- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 20:55:52 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
The transcript for the call is now available here:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-11-21-vc-education/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-11-21-vc-education/audio.ogg
----------------------------------------------------------------
VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2022-11-21
Agenda:
https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Nov&period_year=2022&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Topics:
1. IP Note
2. Call Notes
3. Introductions & Reintroductions
4. Announcements & Reminders
5. JFFLabs & VC-EDU Plugfest #2 & Internet Identity Workshop
(IIW) Recap
Organizer:
Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
Our Robot Overlords
Present:
Kerri Lemoie, Sergey Podshivalin, Sharon Leu, Mahesh Balan -
pocketcred.com, David Ward, Jim Goodell, Stuart Freeman, David
Chadwick, Simone Ravaoli, Julie Keane, Jim Kelly, Andreas
Abraham, Jen Schreiber, Deb Everhart, Kayode Ezike, Nis Jespersen
, Dmitri Zagidulin, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him)
(OpenLinkSw.com), Ryan Grant, Kaliya Young, Colin Reynolds, Ed
Design Lab, Sheri Myrick-ASU, Andy Miller, Snorre Lothar von
Gohren Edwin, Marty Reed, MIke Peck, Phil L (P1), James
Chartrand, Nate Otto, Phil Long, Jeff O - HumanOS, xander -
ASU/Pocket, John Kuo, Geun-Hyung, Phil Barker, Niels klomp, Tim
Dutta, Manu Sporny, Brian Richter
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> :)
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Hello everybody Welcome to the Monday November
21st call or w3c verifiable credentials for Education task force
we meet every Monday at 8:00 a.m. Pacific and 11 a.m. eastern we
go over some boilerplate notes at the beginning and then we will
get into our main topic that will be about Club Crest to I'm
going to be your meeting moderator today my name is Kerri Lemoie.
Topic: IP Note
Kerri Lemoie: And the first thing on our IR on our.
Kerri Lemoie: Is to discuss IP note please know that anybody
anyone at all can participate in this cause however I'll
substitute for contributions to any of the ccg work items
specifically on documentation and standards should be done by
members with full IP our agreement signed you should ensure that
first the you have a W3 account and then you can agree to the
contributor license agreement if you check the agenda for this
call the links for all of this.
Kerri Lemoie: It will be in there as you may know we have a.
Topic: Call Notes
Kerri Lemoie: Scriber and this this robot does the best that it
can to understand us even mumblers like me and I take these notes
for us that we publish so we publish everything including the
audio and potentially video If we have it to a public page and
this is how we have an archive for us to look back on to learn
for and for those who can attend the meetings we do we do Q
everything in these calls to if you would like to ask a question.
Kerri Lemoie: Or or I make a comment just type you.
Kerri Lemoie: In the chat just like I'm doing right now.
Kerri Lemoie: So adieu to the queue I mean type Q - they can
remove yourself from the queue and as we're doing the call we'll
keep an eye on that cue and calling you you know it seems the
best fit so next let's see what we're going to do some
introductions and reintroductions about 20 23 people on the call
today so is there anybody here that is new or who is revisiting
this call would like to introduce themselves.
Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
Kerri Lemoie: Elves and if so just do a q+.
Kerri Lemoie: In the chat and we'll add yourself to the queue.
Kerri Lemoie: New see me do a Q&A question mark in the chat that
is me checking the queue.
Kerri Lemoie: See you in the queue welcome.
Jen_Schreiber: Hi I'm Jen Schreiber I am an engineer software
engineer at work day and got to hear about some of the plugfest
at IW so I'm happy to join in on this call.
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> Hello Jen !
Kerri Lemoie: And worry for mentorship.
Kerri Lemoie: I sent thank you for joining us.
Maury_Shenk_(LearnerShape): Hi I'm Maury I'm founder of a fairly
early stage UK startup called learner shape we build open source
infrastructure for skills and very interested to hear what
everybody has to say joining us.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey one other thing I should note that if you are
paying attention to the robot transcriber on the left side and
you see that it it transcribes the word that definitely is not
the word you could help us along with that by doing substitutions
in the chat and you can do that like this I'm going to type it
try and show you what I mean did you ask for it / wrong word or /
right word and that should later on when the.
Kerri Lemoie: Transcription of publishing.
Kerri Lemoie: Happy place the wrong one with the right one for
us.
Topic: Announcements & Reminders
Kerri Lemoie: Next on the agenda is announcements and reminders
does anybody have anything they would like to tell us about
anything that's upcoming anything they've launched recently new
jobs or anything else that is going on.
