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[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-06-13

From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 21:48:35 +0000
Message-ID: <E1o0rvD-0006Wt-CY@mimas.w3.org>
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2022-06-13

  1. IP Note
  2. Call Notes
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements & Reminders
  5. JFF VC-EDU Recap
  Kerri Lemoie
  Our Robot Overlords
  Kerri Lemoie, Morgan Lemmer-Webber, Stuart Freeman, Evan Lally (, 
  JeffO Real-IT, Aditya - Entrustient, Sharon Leu, Oliver Terbu, 
  Kayode Ezike, Marty Reed, Mallory Dwinal-Palisch, Jim Kelly, 
  Mahesh Balan - pocketcred.com, David Ward, John Kuo, Manu Sporny, 
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Phil L (P1), Nate Otto, Phil Barker, Phil Long, 
  Taylor (LEF), Andy Griebel, David Chadwick, Tim, Colin (LEF), 
  Brian, Tim Dutta - Entrustient, Jim Goodell

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everyone welcome to the June thirteenth 
  verifiable credentials for Education task force called.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie:  Going to go through some boilerplate messaging 
  like we usually do at the beginning and then we'll get going with 
  our agenda that is the plugfest the jjf vc-edu plugfest recap 
  first time IP note anyone can participate in these calls however 
  also to give contributors to any ccg work items must be members 
  of the ccg with full IP our agreement cyant you can do this by 
Kerri Lemoie:   It's creating an account.
<kerri_lemoie> create account: 
Kerri Lemoie:  Not the link in the chat so created account at W3C 
Kerri Lemoie:  And then you can create a you can join the ccg 
  account during the ccg using this account.
<kerri_lemoie> join the ccg: 

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie:  And please note that these meetings are recorded 
  we have a robot transcriber and we also do an audio recording and 
  a video recording most times it should be a video recording for 
  this call so if you would like to participate in the chat then 
  please like you yourself we use that that system so if you are 
  looking to ask a question or join.
Kerri Lemoie:   Nor have.
Kerri Lemoie:  The conversation or asked us to call on you please 
  use a queue request to add yourself to the queue and then it 
  needs q- to remove yourself from the queue.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay before we get started what we always like to 
  do is see if there's anybody new to this call who would like to 
  introduce themselves and if there is someone new to the coffee 
  could you yourself we would love to have to hear from you.
Kerri Lemoie:   Is there anyone.
Kerri Lemoie:  Now so while we're waiting see you folks are going 
  to kill themselves keep in mind that the robot transcriber 
  sometimes actually pretty often misunderstands us so if you see 
  something in the chat that you think should be fixed you can do 
  that you can help us out with the minutes by typing the following 
  and the chat to fix your printer as /aa.
Kerri Lemoie:   Wrong Turn.
Kerri Lemoie:  The correct term.
<kerri_lemoie> to fix: s/wrong/correct
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm ml Ian web underscore can you are in the queue 
  you have the floor.
Morgan_Lemmer-Webber: Hi hi this is my first time joining this 
  meeting I'm Morgan Lumber Weber and I am working with digital 
  bizarre doing Communications so I am mostly observing at this 
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Morgan good to have you here.
Kerri Lemoie:  He was a or anybody who wants to reintroductions 
  or updates I work that you've been doing that you'd like to tell 
  us about.
Kerri Lemoie:  It so you can add yourself to the cube.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Manu and Stuart okay next does anybody 
  have any announcements or reminders.

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
Kerri Lemoie:  Anything that is going on and they want to let 
  folks know about I'm one thing we normally tell folks about is if 
  you want to know about other meetings going on in the ccg 
  community you can go to this link Manu you have the floor.
Phil Long: :+1:
Manu Sporny:  Hey yeah so I'm trying to find a link I should have 
  found this before we see opal ug Charter so really great news is 
  that the verifiable credentials 20 working group past the the 
  charter vote passed with with flying colors like really really 
  strong support for verify credentials Ali 3C.
Manu Sporny:   There was.
Manu Sporny: https://github.com/w3c/vc-wg-charter/pull/111
Manu Sporny:  One formal objection but that was addressed with a 
  suggestion well that was that was I'll probably put in the pull 
  request here so this is this is all public information I'm 
  sharing you know Mozilla had objected to the group mainly because 
  we didn't mandate testing as an exit criteria for the work that 
  we were doing.
Manu Sporny:   Doing week.
Manu Sporny:  It did that's usually left up to the working groups 
  but Mozilla wanted a stronger statement around testing mic Pro 
  Rock are ccg chair put some language in there that addressed 
  Mozilla has concerns right now the plane seems to be to use some 
  of the ccg test Suites that we've been experimenting with over 
  the past couple of months to support the exit right.
Manu Sporny:   Area for the.
Manu Sporny:  Credentials to a working group so this is great 
  news it means that work is going to start soon it is the charter 
  has basically gone out to be approved by the only threesome 
  management which is usually just an administrative thing we 
  expect to start meeting the for the w3c technical plenary meeting 
  which happens in September so if you are w3c member actually even 
  if you're a community group participant you can go to that 
Manu Sporny:   In participating.
