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[MINUTES] W3C CCG Traceability Interop Call - 2022-07-19

From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:48:54 +0000
Message-ID: <E1oEB0M-002Z4S-Ir@titan.w3.org>
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2022-07-19

  1. Announcements
  2. VCWG Input Documents
  3. Web5 - The Decentralized Web Platform
  1. Move forward with Final Community Group Specification 
    publications by the Work Item Editors and Transfer all input 
    documents listed in the VCWG 2.0 Charter to the VCWG
  Heather Vescent, Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson
  Our Robot Overlords
  Charles E. Lehner, Mike Prorock, Orie Steele, TallTed // Ted 
  Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Ted Thibodeau, Will 
  Abramson, Marty Reed, Manu Sporny, Kimberly Linson, Daniel 
  Buchner, Harrison Tang, KM Gunnarsdottir (JFF), Simone Ravaoli, 
  Sharon Leu, Leo, Dmitri Zagidulin, Kerri Lemoie, Paul Fuxjäger, 
  Nate Otto, Erica Connell, BrentZ, Kayode Ezike, Jeff Orgel, 
  Annette@transmute.industries, Jon St. John, Snorre Lothar von 
  Gohren Edwin, Kaliya Young, Adrian , Rodolfo Miranda, Ryan Grant, 
  Heather Vescent, Shawn Butterfield, James Chartrand, Juan 
  Caballero, Jeff O - HumanOS, Juancho, Phil L (P1), David I. Lehn, 
  David Chadwick, Lance

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Mike Prorock:  Welcome all to the community credentials group 
  meeting Tuesday July 19th there's going to be a fun announcement 
  up first followed by a quick matter of course related to VC 
  working group 2.0 maybe a few other announcements as well and the 
  main show today will be Daniel Buckner talking about their lovely 
  collection of Standards known as better than web 2 & 3.
Mike Prorock: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
Mike Prorock: I'm going to paste the agenda in the chat today or 
  the link to it there of just a quick note that this meeting is 
  covered under the code of ethics professional conduct for w3c 
  unfortunately we don't tend to have too many issues here with 
  that and yet one more note is that this is a public meeting and 
  anyone can participate in these calls but any contributions to 
  actual work items you must be a member of the ccg with IP our 
  agreement signed etc etc we do use jitsi chat as well as 
  tightened IRC I believe still to actually manage Q I think the 
  raise hand button is actually tied into the queue but otherwise 
  you could just type Q Plus to put yourself on the Queue please do 
  be mindful of time and other folks that are also queuing up you 
  can always type.
Mike Prorock:   The question mark to see who's on the Q which 
Mike Prorock:  Who several times during this meeting and q- to 
  pull yourself from the queue if your question was answered.

Topic: Announcements

Mike Prorock:  Relying on the robot overlords and various NLP and 
  speech-to-text type items to scribe for us which is great with 
  that I am going to go ahead and make a first announcement which 
  is that the did press release the quit the press release for did 
  core is out and there are quite a few members of this community 
  that are quoted in that.
Manu Sporny: 
Mike Prorock:  Obviously years of work from this community on 
  onward I was lucky enough to come in kind of towards the tail end 
  of that from a real active side and be able to engage on that and 
  consider myself quite fortunate to be able to engage with all the 
  fine people on that work item and really just really really 
  excited about that and thank you man of for posting the link out 
  to that press release so do do go ahead and amplify I think 
  there's big things - folks like Intel on that press release for 
  instance right this is this is a really good thing so with that 
  any other announcements before we move over to a matter of 
  processing related to the VC working group.
Mike Prorock:  Check for that all right I am not saying anything 
  I believe Kalia actually dropped one or two items related to iaw 
  coming out on the list so just be able to look out for that kind 
  of stuff I think there's some you know kind of remote sessions or 
  hybrid type sessions coming up so just be on the lookout for that 
  kind of stuff.

Topic: VCWG Input Documents

Mike Prorock:  That man you I'm going to put you on point to 
  describe the situation and then I'm going to actually put a 
  proposal out for folks that have not been around for this we're 
  going to take a we have a fun situation going basically the VC 
  working group has reformed as a 2.0 working group and there are a 
  list of input documents many of which were authored in the ccg 
  and are currently ccg work items.
Mike Prorock:   We need to find out if there's any.
Mike Prorock:  To passing control of those over to the VC working 
  group and then to process those according to the way the editors 
  and the chairs for those various work items as they change 
  ownership go so that's the topic for right now Manu do you want 
  to add any more context there.
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/#deliverables
Manu Sporny:  Sure happy to I'm going to drop a couple of links 
  in here just for the record so as Mike mentioned the verifiable 
  credentials working group Charter the new one that was adopted in 
  ratified in used to create the new verifiable credentials working 
  group has a set of deliverables as Mike also said those 
  deliverables include things like Json web signature 2020 in the 
  data Integrity work.
Manu Sporny:  And Edwards curve in missed car.
Manu Sporny:  Let's curves and all that kind of stuff this 
  community the credentials community group has been incubating 
  those documents part of the w3c process requires us to do 
  something called a final community group specification so that 
  basically means that we have been operating under a contributor 
  can contributor sorry a w3c community contributor license 
  agreement which basically.
Manu Sporny:   Ali says.
Manu Sporny: https://www.w3.org/community/about/process/final/
Manu Sporny:  None of us are going to hold the w3c or anyone 
  hostage with any of the ideas that we've contributed to the 
  specifications the so that's what we've been doing to this point 
  incubating these documents at the very end when we say okay we're 
  ready to hand this work over to an official w3c working group 
  there's a part of the process called making a final community 
  group specification.
Manu Sporny:   Moment so I'm putting a URL link.
Manu Sporny:  That there's a licensing agreement that goes along 
  with that that's very close to the the contributor licensing 
  agreement but basically anyone that feels that they have 
  contributed to the document or anyone identified as having 
  contribute to the document is expected to say yes I contributed 
  to the document and no I am not asserting any patent rights or 
  copyright or anything on the stuff that I contributed and yes I'm 
  okay with this document going over to.
Manu Sporny:   To the.
Manu Sporny:  The the official V CW G so the thing that we need 
  to do today is to publish these documents any input document to 
  the VC WG as a final community community group specification once 
  we do that then people can click a button that says I you know 
  I'm not making any patent.
Manu Sporny:   Assertions on this document.
Manu Sporny:  So I think I think that's that's it let me pause 
  there and see if there any questions before Mike you put that 
  proposal in the.
Mike Prorock:  Yep I've got that proposal queued up and ready to 
  go and I'm watching the queue.
Marty Reed:  Dad question once the work moves into the VC work 
  group then only members of w3c can contribute or augment is that.
