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[MINUTES] W3C CCG Traceability Call - 2022-07-26

From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 18:46:22 +0000
Message-ID: <E1oGPZU-0062P5-7s@titan.w3.org>
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


Verifiable Traceability Task Force Transcript for 2022-07-26

  1. IP Note, Agenda Review, Scribe Selection
  2. GitHub Issue & PR review
  Orie Steele, Mike Prorock, Mahmoud Alkhraishi
  Our Robot Overlords
  Russell Hofvendahl (mesur.io), TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) 
  (OpenLinkSw.com), Ben - Transmute, Chris Abernethy, Mahmoud 
  Alkhraishi, nis, Vivien

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay and then it gives me the option to stop 
  subtitles so I will not click that and it looks like Auto scribe 
  is working as far as I can tell.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah I can see.
Ben_-_Transmute: And okay and what Chris just said just popped up 
  in chat so I guess it's working so far and I guess as long as it 
  continues to work then I'll just be the host for this meeting 
  does anyone volunteer to run the meeting or my stuff with it.
Ben_-_Transmute: There we can we can top off like last time I can 
  take the second half if you want to but I just my brain is not 
  engaged right now so take it away anus.

Topic: IP Note, Agenda Review, Scribe Selection

Chris_Abernethy: This is Tracy interop week.