Manu Sporny:  In meetings there that's happening in Vancouver 
  this year so it's a hybrid meaning it's remote attendance and and 
  in-person attendance in September so that's great news is 
  verifiable credentials to a working group past a hurdle we were 
  really concerned about there being formal objections but there 
  was only one and that's been addressed in the group's moving 
  forward the next Charter that is of relevance in the rdf data 
Manu Sporny:   Ization and hashing working group that's the thing 
  that we need to like.
Manu Sporny:  Verifiable credentials so that they can be signed 
  the vote for that closes today there no oral objection so far so 
  unless something comes in at the last second we hope that that 
  charred to pass as well so that's good I mean that means that you 
  know are ccg pipeline for creating working groups and moving work 
  that we have been working in this ECG and elsewhere into Global 
  standards bodies you know is working and it's healthy like 
  there's a tremendous amount of.
Manu Sporny:   Of support for it based on the votes that we.
Manu Sporny:  Um so yeah that's it there's just good news you 
  know across the board.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's great news thank you so much for telling us 
  about it is there a way to just sort of briefly let us know maybe 
  what you see coming forward as part of the 2.0.
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/
Manu Sporny:  Yeah so the charter we had to be very explicit 
  about you know everything we were going to work on in the charter 
  largely let's see I'll put the charter in here so there's a link 
  to the Charter they're sharing the group this time is Brent 
  sundel from a vast in Christina yasuda from Microsoft of on 
  Herman is our staff contact and has been for over a decade now I 
  think a lot of the work.
Manu Sporny:   Is going to focus on.
Manu Sporny:  Krypto Switzer the actual digital signature stuff 
  the proofs so there's a lot of work around you know the digital 
  signatures that go into a verifiable credential there's also an 
  opening to refine the data model and work on things like like 
  display characteristics of a credential description so we can we 
  can update the core model as well depending on.
Manu Sporny:   On needs.
Manu Sporny:  Verifiable credentials verifiable presentations 
  requests for verifiable credentials and verifiable presentations 
  so data models around requesting credentials kind of issuing 
  credentials things of that nature there was a pretty strong line 
  drawn in the standby a couple of w3c members so that we would not 
  be able to work on protocols normatively but we were able to get 
  in that we were definitely going to work.
Manu Sporny:   Work on.
Manu Sporny:  Protocols in the non-normative way provide guidance 
  around you know protocol usage and the VC data model and the 
  doors open for enhancing verifiable credential interoperability 
  by working on extension vocabularies like mobile driver's license 
  like maybe open badges citizenship vocabulary for.
Manu Sporny:   Like you know permanent resident card.
Manu Sporny:  Ability stuff so we are able to also work on 
  extension vocabularies in that working group the lifetime of the 
  working groups two years from from its start that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's great thank you honey you did you use 
<phil_t3> Perhaps for those unfamiliar with the W3C process and 
  spec dev a short description of normative vs. non-normative work 
  might be helpful.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yes thanks quick question for Manu, do you 
  foresee any of the work being incubated in the VC API task force 
  to make it into the VC working group as a normative note.
Manu Sporny:  We can't do it as a normative note oh sorry 
  non-normative yes absolutely that was the that was the goal I 
  mean there are a number of us that are really pushing hard for 
  that we wanted it as a normative thing but like I said there was 
  one one company particularly that pushback really strongly 
  against that and so there's a question about how we're going to 
  do it right I mean because the VC API stuff is being incubated in 
  ccg and there's a question of.
Manu Sporny:   Like okay.
Manu Sporny:  E2 working group going to snapshot that work every 
  now and then are they going to actually move it into the working 
  group and so that will become like a working group work item and 
  if that happens how do the ccg folks participate so that's still 
  up for debate but I think yes there are number of us that are 
  going to push very hard for publishing that as normative note in 
  the reason we're doing that is to set up the next re chartering.
Manu Sporny:   To work on protocols so you know issuance.
Manu Sporny:  Calls verification protocols presentation protocols 
  that kind of thing so all this stuff that we're doing in like jmf 
  and incubating and all that kind of stuff the hope is that we're 
  going to learn from all the plug fests that's going to influence 
  the VC API in any other protocol work and then that is going to 
  become normative work after this next iteration of the working 
  group did that did that address your question.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It did that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay thank you very much for that update.
Kerri Lemoie: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
Kerri Lemoie:  On the only other Urban down that I have the queue 
  is empty is it just a reminder to sign up for the VC edu email 
  list I'm going to put that link here in the chat on this page 
  it's actually archives page and there is a link towards like the 
  top middle to subscribe to this list which will just be a mail to 
  link where you can join the list we're having more and more 
  discussions are especially about the plugfest the upcoming over 
  to plugfest.
Kerri Lemoie:   So it'd be great if you aren't on there to join.
Kerri Lemoie:  You can participate in this conversation.
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see anybody else in the queue here so why 
  don't we get started with our agenda I'm going to share my slides 
  and bear with me while I do this.

Topic: JFF VC-EDU Recap

Kerri Lemoie:  I see before I share the slides I'm going to give 
  you a link to the slides.
Kerri Lemoie:  So that you have them in case you lose me for some 
  sort you will have these sites.
Kerri Lemoie: Slides: 
Kerri Lemoie:  So these are the slides where we're going to be 
  discussing sort of doing a recap of what happened at the jff vcsu 
  plugfest and what our next steps are going to be let me share 
  that screen now.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm trying to do this well I want to run here.
Kerri Lemoie:  Anybody seen my / right side right now.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Sure sure give me a sec.