Kerri Lemoie: Is there something or would like to tell us
something later feel free to cure yourself in any time and you
can do that.
<sharon_leu> I'm on!
Topic: JFFLabs & VC-EDU Plugfest #2 & Internet Identity Workshop (IIW) Recap
Kerri Lemoie: So what are we get to our main topic which is to
talk about the plugfest don't see Sharon Luan here today Shannon
nope she might join us in a little while we'll get started anyway
oh you are here right here let me give you a link to my slides.
Kerri Lemoie: I will review these.
Kerri Lemoie:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1rT-bWfMHJh_7K6Lj3qKASULP3V4XjHPXnvkVlvJXPZ4/edit#slide=id.p
Kerri Lemoie: Actually turn while I'm pulling up the slides how
about you I call on you just to give us sort of an introduction
to what the plugfest has been and tell us more about it from a
jobs for the future jff perspective.
<jim_goodell> Is Kerri on mute or is it just me?
Sharon Leu: Thanks Carrie and thanks for everyone for joining
today so just a quick overview of my name is Sharon Lou and I
work at an organization called jobs for the future for those of
you who don't know jobs for the future is an organization in the
United States that has been around for about 40 years and we
focus on the question of how do we provide opportunities for
economic advancement for all our research question in the context
of credentials then is what is the role that digital credentials
can play.
Sharon Leu: In that process and we're very interested in the
idea of individuals.
<kerri_lemoie> I was just on mute but I think folks could hear
me... Can you hear Sharon?
<jim_goodell> ...sorry must be me I see transcription.
<julie_keane> Yes we can hear Sharon
Sharon Leu: Learning and working records over the course of a
Lifetime right so what people talk about when they talk about
lifelong learning and managing the credentials that I think that
provide evidence of the skills and abilities that they do have
and being able to share and share these as they pursue further
opportunities so with some funding from the Walmart Foundation we
are.
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks @Jim
Sharon Leu: Hosting a series of in the middle I guess of a
series of plugfest in the purpose of these is to see if we can
make it technical possible to for Learners and workers to curate
their own learning and employment records and in order to curate
their learning and employment records it's necessary for Learners
to have control over these digital credentials to be able to hold
them in to create presentation so we've been taking this we just
finished the second of three.
Sharon Leu: In the first plug vest.
<kaliya> I am dialing in on my phone - and the app there - but I
can’t hear any of you. Mmm
Sharon Leu: Well it's themselves and the credentials the second
one that just happened last week at iiw we looked at the
interaction between wallets and credential issuers and I see that
on the agenda we're going to be talking about the third one but
hopefully we are hoping to be able then to bring the third sort
of leg of the trust triangle into that the verifiers and relying
parties so in that context it is a very it's you know been it's
been great for all of you to be.
Sharon Leu: Part of this.
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Kaliya - I ran into similar (with my mobile
app), try connect in a mobile browser?
Sharon Leu: Been possible without you and I'll just give my
quick hot take is I was actually really impressed with all of the
work that happens not that impressing you should me should be
your goal but I think we a lot of us went into this thinking that
we were presenting a hardship to all of you that it would be may
be difficult for you to find the minimum number of two partners
but what really astonished us was the number of that once
interoperability I think was achieved with one or two partners it
made it infinitely easier.
Sharon Leu: And in the.
Sharon Leu: The chap you.
Sharon Leu: Some other tools to actually demonstrate
interoperability across a large number of the players in the
ecosystem and I know that Carrie you have some slides about this
so I won't get too much into that but I think that is overall my
quick my hot take on this and I will guess turn it back over to
you carry to go through the rundown and if anyone has any
questions put them into the chat and I will chat with you or we
can talk later.
Kerri Lemoie: Awesome thanks Sharon.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to put the slides back up here for you.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay can everyone see my slides okay.
<sheri_myrick-asu> yes
<julie_keane> Seeing only black screen. But all good I have them
pulled up
Kerri Lemoie: I see two of these are sides that have I pulled
together for today I am certain they are not entirely complete
and I'm happy that there are so many of you on the call who are
at breakfast so please feel free to jump in at any point in time
put yourself in the queue and fill in any thoughts while these
slides are online or at the end of the slides we'll have time for
for more discussions.
Kerri Lemoie: Super my IBC igp.
Kerri Lemoie: We love partnering up with Jeff F on this because
it is our Vector really has been to to see that the podcast would
broaden the vendor participation using VCS and dids and in the VC
I do ecosystem and we want to be able to introduce PC wallets and
issuers to Education data standards including at this time it was
open badges 3.0 and and also increase interoperability and I put
this.