Topic: GitHub Issue & PR review

Chris_Abernethy: None for me.
Chris_Abernethy: Let me do a quick review.
Chris_Abernethy: My understanding from Mike is that there was 
  some confusion on what exactly was the measure of completeness 
  for workflow so this is some documentation regarding regarding 
  that I see there's a to do in there so this is always still in 
  progress but I think this is a good initial start to that and I 
  believe that Ted had some changes that have been.
Chris_Abernethy:  an integrated.
Chris_Abernethy: I miss I have one question for you it looks like 
  there's the addition of the USMC a certification of origin was 
  area removal of a file that had a different name or is that a 
  full-on addition of a new item.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah I would I would definitely agree to 
  emerging offline if it is in fact a simple file rename and 
  changing as is done in certification of origin file above it.
Chris_Abernethy: I'm just just to clarify the PGA shipment status 
  list one looks like another file addition is that potential as 
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Russell half and doll.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Check your last name yeah this 
  one's pretty straight forward a bit ago intent to sell was 
  renamed as intend to import there were a few properties that 
  still were holdovers from intent to sell like there was seller 
  and buyer so I switch those two importer/exporter along with some 
  of the language.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah this is working off some 
  spreadsheets to do with the EDD early detection distribution 
  stuff and invasive species shapefile such like geo coordinates 
  and shapes stuff and it's metadata so this one is it creates it 
  creates a certificate or credential for the.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): That links to that references a 
  credential for supporting metadata.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah I actually did resolve those 
  little grammar tweaks I just forgot to I mean I pushed a new 
  commit that does resolve those I just forgot to resolve the 
  conversations such fine.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah um let's see in the file 
  itself it's titled the title is EDD shapefile I I could change 
  the file names to EDD shapefile.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah this one is similarly nice 
  Mama North American invasive species management association so 
  this is working off yeah I think I linked to the PDF document 
  that goes into detail about a bunch of different.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Jules and bunch of different don't 
  know what to call them information sources with fields and 
  turning those into a set of credentials oh there actually is 
  later there's going to be a separate PR integrating these into a 
  single certificate that references a number of these schemas but 
  that's outside of the scope.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): And tell Ted's it's hey Ted's 
  changes we're integrated.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah this is working directly off 
  of her quest for Mike just to have this certificate detailing 
  claims from a third party.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): The only the only tricky bit in 
  this I think as my mood pointed out is that Mike requested that 
  the value of the claim be either a string or an object so I just 
  made a standard value property as well as a value object property 
  that could optionally contain an object instead of the value the 
  string value since its I'm guessing that's.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  How are we handling this for something like 
  identifier North America.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): How do you say yeah.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  This should very much be the same way right 
  it's a single term and it accepts either an object or a string I 
  don't think we should split it up this way anyone know.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah isn't there can we use one up here is that.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Um yeah I can use one of I looked 
  around and I didn't see any I didn't see any examples of one of 
  being used so I assume was guessing that was less pretty of an 
  approach but I can absolutely switch to a one of.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I think one of them would be better than 
  this approach.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  But it's that's the only like when I have on 
  this if that's fine then like my approvals my culture.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Honestly I think yeah I could just 
  I could just change this and put in a an update to this so no 
  need to merge now.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah I'm that's a question I can 
  bring up with Mike but I'm basically just working off of a 
  request that he made to create a credential at the specific 
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): So yeah about that.
Russell_Hofvendahl_(mesur.io): Yeah yeah absolutely.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Can we okay can we pause on this PR until we 
  get answers to that because I was thinking that too and I thought 
  I was missing something like yeah so please if you can Mike on 
  this and have him explain that's his point.
Vivien: Yes so for this one since events are referencing products 
  which are already like have the product Reese's so what I did in 
  this PR is that I replace the direct in bed of a product object 
  with a hash link which points to the product VC and with the hash 
  part of the link and make sure that the product.
Vivien: They say the same.
Vivien: As the Avicii was issued.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  I think this may end up being another one of 
  but in my mind there's no reason why you can't use product is 
  because a product will have five seven ten events and if you're 
  replicating that product info on every event then you're wasting 
  it on the monitor this is more refer to product here today and 
  the reason why you want to Hash link is because if that product 
Mahmoud Alkhraishi:  Well you don't want that much the train is 