Kerri Lemoie:  Demetria you do me a favor if you can share them 
  because I think you have the like on those and try thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  A multimeter he's doing that I can tell you a 
  little bit of what happened to we we held the plugfest last 
  Monday in New Orleans prior to the jff horizons conference and on 
  the call today are folks who participated I think you Dimitri 
  yeah he's already at the top would be great on the call today are 
  some of the participants and also share and Lou Who has really 
  been leading this effort towards interoperability and.
Kerri Lemoie:  Education and then I Dimitri.
Kerri Lemoie:  And I and and Simone a as part of a VC Educators 
  help coordinate this and it also want to give a shout-out to feel 
  along who I took great notes all day for us okay I put hello 
  world on there because this is essentially what this was you can 
  move there that's fine and Marty really firm and I really just 
  sort of name that for us and it made a lot of sense to us so the 
  whole point of this plugfest.
Kerri Lemoie:   Fast was to display an open badge.
Kerri Lemoie:  In a verifiable credential wallet and this is part 
  of the team this is the team that really sort of worked on this 
  led by Sharon and I was some definitely a lot of support from 
  Joan Lee and then I came Hamilton Duffy and and the co-chairs 
  okay could you move to the next slide please to meet you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you I stole this description of the plugfest 
  from Sharon's introduction email so Sharon I'm going to let you 
  take it from here but I'll read it out loud and then you can see 
  if there's anything else to add I modified it a little bit but 
  the point of the jff and the vcsu plugfest courage development of 
  a large and active Market Place of learning and employment 
  records for the technology tools and infrastructure and for the 
  community to demonstrate true multi-vendor multi-platform.
Kerri Lemoie:   All right there's robot.
Kerri Lemoie:  Is a rating over me interoperability in alignment 
  with the VC did an edgy standards those are the standards that 
  we've been focused on we didn't really focus on protocols and 
  really not too much with dids or signatures but really just 
  display of the open badges 3.0 standard-a Sharon do you have 
  anything to add to that in terms of describing with the plugfests 
Sharon Leu:  This is a good description I guess the only thing 
  that I would add is that I think that this is not for jff this is 
  not just a technical exercise our actual any goal is that there 
  is interoperability of credentials for people so we have a theory 
  of change around lifelong learning credential lifelong learning 
  and in order to make that a reality for people we want Learners 
  and workers to be able to.
Sharon Leu:   Collect a large number of the.
Sharon Leu:  Shows that they've earned regardless of where those 
  credentials were I guess we're issued so whether formal 
  institutions in formal education in the workplace the military 
  community service any credential that attest to a person's 
  abilities and skills we want them to be able to curate them 
  themselves and create prison patients to pursue the opportunities 
  so that is our ultimate goal for why we are pursuing this in a 
  plug fast kind of way.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks Sharon I'm doing Jan the next slide I see I 
  just put a little bit about jmf in which I think Sharon mostly 
  described just said sure I do anything else you want to add about 
  jmf overall.
Sharon Leu:  I guess the only one thing I'll add not about jmf 
  necessarily is that we jmf is working with support from the 
  Walmart Foundation as well as with our partners at the national 
  Governors Association and a large number of organizations that 
  are part of the national LER advisory so I'll just say that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you and two from the VC Edge you 
  plugfest objectives these are the ones that I listed but Dimitri 
  feel free to jump in if you have others but you know part of our 
  Charter is really to align education training and achievement 
  data standards with the verifiable credentials model also to 
  increase understanding about verifiable criminals and education 
  training really a provide a place for us to collaborate and.
Kerri Lemoie:   Work together towards this and then.
Kerri Lemoie:  If that's pouring then we want to recognize the 
  vendors and the organizations who are working towards 
  interoperability we really appreciate the work that you do we 
  know that it's good for your your software and your projects but 
  also it's really good for the broader Community to meet you do 
  you have any other objectives that you would add to this.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  No I think that's I think those were our main 
  ones thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you next slide.
Kerri Lemoie:  Kazuki's were the requirements for this breakfast 
  we ask that the wallets display a VC in the version of an open 
  badge 3.0 that we provided them open badges is not a is not been 
  open Supernova has not been released yet but we set up a pilot 
  version of this to be used specifically for this plugfest so we 
  asked them to display the badge they're their wallet to display a 
  badge image.
Kerri Lemoie:  Which by the way is not actually.
Kerri Lemoie:  You point out but we thought would be important to 
  do that anyway as part of this and brought up really good 
  questions also displayed issuer name the achievement name the 
  achievement description and achievement criteria then optionally 
  we said you could also be great if you want to display other 
  fields such as it's it's your logo or other open badges terms and 
  then as a stretch goal we said hey if you can also demonstrate 
  that you are verifying that this batch data that would be great 
  we didn't require.
Kerri Lemoie:   Okay next.
Kerri Lemoie:  This is our list of participants we have a lot of 
  participants who is great we weren't sure who participate in it 
  when did a really good job we had some people in person and we 
  had others participating virtually in a very different time zones 
  which we appreciate and I we had everyone create a short video 
  but three minutes long that demonstrated what they did for the 
  plugfest and how they are met these requirements and what I'd 
  like to do is show you.
Kerri Lemoie:   Three of those videos.