Mike Prorock:  That's a great question Marty that's actually not 
  the case so there's a couple of ways that contributions can occur 
  probably the easiest is actually to be a member of the working 
  group which while is very easy if you're a w3c member because 
  then you just click and say Yes I want to join this group you can 
  also just file a quick request on the working group age to come.
Mike Prorock:  Doesn't invited expert.
Mike Prorock:  And to start that process obviously if you're a 
  contributor or own one of these specs that you know makes that 
  much much easier so does that answer your question Marty.
Marty Reed:  Yeah I just I just wanted to clarify because in 
  order to you know originally join the BC working group was my 
  understanding that you did have to be a paying member of w3c.
<brentz> happy to talk briefly about IE status, if that is 
Marty Reed:  It got it okay.
Mike Prorock:  Yeah that just removes all barriers basically but 
  yeah it's and additionally depending on the item like I know for 
  sure in many cases we've had especially for non-normative items 
  kind of open GitHub type stuff like depending on what it is for 
  issues and stuff like that but it but typically what really what 
  the most common path is.
Marty Reed:  Thank you for the clarification.
Mike Prorock:  Membership blood followed by the expert status 
  cool Heather.
Heather Vescent:  For more formal structure of what is considered 
  an invited expert because my experience has been this is this has 
  been said this is a pathway but it's actually a gatekeeper.
Mike Prorock:  I you know I think bran you are on the call I'm 
  going to point to you since you're currently somewhat involved in 
  the VC working group would you care to clarify how invited 
  experts are being handled for PC what we were happy.
BrentZ: I'm happy to ask you to do so I don't want to talk over 
  carry though if she has a comment to answer me first.
Kerri Lemoie:  Nobody was implemented.
BrentZ: So there are.
<kaliya_identitywoman> They let Tony Nadalin in as an Invited 
  Expert after his super bad almost stalky behavior
BrentZ: Yes it is true that IE status is a potential access route 
  for joining the VC working group and it's not an access route 
  that anybody can just sign up for and get in the group with as 
  Heather points out it is gatekeeping there are a number of 
  reasons for this most of which is the w3c survives on member 
BrentZ: And as such there are some members of organizations that 
  are trying to join as an invited expert when really their 
  organization is benefiting from the work in such a way that it 
  would be most appropriate for them to join us full members of the 
  w3c and so you know that that is one reason why an invited expert 
  might not be approved to join the group other groups and other.
BrentZ: What it boils down to is that when an invited expert 
  application comes in it is up to the chairs and the chairs of the 
  particular working group to determine what they expect from an 
  invited expert previous groups that I have chaired had the 
  expectation that an invited expert would be raising PRS and 
  actively contributing to.
Mike Prorock: +1 Manu
BrentZ: The current guidelines that Christina and I are following 
  is that and an invited expert needs to be expected to contribute 
  but those contributions do not necessarily need to take the form 
BrentZ: Actual spec text in PRS so just so yes unfortunately 
  there are gate key aspects to the IE status the gates are a 
  little bit wider in this group than they have been in previous 
  groups but there's kind of an overarching barrier which is that 
  if you are a member of a company that is benefiting from the work 
  then it's harder to argue that I.
BrentZ:  IE status is.
BrentZ: Yet when the most appropriate step is to have your 
  organization just joined the w3c so there's a couple of things at 
  work and hopefully that clarifies it a bit but happy to you know 
  take questions directly and feel free to ping me by email or.
Heather Vescent:  I guess Brent like as someone who has been gate 
  kept twice but yet invited in when I was co-chair I've not seen 
  any transparency and I know one of those times I was gate kept 
  personal and I know the antidotal messages oh if you're just 
  friends with the chair they'll let you in and that's what I've 
  seen I'd like to see a little bit more rigor and transparency and 
  maybe you and Christina could kind of.
Heather Vescent:   Of like document some of that so.
Heather Vescent:  Lisa addresses some of the.
Heather Vescent:   I don't want.
Heather Vescent:  Nepotism but it's like I mean.
<mprorock> @Heather - I appreciate the concern (it is valid) - 
  but this is a W3C policy aspect
Heather Vescent:  It definitely does not look good from an 
  openness perspective and it is actually quite harmful to the ccg 
  in that we have such an open group and we're trying to involve as 
  many people here in the participation but it is really hurtful if 
  people are able to contribute to like the DID spec or verifiable 
  credentials stuff here in the ccg and then their gate kept from 
  anything further because they don't fit certain characteristics.
Heather Vescent:   Or even like those characters.
Heather Vescent:  Six aren't even like clear so it would be just 
  really great to start with like some transparency of some of 
  these points so that at least people could be treated the same.
BrentZ: I hear what you're saying and thank you for the feedback.
Mike Prorock:  All right, Kerri.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah sorry there's some good points Heather thank 
  you for saying that I was actually I'm just one do ask question 
  I'm making an assumption that any of the task force and the work 
  items that are going on there none of that is related to any of 
  this and can keep going as we've been doing.
Mike Prorock:  Correct yeah this is only the items that are 
  listed in that Charter which I believe may know I'm trying to 
  think if there is anything that would come in at this point aside 
  from you know the Json you know web signature type stuff the 
  linked data verification type stuff right I think it's primarily 
  signature related is that correct or am I missing something.
Manu Sporny:  Correct at this point but I think you know if we 
  get something on the record to say that you know what the the ccg 
  doesn't have any issue with the be cwg pulling the work into a in 
  do the formal working group then we don't have to come back and 
  revisit the other optional documents.
Mike Prorock:  She exactly as those things precisely if for some 
  reason some other item came up and I mean that is kind of the 
  whole point right Community groups and business groups are pretty 
  standard so the whole goal is to promote them up into a standard 
  zorg typically signaled if you're coming in through a w3c 
  community or business group your signaling that you're going to 
  take it to a VC working or you know some actual working group at 
  the w3c.
Mike Prorock:   I'm going to put the proposal in the chat.

PROPOSAL:  Move forward with Final Community Group Specification 
  publications by the Work Item Editors and Transfer all input 
  documents listed in the VCWG 2.0 Charter to the VCWG

Manu Sporny: +1
Orie Steele: +1
Mike Prorock:  So basically to move forward with final community 
  group specification Publications by the work item editors and 
  chairs as required and to transfer all input documents listed in 
  the VC working group Charter to d.c. working group.
Charles E. Lehner: +1
Marty Reed: +1
<heather_vescent> 0
Mike Prorock:  And if you were not familiar with voting you'll 
  see an example in there which is Mando and or he's signaling 
  support by a plus one minus one would support say that you're not 
  supportive of this zero indicates basically a neutral pass.