  the point right you know the product to be exactly what you 
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so this pull request updates the 
  development that MD file which is addressing issue 307 that I 
  track down and assign myself to so the right now the development 
  that MB file is really out of date and doesn't cover the change 
  to Yellow syntax I guess before it was using Json directly and so 
  what this does is this updates it to reflect our current 
  conventions and.
Ben_-_Transmute:  as I was editing it and.
Ben_-_Transmute: There are a few things that stuck out like when 
  you're writing documentation it's like oh we should do it this 
  way and Define conventions so open up stuff and Postman inside 
  the schema holders I moved into common and credentials to 
  separate by type and then we have tags to separate by further 
  categories and Futures we see that JS it does the exact same 
  thing that regenerate does accept.
Ben_-_Transmute:  a single one instead of just generating the.
Ben_-_Transmute: For a set of credentials so I removed the folder 
  relate to create future VCS in favor of just being able to run 
  regenerate that Jess.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah so yeah and that that's a pull request 505.
Ben_-_Transmute: And thanks Ted for the lots of edits and fixes 
  to my horrible programmer spelling.
Ben_-_Transmute: I think CI is probably to take another second if 
  there's no no objections I think we can merge this as soon as 
  this you guys is that okay.
Ben_-_Transmute: I I was thinking of a suggestion instead of 
  doing by sorting by the least recently updated what do we want to 
  look at issues with the pending close tag to see if we can close 
  this out first and then switch to least recently updated.
Chris_Abernethy: I have no objection with that as long as we get 
  to the first 30 off two requirements tickets in Trade Center up.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay actually but if those are high if those are 
  higher priority let's let's kind of do it in that order we can do 
  to 40 to 45 to 40 42 43 44.
Ben_-_Transmute: Sorry if they're just right in order let's let's 
  240 has a pending closed let's look at that and let's let's 
  switch to the ones that Chris Chris brought up.
Ben_-_Transmute: I agree I think it's been resolved.
Ben_-_Transmute: They'll trace the trace and drop is pretty small 
  I think Trace vocab has a bunch of pending close.
Ben_-_Transmute: I mean not traceable cab sorry brain not 
Ben_-_Transmute: On Trade Center up on Trace vocab has a lot but 
  I think are we let's let's stick with since we're on tracing drop 
  this week let's take with trace and drop.
Ben_-_Transmute: You sure it's like.
Chris_Abernethy: I actually see six of them seven of them you 
  just close and trace it in her up.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay alright let's let's let's do that just just 
  a quick check or worth 30 minutes out so I think we have time to 
  look at Tres vocab pending close and then switch over to the the 
  issues that Chris wants to address.
Ben_-_Transmute: Is that okay.
Ben_-_Transmute: All right so first one regret or issue for 45 
  this is update traceable presentation example I think this was 
  addressed in or he's poor Quest 458 is this is this does this 
  mean that this has been closed or do we want give Cory a chance 
  to confirm this is can be closed up.
Chris_Abernethy: Let's ping Oregon and get him to confirm.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay I think so I can ping them in chat when he 
  gets back from ietf and if he says it can be closed then we can 
  close it 33.
Ben_-_Transmute: Beyond the 384 I think oh this is a dupe of 192 
  so I think this should be.
Ben_-_Transmute: Preciate for it to close if you have two of the 
  same thing.
Ben_-_Transmute: I mean there's.
Ben_-_Transmute: Maybe there is there's a tagging structure which 
  was added in the credentials so I think that issue can be closed 
  and then industry specific credentials into a folder I think that 
  I think that right now separating types by folder of having 
  common credentials and presentations and then using tags to 
  separate by category and Industry is a better approach to do this 
  but I might have been might have been a little.
Ben_-_Transmute: Trigger Happy in.
Ben_-_Transmute: A flying leap ending clothes.
Ben_-_Transmute: Tag to this.
Ben_-_Transmute: Let's go ahead and close 384 then.
Ben_-_Transmute: Moving on 2311 2311 development that I'm 
  deontology structure for you should we change the yamo example I 
  think this is just outdated and that was completely updated so I 
  think this one can be safely closed.
Ben_-_Transmute: All right closing.
Ben_-_Transmute: Let's just close it so that's good I think by 
  extension 307 which does not have pending clothes currently I 
  just updated.
Ben_-_Transmute: The development that ND file so I think this can 
  also be closed.
Ben_-_Transmute: Unless we want to.
Ben_-_Transmute: Further changes to that file.
Ben_-_Transmute: Not not I'll just close it all right.
Ben_-_Transmute: So going back up the crystal presentation we 
  have a pending close on 287.
Ben_-_Transmute: So miss added defending clothes for this I think 
  this is due to lack of Engagement.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so we can markets closed and just say 
  reopen if you don't agree and just be a little aggressive on that 
  next one is fixed iri format this one is Penny close.
Ben_-_Transmute: There's a lot going on here no concrete changes 
  have been suggested and not agree to this is set on pending 
  closed on May 25th I think two months is enough to give people 
  notice to respond to a issue so I'm just going to say closing due 
  to lack of activity.
Ben_-_Transmute: Next one is.
Ben_-_Transmute: Remove s sack from generic bill of lading miss 
  it looks like you march this the spending close on February 22.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so does that mean this can be closed.
Ben_-_Transmute: Closing issue and last one is u n-- c e fact.
Ben_-_Transmute: His results so that covered that I think with my 
  main issue with traceability vocab right now is I trade center 
  off as like 20 issues are pretty easy to keep track of 
  traceability has like a th juice that we keep forgetting to come 
  back to and keeps growing so I kind of just recommendation for 