Kerri Lemoie:  Because they're very short and I think you might 
  find it interesting we do have a list of all of the videos 
  available but I thought we do want to show them today just three 
  of them and I do meet you because you're controlling the sharing 
  I'm just going to give you want to put links in the chat you mind 
  playing them.
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mavfF2XK7U
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Not at all go ahead go ahead.
Kerri Lemoie:  Since I can't share my screen thank you alright 
  the first one is matter it's video.
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't hear any audio do you hear audio.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep one sec I'm going to try it out right now.
Manu Sporny:  Sorry no audio but I know in this is a dangerous 
  thing you can share video in jitsi in provide the direct YouTube 
  link and it will play for everyone I think but I've never used 
  the feature so I have no idea.
Kerri Lemoie:  You try it okay go for it Brave New World.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep yep yep.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Eddie how's this.
Kerri Lemoie:  Video sharing and I thought you left.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay one second I think it says that people 
  need to consent to it give me just a second you stop screen 
  sharing before sharing audio.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  In to restart screen sharing and click screen 
  share audio share okay got so one second.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Haha okay one moment.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay here we go.
Kerri Lemoie:  I would get here but we can't see it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah all good.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  This video is matter it's a mission for the 
  JFK drop podcast one for completeness we're going to show an 
  example as shown by one more try this is this is about you so the 
  delay this is I'm really curious to learn how to do this for 
  future as well so okay one second so video show okay yep I think 
  I see it I think I see it.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Chrome tabs.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yep thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Prince Jenny of day of its submission for the 
  japheth and drop plugfest one for completeness we're going to 
  show an example Assurance journey of the open badge achievement 
  credential using matters of IDC credential provider.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  This flow will result in the credential being 
  stored and be visible and the matter wallet will start the 
  process by using the wallet to scan a QR code that contains the 
  discovery URL for a.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Offer the offer then gets displayed for the 
  holder to review and decide whether to proceed what climbing the 
  credential into their wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wallet initiates an oid see flow through an 
  external web view that allows the holder to authenticate 
  themselves against the jmf identity provider the claims from the 
  oid see token are mapped into a verifiable credential and bound 
  to the holder's DID.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Badge achievement credential is then stored in 
  the holders wallet and made available for viewing and 
  presentation the matter wallet renders the display of the 
  credential by first checking if the credential type stated in the 
  credential itself has a corresponding layout that can be utilized 
  when displaying the credential and the wallet itself in this case 
  the credential type is the open badge credential which does have 
  a pre-existing overlay and is used to display the credential that 
  we can see here let's take a quick look at some of the 
Dmitri Zagidulin:   National elements.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Out of the credential first you'll notice a 
  green verified label at the top of the credential this indicates 
  to the holder that the credential has been verified by the wallet 
  and is confirmed as valid meaning it hasn't been tampered with or 
  revoked we see at the bottom of the credential display that the 
  issuer is name and web domain also have a green techniques to 
  them this signals that the issuer's did document with 
  successfully resolved as valid and in this case because we've 
  used added web is correctly bound to the mentioned equipped.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Oh mein lastly let's take a look at the Json 
  Source behind the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  If we start from the top we see the credential 
  type we've mentioned before is included in the credential type 
  array inside the issuer block the issuer of this credential is 
  represented by a dead web and just under that as the name of the 
  credential itself which is what gets displayed and as the main 
  heading of the credential on the wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   The credentialed.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Each of the claims that are being displayed by 
  the wallet including the image which has been resolved from the 
  URI as well as the claims the subject block also contains The 
  Binding of the credential to the wallet through the hold is dead 
  in this case I did key as used to represent the holder this 
  credential is revocable so references Aid revocation list and a 
  specific index on that list which is carried through the 
  credential and checked by the wallet to display the credential 
  status as part of the UI.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Finally the bottom section of the raw 
  credential is the proof.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Case has been created over the json-ld 
  credential using the Ed 255 1920 18s cryptographic sweet thanks 
  for watching this walkthrough of matter submission for phase one 
  of the jff interop plugfest.
<phil_t3> Very nice.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks to retreat and just want to move on and 
  show the next two.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Hello everyone this is Guillermo listen though 
  from territory mmm first we are going to give you a brief 
  introduction about our product and about the company and then we 
  will show you the demo for the plugfest so as territorian we 
  believe that learning happens everywhere in a classroom outside 
  the classroom and we create a full comprehensive learner record 
  for each student in which we map learning experiences to the 
  skills and competencies.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Senses that there are mastering.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We strongly believe that we need to help 
  students to move from education to work so we don't only create a 
  record but we really create a full ecosystem in which we help 
  students navigate to Career Pathways we tell them their 
  probabilities of success towards getting a certain job earning 
  certain amount of money we tell them which are there gaps and 
  give them recommendations of courses so that they can improve 
  their profiles and we connect them directly to jobs so we are all 
  about the creating.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Workforce connectivity ecosystem so we 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  See sides and we create a full profile of 
  what's required we map that back to the job market requirement we 
  map that back to the learning experiences and finally create a 
  full profile of the student that we store in the diva wallet 
  which use that data to compare that to the requirements of 
  employers we find gaps and then we will back and give a students 
  recommendations of learning experiences to fill all those gaps 
  and the same time we connect them directly to possible jobs that 
  they can apply.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   So this is basically creating a full work 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  System now we will show you that them.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So you're seeing our smart wallet as we 
  getting into in our smart wallet the students can navigate to 
  multiple career Pathways they consider opportunity fit we map all 
  their credentials and micro certifications to the job market 
  requirements they can see their progress towards getting the jobs 
  that they want the multiple career Pathways they can pursue and 
  they can also Explore Learning experiences and how that will 
  improve their profiles towards getting the jobs that they want.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Now we will show you that the little wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Curious where we store basically all the 
  credentials of the student as you can see here we have the jff 
  badges for the plugfest up in Bacchus troponin 0.0 so here we can 
  see one of them it's already very fine we can see the achievement 
  the name the description the criteria type the criteria narrative 
  that image and the issue so we have all the data within our 
  platform now we will show you.