Ted Thibodeau: +1
<snorre_diwala> 0
Kimberly Linson: +1
Kaliya Young: +1
<shawn_butterfield> 0
Kerri Lemoie: +1
Mike Prorock:  I'm going to keep this open for a few more seconds 
  here just in case we're missing anyone.
<econnell> 0

RESOLUTION: Move forward with Final Community Group Specification 
  publications by the Work Item Editors and Transfer all input 
  documents listed in the VCWG 2.0 Charter to the VCWG

Mike Prorock:  All right I'm going to call it I'm going to mark 
  this resolved and we will proceed with the lovely back in the 
  office type stuff there.
<manu_sporny> woo!
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah yeah can you hear me.
<kerri_lemoie> We need a party to celebrate DIDs.
Mike Prorock:  So thanks so much for that all without further Ado 
  congrats again to everyone on dids because that's amazing and 
  with that I'm going to pass it on to an interesting collection of 
  Standards at some other stuff Daniel are you good to go have a 
  happy to present or awesome so I could hit the ball to you thank 
  you for joining us just as quick intro if you don't know Daniel 
  Buckner he is.
Mike Prorock:   He's been man.
<juancho> Tireless is the adjective for daniel

Topic: Web5 - The Decentralized Web Platform

<juancho> He does not tire
Mike Prorock:  All supporter in all sorts of different ways for a 
  lot of the standards were working on verifiable credentials dids 
  Etc and one thing I've always appreciated about Daniel is the 
  fact that even though he and I don't always see eye-to-eye oh 
  lots of different things both technical etcetera he's always in 
  the interest of actually seeing the standard come out to the best 
  of its ability across the board and sticks to that and that's 
  that's something that I think is.
Mike Prorock:   Is always worth drawing.
Mike Prorock:  The lesson from right of the it can be tough to do 
  is folks get really passionate about this stuff and and bringing 
  that level of passion and dedication to studying the stuff move 
  forward literally from some of the earliest days of can we 
  actually take any of these texts and turn them into something 
  real and useful and especially hitting at the Privacy aspects and 
  some of the other high value items that are coming about from 
  these standards has been awesome to see so with that that's more 
  than enough intro for me because I'm.
Mike Prorock:   I'm not doing Daniel any justice and off we go to 
  the web five.
Daniel Buchner:  Okay I can get him down here me.
Mike Prorock:  Loud and clear.
Mike Prorock:  Apple to special is up and looks great.
Daniel Buchner:  Awesome okay so you probably see this first 
  slide then I would hope of the gaudy label or name the chosen the 
  stuff so yeah I guess I'll just start with you know what is this 
  website thing and why is it named that I think that's you know 
  something everyone's been wondering is it was it is simple as two 
  plus two equals five or any of these other things floating around 
  up I'd say can provide some context and color the reason why we 
  did this was one.
Daniel Buchner:  We didn't really like you know someone.
Daniel Buchner:  With browsers and on browser tech for quite a 
  while previous to all the stuff you know there's a palpable sense 
  in the traditional web developer community that the ratcheting of 
  these numbers is sort of you know this third rail right and we're 
  in this case I guess is fifth Rail and typically that's been 
  something that hasn't been well received in that Community what 
  five is much about sort of the erasing this numerical 
  incrementation claim.
Daniel Buchner:   As anything else.
<juancho> All my apes gone
Daniel Buchner:  Say what you will about web three you know maybe 
  there's some interesting things in there but there's also some 
  things that I think have maybe been detrimental you know to folk 
  two individuals both monetarily you know financially and 
  otherwise and you know even privacy privacy aspects so part of 
  what we want to do is create some separation literally numerical 
  separation you know to skip for put some put some daylight in 
  between it to segment out the.
Daniel Buchner:   Set of standards that work all together for.
Daniel Buchner:  We try many ways real applications a lot of the 
  the decentralized applications you've seen touted under under the 
  web three Mantra anyway have more or less there they're sort of 
  like visualizations of on chain smart contracts and that's that's 
  not to me you know it's kind of does the word decentralized 
  application disservice in the sense that I don't think many 
  people wake up I certainly don't every day and say my gosh I 
  really need to be into that smart contract right now I don't know 
  how I'm going to make my coffee today.
Daniel Buchner:   They probably are looking at their phones and a 
  bunch of apps on their phone.
Daniel Buchner:  He based apps that have nothing to do with their 
  finances it's not say finances aren't important but you know my 
  goal over these last year's last decade or more has been let's 
  get like decentralized versions of those apps going and a lot of 
  them don't require tokens or any of those other things so the the 
  moniker is to separate right the technologies that don't require 
  those aspects things you might find in what three from the the 
  actual stuff that builds decentralized apps so digging in you 
Daniel Buchner:   We want to evolve the web.
Daniel Buchner:  It's beyond just traditional identity we want to 
  involve the web to to adopt a new model where people are at the 
  center and that's about their identity their data privacy what 
  they disclose all of that and it's a holistic thing it's not just 
  identity is traditional sense of like hey I do authentication I 
  provide governmentally related credentials revving that's kind of 
  that tends to be what we in the church identity Community have 
  focused on a lot and I think it's a bit too much.
Daniel Buchner:   Wider scope so we want the web to come to you 
  want you.
Daniel Buchner:  With you and want you know absent service to be 
  more subjugated to the user which is a good thing and so what is 
  what is what 5 composed of right there was web to there's web 
  three or I guess I don't know what what there really is term 
  describe but there certainly is worth five and what that is is a 
  decentralized web platform comprised of their last developers to 
  a decentralized web apps with dids decentralized webnotes some 
  form of standardized personal data store I'll leave it at that 
  and then.
Daniel Buchner:   I follow credentials in there as well but those 
  two things those three things in concert.
Daniel Buchner:  Label enable people to build decentralized web 
  apps and that's that's really what we envision is what fine so 
  the pillars would vibrate like I said before dids verifiable 
  credentials decentralized web knows Community has done a great 
  job of first to you know be seized or standardized for deities 
  but now deities are standard as well and we're really missing one 
  piece we're missing circling the wagons around a application 
  capable personal data store that can act as the foundational 
  Center of queries.
Daniel Buchner:   And you know all the things.
<mprorock> I see you Ted - and great question - holding some 
  questions to a good break point
Daniel Buchner:  Is that you would need to do if you're building 
  robust web applications and that's that's sort of the last pillar 
  that we all have to work on is a DW ends well you know maybe 
  there's a debate about that but we have a strong conviction about 
  it so decentralized Enterprise I'm not going to spend much time 
  on these because you all know this stuff this is a slight at 
  those developed for more people than just ourselves I'm not 
  really going to go over it you know DIY is important you can't 
  have decentralized Identity or user-centric data you know really 
  without them verified.