  everyone and anyone like if there's an issue that you see that 
  can be like put on the pending close tag and.
Ben_-_Transmute:  bring it up and just meeting.
Ben_-_Transmute: Squash some try to focus more on the important 
Ben_-_Transmute: Chris what do you have it did you have any 
  specific issue so you wanted to bring it first for interrupt if 
  we get back to that.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah and they just happen to be the first three 
  in order anyway I just want to get some ready for PR tags on 
  those so that we can move forward.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so be 315 314 3:13.
Ben_-_Transmute: Or or what.
Chris_Abernethy: Exactly 245 243 and 242.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay let's do that.
Ben_-_Transmute: The first one would be to 45 this is defined a 
  lot to requirements for a with for presentations proof and right 
  now that currently is it must require a lot to and the scope is 
Chris_Abernethy: Yes and this is I mean I think we've discussed 
  this at length.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay I think in this case the justification is 
  this requires this endpoint requires the server to have control 
  over the person's keys and that means that by definition this 
  endpoint requires authentication are we ready to put a ready for 
  PR label on this.
Ben_-_Transmute: 245 has a very prepared label next one is 244.
Chris_Abernethy: I think the Nexus 243.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay alright let's just.
Ben_-_Transmute: The URL enter require for presentations 
  available this current state is presentations available must not 
  require oauth2 and this is by definition because we are using did 
  off and not cool with that this must not have this must not 
  require oauth2 authentication I believe this is.
Ben_-_Transmute:  who's ready for pie.
Chris_Abernethy: Not for me.
Chris_Abernethy: I don't want to close it until we have the 
  necessary conformance testing in place.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah so that's what these PR for are we let's 
  see what's the next 12 44.
Chris_Abernethy: 242 is next but I do believe 244 requires the 
  same treatment.
Ben_-_Transmute: Let's go ahead and do 242 presentation 
  submissions this is identical to presentations available that by 
  definition this must be unauthenticated to allow for did off to 
  take place are we okay with putting a ready for PR.
Ben_-_Transmute: And then now we can get back to 244.
Ben_-_Transmute:  which is.
Ben_-_Transmute: Let's see one.
Ben_-_Transmute: Presentations verify shouldn't this Philip 
  required here be presentations verify I agree I completely.
Ben_-_Transmute: Messed up so I would say yes verify 
Chris_Abernethy: I will modify that.
Ben_-_Transmute: And this is a similar justification to verify 
  your credentials that by definition this is consuming several 
  resources and we would want pull up to to be required for 
  authentication I will go ahead and apply the ready for PR label 
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay is there any other.
Ben_-_Transmute: Use so we want to get priority.
Ben_-_Transmute: For Trace interrupt or do we want to go ahead 
  and go back to the sort by least recently updated.
Chris_Abernethy: Since those are the only ones that I was 
  concerned about addressing today.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay let's go ahead and sort by least comment 
  lease recently updated and I was just going to order and.
Ben_-_Transmute: Do we want to leave time at the end to post the 
  minutes or do we are we okay with.
Ben_-_Transmute: Someone taking care of that offline.
Chris_Abernethy: I'm happy to take care of that offline I just 
  can't do it until later today.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay I can I'll I can give it a shot after the 
  after the meeting and I will post in the svi P group to let you 
  know if that worked.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so it looks like Chris this is your issue 
  for to so sorting by least recently updated it's like Chris this 
  is your issue for 272 would you like to provide some context.
Chris_Abernethy: Yes so this is when I added a new report for the 
  conformance testing it's using the same HTML template that we use 
  for the interop testing and this I opened this issue because it 
  seems like it might be a good idea for us to tailor those a 
  little bit so that a have different wording or anything else that 
  we might think of that is appropriate to change and I just want 
  to open this issue to track.
Chris_Abernethy:  Ian's on that.
Ben_-_Transmute: Could I have.
Ben_-_Transmute: What is that the one that gets loading the URL 
  is that is that the one with the table with the arrows at the 
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay my one kind of pet peeve about this is the 
  table called with for assertion is too short and that bugs me 
  worth it is.
Chris_Abernethy: That is definitely good I would welcome a ticket 
  on that specific issue I'm happy to fix that I agree with you but 
  I don't think that should be added to this issue.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay alright so if that's if that's a separate 
  that that's my one main pet peeve about these other than that 
  does anyone just drawing attention is there anything else for the 
  templates that needs addressing.
Chris_Abernethy: If other folks don't have any insight into this 
  just yet I'm you know I'm happy to go look at those templates and 
  add some suggestions for discussion.
Ben_-_Transmute: With you is that the right link for where these 
  templates are what the result of the templates are for the 
  interim reports interoperability was that link I posted correct.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah so that's the interoperability report and 
  then if you change interoperability to conformance you get the 
  conformance reports.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay and the main the main ask here is 
  forwarding or other things of that nature.
Chris_Abernethy: Yes so for example they both have the exact same 
  title perhaps we'd like to differentiate them somehow maybe 
  differentiate the summary a little bit.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay I just added a quick comment with that 
  interrupts report performance report to make it specific for 