<kerri_lemoie> Example badges provided here: 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The credential or a batch here you can upload 
  files URL or the Jason we will chosen the Json so that you can 
  see that we are using what the FF provided we click save it tells 
  us is a success now we can see the badge is not verified yet so 
  as we click on the badge then we can verify it we use all the 
  process with the key and the daad to Cho this verification as you 
  can see nah.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   We can see all the data related to.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And even the logo of jmf as an issue so this 
  is basically our demo thank you very much for your time today.
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-36cpmQflY
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Tim and pasting a link to the various video 
  the link on the slide goes to the site.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Digital Bazaar is pleased to contribute to the 
  VC edu interoperability plugfest sponsored by jobs for the future 
  our mission is to help build a web we can trust our software 
  enables privacy-preserving digital identity for individuals and 
  organizations we have been leaders in the web standards Community 
  for over 15 years and have worked to encourage the adoption of 
  decentralized identity standards by government and Industry 
Dmitri Zagidulin:   This plugfest is part of our commitment to 
  true in.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Operability attracting customers by providing 
  software solutions that work within the larger ecosystem not 
  trying to lock those customers into proprietary Solutions the 
  digital bizarre team has authored or edited many w3c standards 
  track documents we'd like to highlight verifiable credentials 
  decentralized identifiers and web KMS as Open Standards that 
  directly support the digital wallet shown in this video thank you 
  to the credentials community group for advancing.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   In this important.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Our product is the various wallet and 
  interoperable digital wallet that can manage privacy preserving 
  identity and verifiable credentials for a wide range of daily 
  activities you can find more information at varus dot IO various 
  wallet can support age verification government identity Finance 
  supply chain and education applications including the verifiable 
  job skills use cases pioneered by jmf and the open badge 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Interoperability means being able to.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Display verify and present a digital 
  credential that communicates these different statements issued by 
  anyone including individuals or organizations using competing 
  products in this plugfest you'll see a demonstration of the 
  various wallet display an open badge version 3 verifiable 
  credential that communicates a job skill or achievement including 
  multiple data elements specified in the open badge standard the 
  user opens her verus wallet mobile app and authenticates.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Your digital wallet in the cloud the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Mo issuer endpoint which issues a mock open 
  badge version 3 verifiable credential the user inspects the 
  credential and stores it in her digital wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The open batch credential is now available in 
  the wallet the user presses show details to inspect the 
  credential it displays an issuer name and logo and achievement 
  name description and criteria and a badge image in this case the 
  example credential states that Jane Doe's wallet has passed the 
  jff plugfest interoperability criteria congratulations.
Kerri Lemoie:  I really like how that one ends to meet you do you 
  mind showing at the slides again thank you very much for doing 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Of course not.
Kerri Lemoie: Videos: 
Kerri Lemoie:  Those are just three of the amazing videos we 
  there are so many more so I'm going to put a link because you 
  didn't grab the slides uses a link to all of the videos which I 
  highly suggest take a few minutes to check them all they're all 
  very short and you will learn about all of the work going on in 
  our community and I think that's great the next slide please so 
  I'd like to if I'm while I just go through these what I think.
Kerri Lemoie:  Some of our achievements I was wondering if some 
Kerri Lemoie:  Riders make you themselves up just for a few 
  questions I'm from us or also from anybody who's here to these 
  are things that I thought really that we achieve some of the 
  things so one we introduced VC wallet vendors to ensure Education 
  data centers they were familiar with them they had really heard 
  about them and there they were displaying them and but for the 
  most part let us know that it wasn't so hard to do that which was 
  great to hear and then we also introduce education Workforce 
  platforms to verify.
Kerri Lemoie:   The credentials so that was a great exchange also 
  we are.
Kerri Lemoie:  Lessons about displaying education credentials and 
  that we can tackle as part of the task force that we see AG task 
  force we learned a lot about what onboarding resources are needed 
  and we need a lot of ongoing resources and this the demos 
  prompted questions about policy and timing we had a lot of folks 
  who are watching the demos who are not technical who are you know 
  determining policy and thinking about policy as some excellent 
  questions and I don't know if I mentioned this before.
Kerri Lemoie:   Or can't recall a bit.
Kerri Lemoie:  You this was about a five hour long before our 
  long like you know event and we had over I won't play about fifty 
  four people on Zoom who stayed on for almost the whole time and 
  which was really a really great and then also this I thought this 
  was great as somebody who's been working and open badges for a 
  long time this was the first time that open badges 3.0 were sort 
  of issued but mostly displayed and and I just sort of want to 
  reflect that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Here you go.
<manu_sporny> Woo hoo! Huge strides in just 12 months!