Daniel Buchner:   Credentials also you know something everyone's 
  familiar with so I'll just skip over it the last piece is.
Daniel Buchner:  The personal data store peace what do we need in 
  a personal taste or even if you didn't see the name for this 
  particular personal data store after topping and if and w3c what 
  would you want right what are the things that need it needs to do 
  well I think it has to be universally addressable so you have to 
  be able to find a disorder of didd through a common means I 
  believe that replication is really important I think if you do it 
  later if you don't sort of build with it in mind immediately.
Daniel Buchner:   Only you kind of tend to back yourself in a 
  corner with your architectures and it becomes really difficult 
Daniel Buchner:  Multi-Device masterless operation the default 
  really from the beginning or else it is very hard to backfill 
  need to be secure so optionally encrypted data you know if 
  someone wants to make something publicly a tweet obviously they 
  should be able to if someone wants to encrypt something with the 
  medical records they should be able to semantic Discovery right 
  so I strongly believe that the world is sort of architected in a 
  way where things are obscured behind walls of HTML and 
  proprietary apis and it's that.
Daniel Buchner:   Inability to sort of query against just a known 
Daniel Buchner:  Right an own data type and that's something 
  that's just not really present in the world today we kind of even 
  when people do agree on data types like maybe gs1 or others 
  they'll tend to stick them behind a proprietary API that does 
  access to some you know custom means that they choose and it 
  makes it really hard to interoperate and sort of have that 
  Mashable web so semantics Discovery and data encoding is really 
  important asynchronous message threads like this is one thing 
  you'll see like ytc falls falls victim to and certain other 
  protocols like.
Daniel Buchner:  They're based on you know web connection there's 
  nowhere to go drop off sort of like you would an email something 
  that happens days.
Daniel Buchner:  You in an early early days verifiable 
  credentials very to be going from a world of analog to digital so 
  in fact it's not a ramp problem we face this problem immediately 
  anytime you're going to interface the business who has a back-end 
  process to be able to get things over into VC there may be hours 
  or days potentially especially for working the government 
  obviously to get these things transferred and that means that 
  people are going to have to come back and be able to get the 
  credentials its output now you know there's a lot of schemes for.
Daniel Buchner:   Being and all this sort of nonsense but I mean 
  those are just super ugly it's just a lot better if something 
  notes your t.i..
Daniel Buchner:  That's why synchrony in interactions is 
  important and I'll leave it there but basically you know that's 
  that's the final pillar you some of you may be working on this 
  piece which I didn't really a pillar technology as much as is 
  easier Aid we think about five is going to have to have wallets 
  that are capable of all the things you would imagine which is you 
  know of did functionality data management credentials 
  authentication authorization and then managing context which dids 
  my using which parties so some of you already working.
Daniel Buchner:  This that's great you know block will be pretty 
  soon wallet it'll be up to 2020.
<kerri_lemoie> Could we get a link to the slides? They're a 
  little hard to read because they're flashing in and out.
Daniel Buchner:  Be capable of doing all these things as well so 
  what is web fives Network topology kind of when we pull that 
  through and to 10,000 feet it's combination of decentralized 
  identifiers and centralized web nodes those can live on user 
  devices and in remote they are not subservient to their remotes 
  they don't trust them for authorization invocations they don't 
  take their word for it they circulate data you know replicated 
  fashion and if you know someone's d i d like in this case a 
  listening booth.
Daniel Buchner:   ABS ID you can look it up by looking at their 
  service endpoints.
Daniel Buchner:  Know how to interact you this is going to be a 
  standard form of DeStorm messaging relay so Bob can ask and send 
  Bob messages Bob Benson Alice back messages.
Mike Prorock: +1 Keri - we can get this (or a version) posted to 
  the mailing list
Daniel Buchner:  What is the stock look like Sophia did talk 
  about web Faisal stack you know its foundations decentralized 
Mike Prorock:  Good I am watching Ted hike.
Orie Steele: -1 To interrupting and not following the process
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I'm going to 
  I'm sorry I'm going to jump in and speak because the queue is not 
  being watched and so things are not happening wait Mike wait Mike 
  Carey just asked if we get a get a link from slides and I would 
  ask the same thing because they are very difficult to read 
  because the style sheet is not conducive to this kind of 
  presentation and then if we could also start to actually look at 
  the questions as they're happening because it doesn't make sense.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): My question 
  to wait until the end of the.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Because I'm 
  just going to phase out based on what's being talked about 
  because it's skipping over a very key question.
Daniel Buchner:  Okay I can get the slide I can get a link to the 
  slides there is actually one this was published by the way on 
  Twitter and Linkedin and our website so there's all available if 
  you go to TV dot website there's there's stuff there I'll make 
  sure to get a link to that stuff you know towards the Earth.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I'm sorry 
  seeking the web is not helpful at this juncture.
Daniel Buchner:  Okay yeah I don't I have to go in and crawl in 
  like look around for it like right now and probably deviate for a 
  few minutes if that's.
<heather_vescent> Daniel, you've lost me too with this preso.
Mike Prorock:  Ted as I noted in the chat we will make sure to 
  post copy of the slides up to the mailing list as soon as they're 
  available so.
Manu Sporny: 
<orie> this hostility is not appropriate
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): And once 
  again that is very difficult to follow when we're trying to 
  follow what is being described on the slides Distributing the 
  slide deck in advance of the presentation as a necessary thing 
  and yes I'm being angry and frustrated right now because that is 
  what could have happened at least hours ago if not days ago.
Manu Sporny:  Lincoln chat Ted I just dropped it in there.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Thank you 
<manu_sporny> /me curtsies.
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks for the link
Daniel Buchner:  Okay so yeah if you look at this from a staff 
  perspective you know with the centralized their Fires at the base 
  do you have nodes or personal data store insert here no we're all 
  going to try and work towards slamming that and then you'll see 
  this DW a model so how do we how do we make decentralize web apps 
  we're going out a little bit but on top is what everything else 
  sits on so whether that's the div version of signal or TV decks 
  or exchange thing we're building everything else just use.
Daniel Buchner:  These components and these pipes and can be 
  built on it so.
Daniel Buchner:  A little bit too like what are DWIs well first 
  probably helpful mmm.
Mike Prorock:  Yeah for a Daniel you good for a quick question 
  before we move on here so saw question in the chat related to 
  differences from solid and I think before we get much further in 
  the stack may be a good point to get it that Ted do you want to 
  ask directly or.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Sure I can 
  ask directly it's not very complex question it's how and where 
  does this actually does this vision of a stack differ from the 
  solid Vision this deck they seem to be almost identical except 
  for the technical technicalities of implementation.
