Re: Apple and Google's Mobile Document Request API

Standards as fundamental as DID and VC cannot solve societal problems
unless they're part of a broader effort to support digital public goods:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/can-open-source-technologies-support-open-societies/


Adrian

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:59 PM Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 2:10 PM Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> > For instance, it doesn’t seem like the Web Payments work has taken the
> world by storm.  Is that due to flaws in the playbook or flaws in the
> underlying approach (or both)?  Or is my perception off, and it’s wildly
> successful?
>
> As you said, Web Payments is not wildly successful today. The Payment
> Request API and Payment Handler API have yet to reach REC status after
> 7 years of Working Group activity -- Microsoft, Samsung, Mozilla, have
> all decided to not implement it so far.
>
> We should keep in mind that failing to create a standard is of benefit
> to the OS/browser platforms. Directing people through the Google Pay
> and Apple Pay Apps because a wallet selection mechanism doesn't exist
> in the browser constrains choice. It enables them to charge more basis
> points (a percentage of revenue) on each transaction through their
> native apps. Apple Wallet/Pay has a large market share for financial
> transactions at the point of sale, again, there isn't much incentive
> to open that payment channel up (proprietary Apple Pay / Google Pay at
> the point of sale) to competition.
>
> > Can you also describe other times this playbook has been employed and
> the outcomes?
>
> Variations of this playbook was/is (arguably) employed for Adobe Flash
> / SVG, h.264/VP8, Encrypted Media Extensions, WebRTC, Web Payments,
> FLOC, AMP, FedCM, mDL/mdoc/VCs... across W3C, IETF, ISO, etc. This is
> not something that's isolated to W3C, in fact, spreading the
> initiative between multiple standards bodies increases the chances of
> its success (a failure to standardize). For example, ISO mDL + W3C
> Mobile Document Request API almost ensures that most people will not
> be able to engage at ISO in the same way they can engage at W3C.
>
> > One of the odd things to me about the proposed approach is that it’s
> mDoc specific – rather than being credential-format independent.  Do we
> have any insights into why that is?
>
> My experience has been that the typical argument used by the browser
> vendors is: "Let's start small and focused, and generalize once we
> have version 1.0 done." That, of course, rarely happens because
> version 1.0 falters -- 'cause it's a trap. What's really needed, and
> what CHAPI does, is create an arbitrary data format and protocol
> agnostic pipe between two systems (web-to-web, app-to-web,
> web-to-app). That is the desired end-state, IMHO, but the browser
> vendors seem loath to create a group with such a broad remit.
>
> Web Payments -- "This is about registering payment instruments and
> using those to pay. We don't deal with identity, or credentials, or
> loyalty cards, or coupons, or anything else. This WG is just about
> payment. Maybe we'll generalize this data sharing interface if we're
> successful."
>
> FedCM -- "This work is about identity federation and login, we are
> focused on removing 3rd party cookies as used for login. We don't deal
> with credentials, or payments, or arbitrary data movement between
> websites.  Maybe we'll generalize this data sharing interface if we're
> successful."
>
> Mobile Document Request API -- "This work is about requesting and
> presenting mDLs and, eventually, mdocs. We don't deal with any other
> data format.  Maybe we'll generalize this data sharing interface if
> we're successful."
>
> ... and so on. It's all a bit misguided. Yes, you want to focus on
> critical use cases, but not to the detriment of a more generalized
> solution. Unfortunately, we have multiple examples (above) of there
> being a focus on point solutions rather than generalized solutions.
> It's difficult to determine if this is being done on purpose, or by
> accident. Given that many of the people advising this work have been
> around at these large companies for 10-20 years, it's hard to believe
> that this is all an accident that it keeps happening. :)
>
> -- manu
>
> --
> Manu Sporny - https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/
> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> News: Digital Bazaar Announces New Case Studies (2021)
> https://www.digitalbazaar.com/
>
>