Kerri Lemoie:  That this task force decided to pursue doing this 
  work of aligning education standards directly with the VC model 
  prior to this we were talking about cell ER rapper model and this 
  decision initiated two charters that IMS Global which is now 
  wanted to Echo work I think for both open Badges and the sealer 
  and also the open badges nclr decided to align their models to 
  describe achievements and then on top of that we also.
Kerri Lemoie:   Achieved having additional alignment with.
Kerri Lemoie:  For the achievement type property so it's like 
  three standards that were aligned as part of this work and even 
  though the slugfest was a little bit early it's still you know 
  was really sort of a great achievement and great to see this 
  happen both open Badges and the CLR should be released as a 
  candidate released by the end of this month so me for me 
  personally anyway I just want to say this is a huge step forward 
  and I want to thank open badges in the CLR working group members 
  and of course this community for making.
Kerri Lemoie:   All of that happen.
Kerri Lemoie:   Let me see if we have anybody in.
<phil_t3> IMSGLOGAL now "1edtech.org"
Kerri Lemoie:  Evan do you have the floor.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Oh sure I thought the key was for 
  questions but I can provide some comments about our plugfest 
  experience if you'd like.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Sure why don't you do that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Why do you have a question for you to mostly the 
  what did you think this plugfest achieved and what did what do 
  you think you achieved as part of this.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Oh that's a great question that's 
  going to be my comment to so good timely question you know the 
  plugfest was a good first step I think you mentioned that it was 
  kind of a Hello World displaying the credential you know is a 
  nice first step toward interoperability but I think the main 
  takeaway for us was how it was fairly straightforward to do 
  because of the solid alignment with the standards that you 
  mentioned on this slide so the fact that a open badge version 3 
  has a line with.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): The other day.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Standards means that it's you know 
  fairly straightforward to integrate this with the wallet that 
  supports other types of credentials unrelated to skills or 
  education and and that's very exciting to us the vision of a 
  digital wallet that can handle lots of different types of 
  credentials curated by the holder that can speak to really any 
  aspect of their daily life I think is the reason that this group 
  is so excited about working on this so I'm guessing the other 
  companies feel this way too and we're glad that these standards 
  are aligning to.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar):  to make a possible.
Kerri Lemoie:  Excellent thank you Evan.
Kerri Lemoie:  Dimitri you have the floor.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I think the other thing that the plugfest 
  achieved is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Is the Sun and we're going to talk about this 
  I just a bit but I want to highlight it.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It started the process of setup and planning 
  for the next enter up fast specifically it made a lot of 
  development teams start thinking about and start planning.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The specifics of okay so right now we're just 
  displaying and getting credentials into the wall it somehow but 
  from the next one we're going to have to pick some protocols some 
  issuing protocols and some verification protocols and we're going 
  to pick which did methods we support and which cryptography 
  sweets we're going to use with those dead methods so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It made a lot of dive teams open up a lot of 
  specs and documentation and start planning.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  That was important.
Manu Sporny: +1 Dmitri
Kerri Lemoie:  Exactly thank you Marty.
Kerri Lemoie:  You might we can't hear you.
Marty Reed:  How about now.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yes thank you.
Marty Reed:  Perfect right so I just want to commend the team 
  that put this plugfest together because I felt like it was from 
  the plugfest that we've been a part of over the past few years it 
  was I feel like one of the most productive approaches to to a 
  plugfest and so just kudos to you Kerry Dimitri Sharon like 
  really really amazing.
Marty Reed:   Work and I'm excited.
<taylor_(lef)> +1000
Phil Long: +1 To Marty's comment!
Marty Reed:  Out the next the next the next version of this and 
  I've actually been sharing this model with others that are that 
  are talking about plugfest because of what I feel it was a great 
  success so just well done.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks Marty that's great.
Manu Sporny: +1 To what Marty said and JFF and the Chairs and 
Kerri Lemoie:  Share that and you know I'm just going to say 
  again that Sharon really is has been Visionary for all of this 
  and you know we've mostly who have been supporting her through 
  this and actually said I'm going to hand this over to you to say 
  a little bit about that and also talk about the roadmap for what 
  we're planning next and we'll leave the cue open if anybody else 
  has questions.
Sharon Leu:  Thanks Carrie and I guess I'll say one thing is I 
  and I said this last Monday but I'll say it again I actually 
  severely underestimated the amount of interest that there would 
  be in this activity initially when we had chatted about it we 
  thought oh it would be no problem to bring just a few people to 
  New Orleans there's already Hotel space that we don't have to pay 
  extra for and it would be great opportunity to work together I 
  didn't anticipate.
Sharon Leu:   Eight that so many people would be interested in 
Sharon Leu:  I think that as the development of this continued I 
  think that I quickly realized why people were interested so I was 
  like most encouraged by that and as we're thinking about this 
  roadmap one of the things so so sorry I forgot to say so I 
  apologize and really thank all of you who stayed on the line 
  during the zoom I realized that there were some logistical 
  challenges with audio in and video and that was because we had 
  not prior.
Sharon Leu:   Rehearse that prior.
Sharon Leu:  And so the challenges of a hybrid in person are just 
  the way that they are and we should have known better by now 
  because we were all locked in our houses for two years but anyhow 
  thank you for sticking with us during like I guess some of the 
  very choppiness especially in the beginning so moving forward we 
  are going to have a conversation about what is the best way to 
  work on this and work all together and we have been floating a 
  number of ideas and.