Daniel Buchner:  Yes I think there's a lot of technical 
  technological differences I may be until recently very recently I 
  think it might still not have actually been there they weren't 
  supporting Goods they were going with long failed proposal called 
  what id that's been out there for whatever new 13 14 years some 
  some very long period of time pretty centralized they mostly 
  build on the Federated model so they have a federation concept is 
  generally how they see these things being deployed.
Daniel Buchner:  There's also kind of a lack of replication.
Daniel Buchner:  Location in sync.
<tallted> This explanation exposes significant misunderstanding 
  of Solid.
Daniel Buchner:  At the same level that we're really hoping for 
  it's much more like hey in the just like you have email you're 
  going to have this pod and you know there's a higher degree of 
  trust in enforcement of capability and stuff like that you know 
  the authorization side so it is fundamentally a little bit 
  different on the textile certainly different composition of tech 
  and then a different output features and you know maybe there's 
  some protons I'm not going to I don't know what the cons would be 
  but I do know there are enough differences and features that we.
Daniel Buchner:  I felt that that wasn't a good solution and I've 
  been aware of solid obviously since its Inception.
Daniel Buchner:  You working on.
Daniel Buchner:  Interest prior to it coming to be so not with 
  that team many times very well aware of.
<dmitriz> @TallTed - fwiw, folks from Solid spoke on the DWN 
  calls several times
Adrian_: Would it be possible to dispatch my question as well at 
  this point on the cube.
Mike Prorock:  Sure as long as it's a good one so that we can get 
  through the material.
<dmitriz> so the two communities (Solid, DWN) are not unknown to 
  each other
Adrian_: Well it's a very simple question the the presentation 
  starts out sort of you know clearly focusing on the storage 
  aspects as opposed to the control aspects of a personal data 
  perspective which I think we all agree on and did being a 
  foundational aspect of it which I think we all agree on.
Adrian_:  and so.
Adrian_: I am wondering just as a question of scope while Daniel 
  continues as to whether he envisions they're being separate 
  processor versus controller architectures that are sort of 
  coexistent or co-equal in this web five context or whether one is 
  sub including the other emerging the other.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah I think the typically in the construction 
  of me and for you know the actual resource that the physical data 
  holder of an instance like you might have been since your phone 
  your laptop and leave you up and help them remove right or when 
  on your desk on a desktop great each one of those instances must 
  vow to evaluate the capability and vocations they don't trust 
  anyone else like let's say in a typical model of you were to say 
  okay I've got like some data over here on one server and I've got 
  an authorization.
Daniel Buchner:  You set up some some knowledge of the to have 
  knowledge of each other and once one checks the authorization the 
  other is just sort of a dumb slave to it and says well great like 
  here's data that's kind of antithetical to the model of do you 
  have nodes because they any separation any error gapping of the 
  implementation between data and authorization is a scary Vector 
  so they don't trust each other there's not going to be like oh 
  well I'm calling over here to the data trust me data data storage 
  provider because I said so because you know we have a 
  relationship it's like every deal.
Daniel Buchner:   No do she checks the authorizations so unlike a 
  traditional web.
Daniel Buchner:  You know token-based thing where you know you 
  give a token out to someone that they can do things on the like 
  maybe a server right don't go to that server and they'll present 
  the token or the authorization and they'll put the data and then 
  you have Downstream devices that might read the data and just 
  trust that that all happened very well right just trust it all 
  happened like oh I'm sure that server in the sky checked it took 
  and everything's good any day that they take in is data I should 
  have right deal of nodes or hostile they're very hostile to even 
  each other.
Daniel Buchner:   So if I have a deal of note on my phone and I 
  have one outbound remote there.
Daniel Buchner:  Right they don't just trust each other even 
  though like the debug node remote one that replica checked a 
  capability that was invoked on it by say Alice you wanted to see 
  where inputs and pictures into your data store your local one on 
  your phone would not trust it even though it's in the same ring 
  do you have notes they're yours they don't trust each other so 
  it's yeah.
Adrian_: Okay so it's just I understand so just to clarify then 
  everybody in your model is both a controller and a processor.
<orie> Adrian I think so.
Daniel Buchner:  There's no way to eliminate the trust right I 
  don't we don't want to trust the other nodes yeah sure 
Adrian_: It's a simple yes-no question everybody in your model is 
  both a controller and a processor.
Adrian_: Thank you I'm good thank you.
Daniel Buchner:  Well they don't control you you control you tell 
  them here's the same capabilities to to execute but every but 
  what if the statement is that everyone checks the capabilities 
  against the data so that it's like a triple check right it's not 
  on Ledger it's not watching but it's every single instance of 
  yours performs the same X Okay cool so yeah no problem so to 
  understand what dwa is our first thing to understand pwi so if 
  you don't you're not familiar.
Daniel Buchner:   The term stands for Progressive web app it's 
  another collection of.
Daniel Buchner:  That kind of come together in the browser to 
  produce installable more native feeling web apps and you'll see 
  this in your browser if you kind of like go on certain websites 
  like to remove like leave this one and you can install them and 
  send your url Barrio click this button which side you want to 
  install this web app and you know have its own desktop icon 
  you'll have you know when you open it doesn't have tabs like a 
  browser it actually has themed title bars and windows and all 
  these other things so it feels more like a native app and then it 
  has access to some.
Daniel Buchner:   Capabilities like service workers and some 
  other niceties that help it work offline.
<brentz> /me I'm only familiar with NWAs
<mprorock> /me thinks brent wins the comment contest so far
Daniel Buchner:  And it just feels you know more like an apple 
  experience so what are PW as well for would have DW is rather we 
  want to go from PW is to decentralize web apps and that's where 
  we kind of embed certain D ID and decentralized webnode sdks into 
  a standard service worker that you would use as developer for 
  installing an app and it allows you to ask the users wallet there 
  D ID W for authorization to be able to do interact with certain 
  portion of your data store and then.
Daniel Buchner:   Allows them to actually have this offline 
  user-centric to experience just like they would have.
Daniel Buchner:  Offline did experience with the centralized 
  servers and replicated and locally stored data so it's sort of 
  subbing out decentralized app server model for something that's 
  still hits on all the same apis and allows installable web app 
  standards to work but then augments them with dids and personal 
  data store capabilities so you a few examples were getting 
  towards the end you find a did on the ground you know Alice does.
Daniel Buchner:   She wants to know something about it you know 
  the model you look up the.
