- From: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 17:43:00 -0500
- To: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
- Cc: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>, W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAGJKSNRaNsOJSKY=yaPkj21L31ym3=6=r7908SQB9Ri_g25Opg@mail.gmail.com>
Honestly I don't see the connection between Article 16 and delegation. Mike Prorock mesur.io On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 17:40 Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com> wrote: > I'm not sure what you mean by "direct links" but perhaps the best way I > can explain the human rights angle is to refer to Article 16 > https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights that > states: >> >> Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, >> nationality or religion, have the right to marry... > > > Marriage, in our context, is a legally and socially recognized right to > choose a delegate (spouse), share only some of our policies with > that delegate, and have that delegate recognized as acting on our behalf. > > - Adrian > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:06 PM Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io> wrote: > >> Adrian, >> In that linked post you state: >> >>> With respect to the UDHRs, I would point to >>> 12 (privacy and confidentiality), 13 (anonymity), 14 (limit the reach of >>> DHS and other state actors), 17 (the right to associate with and delegate >>> to others), 18 (associate with and delegate to communities one chooses), >>> 20 >>> (association, again), 21 (secret elections), 22 (anonymity), 23 (trade >>> unions as delegates), 24 (burden of managing decisions in an asymmetric >>> power relationship with the state or with dominant private platforms), 29 >>> (duties to and scope of the community). >> >> >> I think Bob may have been asking for some direct links, as I am >> explicitly asking for now. Basically [citation needed] >> >> Mike Prorock >> CTO, Founder >> https://mesur.io/ >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 4:16 PM Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, Bob. Here are some references to UDHR >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jan/0017.html >>> >>> Adrian >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us> wrote: >>> >>>> Adrian, >>>> You wrote: "Burdening the user to both store and control their >>>> credential using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's *right >>>> to delegate*." >>>> >>>> Could you please explain what you mean by the "right to delegate?" Is >>>> this "right" either enumerated within or implied by some existing >>>> constitution or international document such as the Universal Declaration of >>>> Human Rights? While I certainly agree that there are many things that users >>>> should be able to delegate, I'm not sure how one would argue for an >>>> entitlement to delegate which is so fundamental that one would call it a >>>> "right." >>>> >>>> bob wyman >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:29 PM Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anil, >>>>> >>>>> Here's the beginning and the conclusion that relates to W3C SSI work: >>>>> >>>>> If we do want to change our relationship to technology, I think we’d >>>>> have to do it intentionally. My basic thoughts are roughly: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. *We should accept the premise that people will not run their >>>>>> own servers by designing systems that can distribute trust without having >>>>>> to distribute infrastructure.* This means architecture that >>>>>> anticipates and accepts the inevitable outcome of relatively centralized >>>>>> client/server relationships, but uses cryptography (rather than >>>>>> infrastructure) to distribute trust. One of the surprising things to me >>>>>> about web3, despite being built on “crypto,” is how little cryptography >>>>>> seems to be involved! >>>>>> >>>>>> This is also the point I've been trying to make from a human rights >>>>> perspective: *Burdening the user to both store and control their >>>>> credential using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's right to >>>>> delegate*. >>>>> >>>>> It could also be counter-productive to adoption of our work, including >>>>> "crypto", on standardized digital credentials. One of the places I >>>>> experience this personally is when the vast majority of government agencies >>>>> insist on me providing them with "Release Forms" and do not accept the >>>>> documents themselves. I agree that most private verifiers do accept the >>>>> documents but even they are likely to balk at redacted "presentations". >>>>> >>>>> - Adrian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:34 PM Philipp Schmidt <phi.schmidt@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Moxie’s piece is excellent. I also found the comparison to web 1.0 >>>>>> and 2.0 in Tim O’Reilly’s article useful: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.oreilly.com/radar/why-its-too-early-to-get-excited-about-web3/ >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to read more thoughtful and well argued pro-web3 >>>>>> articles, appreciate links from this community! >>>>>> >>>>>> P >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:28 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@asu.edu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anil: Moxie is the founder of Whisper Systems, acquired back in >>>>>>> Twitter in 2011. Later he developed Signal (the secure messaging app), etc. >>>>>>> A similar critique of web3 was published recently by Jeff Galloway (a >>>>>>> polarizing voice for many to be sure) at >>>>>>> https://www.profgalloway.com/web3/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *e: *pdlong2@asu.edu >>>>>>> Adaptive Learning Library Consultant >>>>>>> *org:* EdPlus/ASU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience >>>>>>> *SNS:* https://www.linkedin.com/in/longpd >>>>>>> <https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 12:06 PM, John, Anil <anil.john@hq.dhs.gov> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given the continuous discussions around >>>>>>> centralization/de-centralization in our community, I found this essay by >>>>>>> Moxie Marlinspike … >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My first impressions of web3 >>>>>>> https://moxie..org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html >>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html__;!!BClRuOV5cvtbuNI!TWHO5okUoNLRfejX8R4fouQNtXHpePRJgCEMSTTdyJyd1YeYLaovlTtxC0oRLOgLPpNr$__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlLhFxxsU$> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> … to have aspects that have relevance to the DID/VC work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you don’t know who Moxie Marlinspike is, recommend doing a bit of >>>>>>> due diligence to find out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anil John >>>>>>> Technical Director, Silicon Valley Innovation Program >>>>>>> Science and Technology Directorate >>>>>>> US Department of Homeland Security >>>>>>> Washington, DC, USA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Email Response Time – 24 Hours >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <image002.jpg> >>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlcTnIC1M$> >>>>>>> <image004.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
Received on Tuesday, 18 January 2022 22:43:25 UTC