Sharon Leu:   I think they'll tend.
Sharon Leu:  In all in person or all virtual but like I said open 
  to your input on that so that's like one thing that we're like 
  talking about as far as plugfest to the second is on our roadmap 
  actually we had thought that the next logical step in the 
  progression of this was to start having conversations about 
  issuing verifiable credentials so in this plugfest you know I'm 
  glad Marty you enjoyed it in the end because I.
Sharon Leu:   Is concerned you thought it.
Sharon Leu:  Too easy when you call it hello world but the next 
  time we want to actually start having conversations about what 
  does it look like to issue a credentials not to your own wallet 
  and to someone else's wallet or for your wallet to accept 
  verifiable credentials issued by other wallets and there are some 
  I think more difficult questions that we're going to have to 
  answer and so I think that was in our minds the next logical 
  progression however.
Sharon Leu:   We did he.
Sharon Leu:  Some feedback that perhaps going towards verifiers 
  might be the right way to go and I'm a little bit curious what 
  this group thinks.
Kerri Lemoie:  I David see you have the floor.
<kerri_lemoie> (next slide just demonstrates this discussion)
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you David Evan.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Yeah we had assumed that those 
  protocols were baked into the did methods discussion just as part 
  of the Practical you know how we get from here to there so I 
  think the communication of the verifiable credential from the 
  issuer to the wallet is going to be an important discussion for 
  plugfest to as is the did methods that we use and we heard I 
  think in one of the previous meetings that there might be some 
  overlapping Solutions so certainly different folks are going to 
  present different did methods for.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): And it's in the same with issue and 
  we are working on a tool which we should be able to release to 
  the group next week that uses one of the issuance and 
  communication protocols the credential Handler API that would 
  allow folks to basically have a Sandbox and open sandbox that 
  they can use to push credentials into their wallet with the 
  credential Handler API so I can I can drop a link in the chat to 
  the w3c standards track stuff related to chappie if anyone's 
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar):  did and then when that too.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Is available will let the group 
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Evan I'll need your the floor.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Oh thanks I plus 1 the idea of talking about 
  protocols and just helping this journey of credential from its 
  issuer to the wallet that's a really important phase and then of 
  course you protocols that support the Journey of from the wallet 
  to the verifier one word can be a further exploration phase I'd 
  also like to promote maybe the idea that we talked about the 
  place to trust Registries have within this market and.
Nate_Otto_(he/him):  explore whether there is.
Kerri Lemoie: +1 To discussing trust registries
Nate_Otto_(he/him): The best option that would help the market 
  sort of get essential capabilities around understanding which 
  issuers should be trusted to issue which credentials by which 
  verifiers I'm at some point in our long interoperability Journey.
Kerri Lemoie:  She's definitely something we all need to be 
  talking about very soon so it's an interesting idea do as part of 
  this money Mario you have the floor.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah plus 12 needs comment on trust Registries it 
  keeps coming up across various different Industries not just like 
  education but it's come up on the citizen identity you know stuff 
  that DHS is doing it's coming up in you know retail and in 
  there's some Simple Solutions out there but I don't think we've 
  really had a chance to dive into those deeply so plus 1/2 that 
  the reason.
Manu Sporny:   I put myself on the Q was was.
Manu Sporny:  To note two things in the prior DHS s VIP plugfest 
  we had used chappy the credential Handler API to demonstrate 
  cross vendor issuance in presentation that was two years ago in 
  the the updates that Evans mentioning extend chappie to Native 
  wallets as well so later on this.
Manu Sporny:   Weak as.
Manu Sporny:  And we'll be releasing a bunch of documentation on 
  upgrades to chappie that get it to work with Native apps on 
  mobile devices native apps on the desktop while also supporting 
  web-based issuance web-based verification so it's kind of an 
  all-in-one solution to doing all of that as well as you know 
  working with browsers that have typically had struggled a bit 
Manu Sporny:   Happy like.
Manu Sporny:  And iOS Safari we've got some new updates and fixes 
  for that as well we found that to be the easiest way to do 
  integration at least from an interoperability perspective and it 
  supports post both issuance and verification as well as you know 
  some other higher order Concepts like revocation and credential 
  refresh and things of that nature using these Capi so.
Manu Sporny:   I don't know.
Manu Sporny:  I quite agree with David's assertion that we should 
  do verification first because they you've got to do all of it 
  right and whether you're doing issuance or whether you're doing 
  patient in chappies really it's not that different from from each 
  other so all that to say you know looking at the demos what 
  people actually showed I noticed quite a bit of like issuance 
Manu Sporny:   Tatian already happening.
Manu Sporny:  Like if you look at some of these things these 
  these Solutions they're already using protocols to do into 
  verification so I think really the conversation is around okay 
  how many of these are using which protocol to do issuance and how 
  many of these are using which protocol do verification and how 
  quickly can we get those protocols integrated with the 
  applications that don't do those things currently so so we are as 
Manu Sporny:   Mentioned we are absolutely planning to provide.