Daniel Buchner:  In the service end points you might go to the 
  nerd you request and say Hey you know I want your banking trigger 
  I know the schema for that give me anything that you have of 
  yours that's looks like this I think each other and they would 
  send back potentially a verified credential data format of that 
  Charter signed by someone else recognizes and then she'd have 
  more trust that it's a real bank for us we're building TV decks 
  on top of this infrastructure so what is TV decks other than a 
  series of messages asks.
Daniel Buchner:  Kic animal credential whatever happened whatever 
  the participant demands in this case a bank all they are messages 
  and data sent between debug nodes of participants in this case 
  Alice is sending an ask to maybe some banks and there's some 
  crypto currency exchanges and she's saying hey I got this much 
  this much in USD I want to get some some Bitcoin you know let's 
  let's negotiate this and so that mutation occurs over do abodes 
  another example you know we there's.
Daniel Buchner:  He's got we have several other music apps.
Daniel Buchner:  Little Jack recent photo.
Daniel Buchner:  About how they were kind of doing some really 
  rather ghetto Poland's of data from other you know sources to be 
  able to give you your playlist you know seamlessly least in their 
  app and that's because that's where like a c-minus version of 
  what I hope the world is afterworlds more like hey my music plays 
  distorted me and I could permit I can authorize any app to be 
  able to be my music app on a particular device right so I can use 
  different music apps on different devices and that's really you 
  know an applications kids were going after.
Daniel Buchner:   Last one you know we're all traveling a little 
  bit more know the codes concluding or at least you know not not 
  as crazy.
Daniel Buchner:  And you know all these things these things we 
  get hotel reservations airline tickets car rentals you know 
  dinner reservations all this stuff sort of comes to either our 
  email and we have a centralized provider who snoops over all our 
  stuff and provides this kind of weak itinerary or we do some 
  crazy authorizations for TripIt or a couple of the companies that 
  have been you know ordained as the ones that can do these things 
  and I think it should be a lot better if these things were 
  verifiable credentials or pieces of data stored in your data 
Daniel Buchner:   And you can give other applications any 
  application choose access to be able to render and experiences 
  with help you.
Daniel Buchner:  Oops so these are just some of these cases that 
  we have bro / you know just where we at on realizing this y'all 
  done a great service obviously by getting dudes in VCS are be 
  there I think a lot of the rest of it has to do with some 
  implementation robust implementations of those things and then 
  adding the personal data store piece and getting that DWI runtime 
  ready for developers so that they can use it easily and Bs code 
  and you know just sort of be able to start you know boilerplate 
  for web five apples.
Daniel Buchner:   Looks like so yeah so that's pretty much it.
<tallted> that roadmap is not in the downloadable deck
Daniel Buchner:  You know people talk about identity and what's 
  identity personally I think identities everything everything you 
  do is identity because it defines you right like my shopping list 
  defines me more than my social security number more than more 
  than a lot of things and so when we don't realize that everything 
  in all of these apps is really our identity just sprinkled and 
  helped by custodians and centralized third parties you don't 
  really realize the totality of identity and so I think that 
  that's what God represents its it wants to provide a centralized 
  platform for all of that and.
Daniel Buchner:   All the work you all done.
Mike Prorock:  So let's see Harrison I see you on the queue.
Daniel Buchner:  It's so you know I've been building a platform I 
  think we always have been yeah so here's some links you can go to 
  find out more about what we're doing but that's all again.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you Daniel for the great presentation I'm 
  just curious for the decentralized web know how is that different 
  from like ipfs plus like ceramic.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah so so interesting so we ipfs is a public by 
  default Network there's something called IPS cluster but it's 
  very heavy weight it's Mormon built for if you want to be like a 
  pinning this large pinning service that serves doesn't work this 
  data what I profess really didn't have a good capability for was 
  saying like hey and by default I want to keep all my stuff 
  private right maybe I want to make some stuff problem and we just 
  saw that as you know that's just like table Stakes right we 
  didn't want comfortable with you.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah and some ugly ceramic still might be 
  another can't speak.
Daniel Buchner:  And present day.
<juancho> Great question, Harrison. There is also Spruces Kepler, 
  Verida's VC platform, Fission etc. The IPFS + AuthZ layer is a 
  strong contender :)
Daniel Buchner:  Yourself a couple months but still kind of has 
  this hey it's all it's okay if it's all public which to encrypt 
  some of the things and we projected out to network running can 
  see it and that's that's just wasn't an acceptable foundational 
  assumption for us there are definitely other features that are 
  Beyond I think that there's like messaging inbox style features 
  do you have nodes there are some CRDT affordances and D web nodes 
  replication is a little bit different so yeah it's similar to 
  solid rights like.
Daniel Buchner:   Is are these all personal data stores when you 
  squint sure.
Daniel Buchner:  Like they do have different assumptions and 
  capabilities and now I will say that you know we are actually 
  running an and IP custom node inside of the reference 
  implementation all we really actually rely on our IPL decode X so 
  chunking the data in a way that's compatible with my BFS Block 
  store and I feel D Block store but you don't actually have to run 
  a heavyweight my professors at all to remind you of noted it 
  really is just a data store that's independent now you could Echo 
  out some of your data over the public address not working.
Daniel Buchner:   If you decided to get help.
Harrison_Tang: Yes thank you.
Mike Prorock:  Also my think or he's next let me just verify yep 
Orie Steele:  So you know you mentioned decentralised identifiers 
  and you also mentioned sort of wanting to sort of separate web 5 
  from web three I wonder whether you can just talk about the 
  decentralized identifiers as a component of this system are you 
  looking at networks other than Bitcoin to create you know 
  decentralised identifiers or to interact with the centralized web 
  notes like talk about it more about the openness to decentralize 
<juancho> Yeah would it work with other Sidetrees ?
Orie Steele:  As opposed to sort of being focused on.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah I know that's this is a really good point 
  so none of the stock is is is hardbound a Bitcoin whether it be 
  for currency purposes or for didd anchoring purposes you know the 
  Exemplar being like ion in that sense what we're building in the 
  duodenum reference implementations a pluggable architecture that 
  understands dids in general obviously we didn't you know me to 
  write a plug-in for every didn do so I think there's like 400 
  million now we wrote.
Daniel Buchner:  For did web did key ion and.
Daniel Buchner:  If other people were to extend that 
  functionality but nothing in the entire stack of what five is 
  hard bound to any of these Ledger's in fact there's The Ledger 
  list is that are you can use it within it and is that help.
Mike Prorock:  Yeah in quick follow-on for clarity sake Daniel do 
  you happen to have a good pointer if someone's looking to add 
  support for another did method in is there a Best repo starting 
  place or where should folks be looking to if they're contribute 
  on that.