  what's being asked and then possible suggestions would be to 
  change title or summary or something of that nature so there's a 
  coming on this it's now not the least recently updated are we 
  okay to move on to the next issue.
Ben_-_Transmute: This one is from or E2 final forbid 
  human-readable exchange ID consider I honestly have no idea 
  what's going on in this consider post exchanges credential 
  refresh definition oil from see a definition steel import from MX 
  so or versus post exchanges you are Nu RI D I'm kind of confused 
  because it doesn't overlap with the.
Ben_-_Transmute: Points that we have to find.
Ben_-_Transmute: And it looks like the last comment on this is 
  from this soap Miss can you give your opinions on a tease.
Ben_-_Transmute: I think the question would be are the questions 
  being asked is what's our opinion in terms of policy is that 
  defined anywhere in the spec.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah I think I think yeah I think one way to 
  address this would be to say that we only we only Define the 
  endpoint of the suffix for presentations panel presentation 
  submissions or presentations and that anything that comes before 
  that is up to the person implementing the spec so if they want if 
  they would want to say steal or import presentations that that 
  would be within their right to do so.
Ben_-_Transmute:  I put.
Ben_-_Transmute: Comment for proposal for resolution of saying we 
  allow for human rights human readable past we do not allow for 
  human readable pass and number one as we agree on this definition 
  we have updated the Specter of like this but as in this just said 
  we might just use the lack of definition to imply that we allow 
  for human readable pass.
Ben_-_Transmute: So I will I will leave this issue as is but I 
  think we can probably just say add the pending closed label and 
  unless people strongly feel about this I think that this can 
  probably be closed without any action potentially.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so next going to be issue 199 need a place 
  to store test results over time this is brought up by Mike 
  somewhere to have a database I believe right now the report is 
  just updating a report every day and does not update the 
  statistics over time is that correct.
Chris_Abernethy: That is correct and I think that this is not 
  necessarily a request to update stats over time but more to 
  archive all of these reports every day so that they are available 
  should someone want to look at them.
Ben_-_Transmute: Oh so if you want to go back and say what was it 
  yesterday was it the day before that what was it two weeks ago 
  you would be able to index it by each day.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay and so what is the current thinking of 
Chris_Abernethy: And the last comment I put in there is I was 
  thinking that now that / reports is no longer where the report 
  lives it there's an additional subfolder depending on which one 
  you look at we could put an index at / reports that enumerates 
  all of the historical reports that are available and we could 
  store them perhaps in / reports / archive and just have them 
  automatically publish their as well as you know in the current.
Ben_-_Transmute: So what I think that sounds perfectly reasonable 
  to we want to assign a ready for PR labels with for this.
Chris_Abernethy: I think that makes sense and I'm happy to take 
  this one on.
Ben_-_Transmute: So I will go ahead and I can assign Chris.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so it has a ready for PR label and Chris 
  has been assigned and let's see what do we want to have one or 
  two will try to do one or two more issues next one is.
Ben_-_Transmute: This is mrs. favorite issue to come up I think 
  the assignee as usually do it yes yeah.
Chris_Abernethy: It looks like he is conveniently dropped.
Ben_-_Transmute: Oh too bad I think he knew what was coming.
Ben_-_Transmute: Um okay I started playing around with with 
  Postman Collections and I didn't notice that I'm on on Postman 
  when you boot it up it says like hey here's PayPal's Postman 
  collection here's Twitter's Postman collection that there is a 
  place to publish Postman collections so I think this issue is 
  just to publish them there to get some visibility and I think 
  that this might not.
Ben_-_Transmute: Is people make it out to be.
Ben_-_Transmute: Except it's not hard except we've been trying 
  we've been dodging this for the last five months so okay let's 
  let's just say no action has been taken on this issue and make a 
  comment and yeah I think that that might be something to follow 
  up with it.
Ben_-_Transmute: They get it or something.
Ben_-_Transmute: Last one is another fan favorite.
Ben_-_Transmute: Selective disclosure rules.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah we just keep saying there's nothing to do 
Ben_-_Transmute: Just a quick summary on this what what's the 
  pressure on selective credentials selective disclosure and and 
  would that be done with traceability interop or would that be 
  something that would be addressed by traceability of okay.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah I mean it's.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): It seems 
  worthwhile to ask Brian or whatever to.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Because 
  they're most likely to have the right details to throw in.
Chris_Abernethy: Yeah now might be a good time to ask him to do 
  that as well because it looks like his latest comment indicated 
  that perhaps there might be some changes coming to ietf that 
  would be relevant.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so I guess we can follow up with brand or 
  whatever that's the screen name right.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay so I think that would be the next course of 
  action to take on this issue to ask for that and that brings up.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah let's let's go Miss can you add a comment 
  to Pink.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay and we are right at time so I guess thank 
  everyone for coming I will go ahead and turn off recording I will 
  post it minutes on the w3c meeting page and I will see you all 
  next week have a good one.
Received on Tuesday, 26 July 2022 18:46:22 UTC

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