Manu Sporny:  For dff bugs s specifically around chappie on 
  presentation issuance you know over chapter native apps and web 
  based apps that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you honey Dimitri.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I want a plus one to the comments that Nate 
  and mono gave about about two things one is that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Certain ways it's doesn't matter which we do 
  first because we're definitely going to get to both we're going 
  to get to plug fasts that Temple test both issuance and interop.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Having said that I do think personally that of 
  the to issuance is the more important one because it's the higher 
  risk because verifying is much easier but it is to issuing I 
  think as a community we're fairly comfortable that the various 
  verification libraries or Standalone Service is like the 
  universal verifier will be able to handle pretty much everything 
  whereas there's still very much held breath.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   An edge of the seat.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Expectation to see which issuing protocols 
  will be supported and really will wallets be able to sorry will 
  issuers be able to issue to multiple wallets because that's the 
  key that's what we win or lose by okay that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Dimitri.
Kerri Lemoie:  And here you if I and you're speaking right now 
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay we can come back to fill because we're 
  running low on time Oliver.
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1 To technical meeting!
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah thank you we are we will definitely be having 
  more discussions about this money you have the floor.
<dmitri_zagidulin> in terms of protocols, what I personally 
  suspect is going to happen is -- we have three+ broad groupings 
  of protocols. 1) VC-API / CHAPI, 2) OpenID Connect family of 
  protocols, and 3) WACI-DIDComm
Manu Sporny:  Yeah it's more of a question so we're trying to 
  figure out I think one of the big things we all want to get to is 
  like okay what are the protocols that these wallets are going to 
  use to move things around that can be a much bigger step than 
  issuance and verification on their own so for example you know 
  the verifiable credential API has very straightforward apis for 
  issuance and verification in we can.
Manu Sporny:   You know.
Manu Sporny:  Issuance and verification using just the VC API now 
  that doesn't get us all the way to wallet protocols doing 
  issuance and verification but it does get us to kind of a 
  fundamental Next Step which is Can you issue in verified by a 
  bunch of different arbitrary you know HTTP endpoint so I was 
  wondering if the if what what that level of interoperability 
  played in The Jeff plugfest.
Manu Sporny:   Test if any you know.
Manu Sporny:  Like proving issuance and verification at a more 
  lower-level meet some goals versus trying to like shoot for the 
  moon and get wallet protocols issuing in verifying.
<kayode_ezike> Lately, I’ve been getting the sense that there 
  needs to be a standard mechanism (e.g., config/disco doc) for 
  issuers to specify supported protocols. Wallets can then use this 
  to determine what to do. I fear this may be adding a standard of 
  standards, but just putting it out there.
Kerri Lemoie:  There's a good question Monument I think we should 
  keep that question open for now so I don't think we're quite sure 
  it's a good one to ask before we go to David and try Phil again 
  see if he can join us.
Kerri Lemoie:  Say so we still can't hear you.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm sorry David why don't you go ahead and then 
  I'm David and then maybe fill we can try one more time and then 
  we're going to close it.
<dmitri_zagidulin> less done, and more - easier to do. 
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you David okay Phil no more time to hear 
<dmitri_zagidulin> the other thought about verification is -- 
  nearly all the participants in the 1st plugfest already 
  implemented and displayed verification.
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Are there any next steps on who will be 
  proceeding to PlugFest 2
Kerri Lemoie:  I feel we can't hear you maybe you can keep trying 
  to get your son together we're just going to move to the last 
  slide please we can just talk about what does happen next steps 
  to meet you could you move to slide 13 for me and also I would 
  like to encourage everyone to have these conversations on the 
  mailing list on the VC edu mailing list so we can keep these 
  going and we will schedule times for us to me.
Kerri Lemoie:   Eat and have these discussions but we could 
<sharon_leu> @Tim, anyone who successfully displayed the obv3 
  badge in their vc wallet
Kerri Lemoie:  There and have a pretty robust discussion on the 
  mailing list I think as we've seen before and I'm sorry too much 
  ego one slide back the second to light second to last slide 
Dmitri Zagidulin: @Kayode: good points (re discovering supported 
  protocols). I think if all else fails, each protocol has their 
  own discovery mechanisms. so a wallet could check each protocol's 
  mechanism - oidc, vc-api, didcomm
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay this is I one thing I just wanted to mention 
  how to participate in this next book Fest so those who 
  successfully met the requirements for this first one will receive 
  this jmf DC edu plugfest batch and so to participate in the next 
  one you must complete this batch right because this is the most 
  basic part of the project right is to be able to display a 
  verifiable credential batch so.
Kerri Lemoie:  We will be going through.
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Perfect! Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Sure that everything works right but also you know 
  if you are interested in doing this you can still do this you can 
  still participate in the second plugfest if you want to prove 
  that you've met the requirements for this one so reach out to us 
  if you're interested in that and we'll we'll get you going there.
Kerri Lemoie:  Are you have anything to add to that.
Sharon Leu:  Nope that's it anyone can play.
Kerri Lemoie:  All right we want everyone to play hey Phil I'm 
  going to try you again can you your town working.
<evan_lally_(> thank you!
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Thank you!
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay all right everybody thank you very much for 
  joining us today I'm looking forward to the next one and all of 
  our future meetings when one quick note is that we are not going 
  to have our meeting next Monday to observe a Juneteenth so keep 
  that in mind I will send out a reminder about that thank you 
  everybody have a great week.
<evan_lally_(> you too
Received on Monday, 13 June 2022 21:48:35 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Monday, 13 June 2022 21:48:36 UTC