Daniel Buchner: https://github.com/TBD54566975/dwn-sdk-js
Mike Prorock:  Yeah no it makes total sense awesome Ted.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah let me let me go ahead and put it in the 
  chat the repo know obviously this is still being actively 
  developed so just you know understand that this is still early 
  but you know we think we're going to be done sometime in full so 
  if you want to you know try and get your plugins in there 
  certainly do and then we want to plug in the universe resolver to 
  so if you want to like have that to the side of it you know we 
  don't want to not use that good piece of tech.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Yeah I'm not 
  sure where man who found the length of these shared but the deck 
  that comes from their does not have the roadmap and I don't know 
  if there any other differences between what was on screen and 
  what the deck so.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah yeah I'm not really any differences to 
  roadmap at that point wasn't public a couple months you know 
  month and a half ago we did actually just make the road not 
  public the last Friday so I added it because of that that was 
  also published in our public Twitter for TVD and and our blog you 
  can see a teeny dot website.
<manu_sporny> I got the link from the tbd.website
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): This is this 
  is the sort of thing I mean.
Mike Prorock:  Alright let's get back on topic here and we could 
  take that to the list Heather.
Heather Vescent:  Yeah thanks thanks Daniel is really great to 
  understand what you think web 5 is it seems like this is a very 
  identity data Excel data Centric view of what the future of the 
  web is and that makes me think that maybe web 5 is just up your 
  product name is there like a place in this Vision or the stack 
  like I didn't see like I was actually going to ask you what's the 
  web 5 stock for then you talked about it but I mean if it's like 
  a god.
Heather Vescent:   Op incrementation I feel like there's just a.
Mike Prorock: https://developer.tbd.website/projects/web5/
Heather Vescent:  Seen from what that stock would be like there's 
  a whole bunch of other functionality like transactions 
  infrastructure iot those are just ones I thought I'd the top of 
  my mind like is this web five just your product name for 
  marketing or is this like an aspirational vision of the future of 
  the web but only from an identity data-centric point of view.
Daniel Buchner:  So when I will what I will say is again 
  identities everything right everything in the world's identic 
  very few pieces of data or not identity driven it was either put 
  there by someone at leaves a trail of who it describes them right 
  like like I most your apps I would say your identity apps don't 
  actually contain most of your identity Monsieur it is strewn 
  about Google Facebook like they own your identity that's who owns 
  you so when you bring a Peyote yeah I mean I do we do see this as 
  a vision for what the future Evolution the web can be right not 
  just a product name.
Daniel Buchner:  Knocking put it on his product and that's those 
  never desires just sort of like hey someone came up with the name 
Daniel Buchner:  One point right so someone.
<heather_vescent> Bruce Schneier uses Internet+
<mprorock> fyi https://www.w3.org/WoT/ has some strong potential 
  for integration
<heather_vescent> And tons of people are dreaming of owning the 
  name that describes what the next iteration of the web will be.
Daniel Buchner:  Come up with a different one what I'll say about 
  to give you example Heather iot right certainly this is for it 
  right because you know iot devices have identity the probably 
  have to deprive a backing digital twin that could be a 
  decentralized webnode you might interact with them for a purposes 
  like you go to your door you're going to send the debug node that 
  backs that door lock that has a PID you know and unlock signal in 
  the form of an invocation capability so yeah I know I think that 
  this totally spans just about every application use case you know 
  that you can imagine if.
Daniel Buchner:   Because it at the end when you say data and 
  identity I mean those are the two Primitives that can basically 
  be the.
Daniel Buchner:  If you do look at it and abstract for you.
Daniel Buchner:  So that that is what it do what note is that is 
  that is a deal now.
<daniel> DWeb Nodes are datastores
Mike Prorock: +1 Daniel
Heather Vescent:  Oh yeah okay but Daniel you need like storage 
  to you have got a place where you put that I mean I think it's 
  very nice I think is very naive to like reframe the the internet 
  from an identity perspective I mean like it's genius in some way 
  to but I think it also is a very biased view that leaves out 
  other perspectives that are equally valid that said you know you 
  can run your own.
Heather Vescent:  Acting company the way.
Heather Vescent:  It but I think it is problematic if you're 
  going to put forth an identifier like the web 5 that is 
  aspirational something that's like framing to an order to the 
  community without like getting feedback from the community or I 
  mean whatever it's fine it's your vision that's cool you can have 
  it I got my.
<rodolfo_miranda> is DIDComm  also contemplated in the stack ?
<juancho> The discord is pretty active, fwiw
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah no I get it I mean the weapon people never 
  came to me personally and asked me how they how I felt about it 
  so I don't feel like I need to ask their permission either but 
  but you know I mean that's just how the cookie crumbles in five 
  pieces at this point but I would say that you know it is it is a 
  datastore so like we talked about where's the storage like that 
  is what these do have notes are there not like a light relay that 
  like forgets data they are the datastore the facts your stuff and 
  so not all apps can be built with just pushing data to the user 
  we realize that and obviously like there's some apps.
<juancho> I would like to hear an answer to Rodolfo's question
Daniel Buchner:  Did you heavy computation and massive workloads 
  in the business stuff and they're still going to be clouds I mean 
  I'm not saying.
Daniel Buchner:  Everything's going as do you have known.
Daniel Buchner:  Vast majority of consumer apps I believe can 
  push their data to you and interact with it to more directly and 
  I think that that's that's what we'd like to see is the 
  intelligent Edge and data people coming to you if that makes 
<juancho> I'm somewhere loud tho so won't q+
<tallted> The roadmap in the tweetstream is a graphic ... 
Mike Prorock:  Awesome cool and I keep myself just wanted to ask 
  it because obviously you guys are leveraging some standards that 
  obviously you personally have put a lot of sweat effort into you 
  know both from prior Incarnation and current the you know where 
  are you going from the standard side like how are you handling 
  kind of the you know the website is that just going to you know 
  be a diff thing or is that going to be you know are there other 
  aspect at ietf and or.
Mike Prorock:  W3c from a directional standpoint obviously with.
Mike Prorock:  No going on right now right there there's some 
  standards at you know points there I mean what do you see from 
  that path forward where do you see kind of the openness and 
  philosophy obviously you guys have started very open is that 
  going to be maintained right or is danger down the Google path 
  for right.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah absolutely yeah soon the whole thing me 
  Jack Jack you know his tweets that preceded you know I don't know 
  if anyone saw about a year ago he kind of lamented the state of 
  web his role in sort of creating weird Echo Chambers and stuff I 
  mean he's genuine about that and you know we're trying to say 
  like maybe well put one proposal out there that can restore some 
  of the stuff you know that he certainly doesn't like to see 
  personally so yeah I know it'll continue to be an open.
