerri Lemoie: For us. Kaliya Young: Hi folks I sent a note out last night I don't know if it actually went through because it's sort of sent me a like a scolding email back forwarded it to you carry but I was sharing about the event that were working on with Partners in Zurich the digital identity unconference Europe happening in June and I'm hoping that folks. Kaliya Young: Those who are on. Kaliya Young: The who are either based in Europe or know folks who are you're in Europe that would benefit from attending can spread the word and share about the event coming up so really were taking the format that we use that iiw and bringing it to to Europe. Kaliya Young: Well did it down. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that was awesome that's awesome I wish I could attend not gonna be able to make it but I wish I could it sounds amazing clear I did get your message by the way so check your inbox and I hope you figure that out well by your announcement didn't make it. Kaliya Young: Or did it just send me a scolding email that's what I don't understand. Kerri Lemoie: I don't think it made this made it to this list at all. Kaliya Young: Hey I'll try I'll resend it to this list and. Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I tried again yeah I'm even a typos I don't know. Kerri Lemoie: Anyway I didn't see it in the archive so it didn't or into the queue for me to approve which I shouldn't have to do anyway I love you Shield to send stuff on the mailing list do you have a look and then I get back to me we'll figure it out. Kerri Lemoie: All right everybody. <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> Exciting! <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> Thanks all Kerri Lemoie: Next week we have ASU TLN the project not the unconference but the initiative presenting and telling us like saying you know what they've been working on in the progress they've made in the past year so please join us for that because I think you're going to find that to be a very interesting approach to to verifiable credentials. Kerri Lemoie: Okay but that I am going to close the call I hope you all have a wonderful week and talk to you all soon thank you.
Received on Friday, 7 April 2023 13:37:42 UTC