<mprorock> this is the DWN spec 
Daniel Buchner:  Dinner's wherever people think they need to go 
  I'm not we don't have any sacred cows have any of that stuff so 
  yeah I mean continuing to work and those three standards those 
  big big ones are not the end right like if we really want like 
  five to work if we really want something like this to take hold 
  we're going to need browsers to recognize it we're going to need 
  them to do did relative URL resolution on their own we're going 
  to have to make sure that these the origin model is no longer 
  bound to just DNS right these are huge.
Daniel Buchner:   Judge other things in the standards and you 
  know Industries.
Daniel Buchner:  Going to have to push rocks uphill on so I'm 
  under no you know I'm under no illusions that this is going to be 
  easy or slam dunk anywhere and we have to work really hard and 
  all these venues.
Mike Prorock:  Yeah no awesome yeah because I think you've got 
  the to w3c and then the 1.diff right for DWI ends I think that's 
  the three kind of Corwin's just wanted to make sure that was out 
  on the record there Adrian.
Mike Prorock:  Adrian you're mic up?
Juancho: His q+ said he was going to ask about service and points 
  and I was going to ask about service and void so.
<orie> sadly did:key does not support service endpoints.
Mike Prorock:  Exactly yeah that might be a good one to close on 
  because I know we're coming up on time here and if we can't we'll 
  slip one more in regarding you know VC 2.0 type stuff I think for 
  many but you know any clarification around like actual did 
  service and points or directionality and things you see there 
  because obviously I feel like the did course spec as an awesome 
  start but you know as even noted in some of the fos right there 
  still a lot of work to be done there I mean how do you see that 
  rolling forward.
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah I mean I hope that we someone actually said 
  it got it wasn't maybe wasn't definitely in the minority asking 
  about like hey someone's service endpoint scheme how are they 
  doing did URL addressing like I think getting things like that 
  bit more involved I mean we have a weigh-in the DWI the deed 
  webnotes back that we're doing did relative URL addressing but I 
  don't know that it's the best or great I mean you know there's 
  probably a lot of flush out there so nailing that down would be 
  excellent all the stuff that I've already seen going on VC 2.0 is 
  really really important.
Daniel Buchner:  And sort of evolving things Beyond everything's 
  possible to like an arrow.
Daniel Buchner:  Set of like.
<orie> DID URLs are a jungle.... path, query are really not well 
  defined /used... fragment is the only reliable uri component :/
Daniel Buchner:  Community believes these things are the best 
  things the things possible I think that that would do everyone 
  huge favors in terms of revocations young man who worked on 
  status list and or revocation list as well that's great and kind 
  of just getting the schemes into a narrower set I mean that would 
  be very helpful.
Mike Prorock:  Awesome and Manu I think we've got enough time for 
  you to close this out I'll me you know 2.0 side.
Ted Thibodeau:  True [scribe assist by Charles E. Lehner]
Manu Sporny:  Sure and it in Daniel actually started in the in 
  the last thing I mean you know one of the things I love about 
  Daniel is that he has been very consistent about this vision for 
  the future of the web you know going all the way back to your 
  Mozilla days Daniel which is great right like you are you know 
  one of the you know strong leaders in the community that's 
  pushing towards this future for all of us what can.
Manu Sporny:   We do to help.
Mike Prorock: +1 Manu - how can we help best
Manu Sporny:  Lead the ccg in VC w g is there like we could focus 
  on that would help the detail the the web 5 initiative you're 
  talking about.
<cel> My question was to be about if there is awareness of name 
  conflict of "DWeb Node" between DIF DWNs and 
  https://getdweb.net/#nodes (Internet Archive)
<kaliya_identitywoman> Participate in the DWN working group (it 
  is jointly charted by CCG and DIF)
<orie> How to help web5: read the specs, open issues, comment, 
  open PRs, share on twitter :)
Daniel Buchner:  Yeah I mean I think that the ones we can do is 
  really just getting to a narrow side you know side of like 2 to 3 
  for the things like revocation that are common schemes that cover 
  all the feature need basis like some credentials don't need like 
  you know Subaru cryptographic capabilities like you know just 
  something like a set that everyone can Implement in their 
  libraries would be great like right now we're just trying to 
  cover ground kind of making that known I think getting the did 
  relative URL stuff locked down and saying this is exactly how you 
  do this.
Daniel Buchner:  This will do some wonky stuff because we just 
  didn't really have.
Daniel Buchner:  Your guidance really.
<kaliya_identitywoman> Come to DWeb Camp
<kaliya_identitywoman> ?
<juancho> Props to Oliver for pushing the VC extension registey
<juancho> Ry
Daniel Buchner:  How to do it and then on the on the datastore 
  peace and men are you know this year we're going to do these 
  their ceramic did I mean there's me and there's data stores like 
  like they're rdid Methods at this point and do I know that you 
  have nodes are going to look exactly like they look like in the 
  first iteration put out who knows it's kind of a play it's one of 
  them put to the community right but I think that's the serious 
  component that will hinder this going forward if we don't circle 
  the wagons around one or two probably not more than that 
  constructions of these things.
Daniel Buchner:   Things we won't.
Daniel Buchner:  Sort of the exchange of credentials you know in 
  sort of more nascent flows and we won't get to that data the 
  other side of that data Island that has all the good stuff to 
  kind of not not remove Google and Facebook from the lives maybe 
  that maybe people want to use the services but certainly not have 
  this been too beholden to them and so I really would love focus 
  on that days for peace if possible.
<manu_sporny> +1, very helpful, thank you Daniel!
Mike Prorock:  Awesome well that is a great note to close on the 
  so yeah thanks again for the time really appreciate everyone's 
  engagement contributions the you know will be obviously circling 
  back again next week and that agenda should go out shortly but I 
  believe that as jmf update on some plugfest stuff and things like 
  that is that right Kimberly.
Kimberly Linson:  That is right yeah it's going to be great we're 
  going to get a update on BCE to you as well.
<harrison_tang> Thank you, Daniel, for sharing your Web5 project 
Mike Prorock:  Awesome really looking forward to that and just 
  love and seeing the amount of activity rolling around on all 
  sides especially from an implementation side so thanks again all 
  I'm going to go ahead and stop recording and Daniel thanks again 
  for your time today.
Daniel Buchner:  Thank you everyone for having me I appreciate 
<kerri_lemoie> Thank you!!
<kaliya_identitywoman> come to this event Exploring Web3 identity 
  for decentralized society - 
Mike Prorock:  Recording has stopped.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): If I could 
  have a minute of your time Mike after everybody else has gone.
Mike Prorock:  Absolutely and I was actually going to request the 
  same do you want to hit my cell or.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Here is fine 
  just once the room is closed out.
Received on Wednesday, 20 July 2022 14:48:54 UTC

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