Kerri Lemoie: This note in because it's somebody put this in
the notes and.
Kerri Lemoie: It which is the most simplest way to explain
interoperability or itís to let language let's machine speak to
each other this all fits within our Charter BC edgy at the task
force to make be seized and Education data standards more aligned
more useful and any crease adoption and understanding and and I
think as you'll see at the plugfest we you know we scaled this
quite a bit and it was is.
Kerri Lemoie: Really tremendous actually.
Kerri Lemoie: What we did was we focus on these protocols and
the standard we focused on be Capi chappie which we will go into
a little bit o IDC did Combi to and then open badges 3.0 the top
three were protocol are protocols used to exchange and transmit
an issue verifiable credentials or to communicate in some.
Kerri Lemoie: We're another especially.
Kerri Lemoie: Which is a communication protocol a messaging
protocol and then also open badges 3.0 which we've spoken a lot
about in this call with this group because 3.0 actually sourced
from a decision made from this community to work with one edtech2
charter and deliver open badges 3.0 which aligns verifiable
credentials to that standard that is I think if I believe it.
Kerri Lemoie: It is in candidate.
Kerri Lemoie: Final or close to candidate final and and I will
be talking a little bit about that today too.
Kerri Lemoie: Check the queue here great okay.
Kerri Lemoie: So these are the requirements for the plugfest
issuers were required to issue a valid open badges 3.0 credential
to two different wallets and then while that's were required to
accept and display a valid batchly porno from two different
issuers they were all participants are required to use did
authentication and to display a valid open badge 3.0 they're
required to display I required we see fields which I don't have
listed here.
Kerri Lemoie: We're bored.
Kerri Lemoie: Issue an issuance date and proof achievement image
issuer name achievement name achievement description achievement
criteria and then optionally could be issue a logo or any other
optional Magic Properties or protocol specific Fields so we told
folks they could add whatever they wanted to do the open badge
they into the credential if they wanted to but the required
Fields were what we were looking for specifically then we asked
for videos that demonstrated the.
Kerri Lemoie: Assurance and.
Kerri Lemoie: The validation of open badges 3.0 and for the
videos the doesn't list here we ask that issue areas either
submit videos of their platforms issuing two wallets or that
while it's could submit to videos on behalf of those issuers and
as long as all those requirements from it then that would pass
passport was required for their participation I believe some of
this is still being reviewed but I'm demo day what.
Kerri Lemoie: We did was review these videos and and talk
about.
Kerri Lemoie: But their experiences.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't go through I'm whole timeline but you can
see that we started in August and really honestly we started
talking about this at the end of plugfest one which is in June
and then we did the open call in August and through September we
set some deadlines and then the videos were due in November and
demo day was this past Monday on November 14th the day before I
had W in Mountain View California at the.
Kerri Lemoie: Our history museum and we did it.
Kerri Lemoie: I also did it virtually.
Kerri Lemoie: How we communicated during the click best for
through direct emails to participants and we try to encourage if
you see I do you mail list as much as possible and that's what we
did for plugfest 14 for this podcast we decided we would set up
select channels per protocol which seemed to be honestly very
effective for most of the participants I think like some
drawbacks for that first of all they needed to be added to the
slack and then it meant that all the conversations happening.
Kerri Lemoie: Being there were not happening on the BC edu
email list where.
Kerri Lemoie: Benefit but it did give the members each of the
protocols abilities to just really work directly very quickly any
sickness I think another downside may have been that there were
some people who are on only one protocol and they weren't really
seeing the discussions happening on the other calls other other
select channels I mean.
Kerri Lemoie: The demo day they said it was virtual and in
person I'm guessing about 150 attorneys between virtual and in
person might be a little bit above or below that but quite a few
people participated in the day we split it up into basically
three sections including lunch in there so we had demos to
discussions we broke it up into three different protocols and
then we did a debrief and then we had some lunch and.
Kerri Lemoie: Some people stuck the second time for a while
longer even to talk more about ways that we could go forward.
Kerri Lemoie: Man so I'll be the rest of the slides of go into
the rest of the demo day and how we went through this I want to
thank Manu from digital bizarre folks there Who provided some
slides and also we have sides I'm from the oid see crew and I
slow I grabbed a few here just to share what the experiences are
some of you may not have heard of chappie NBC API so I'm just
briefly that.
Kerri Lemoie: Be Capi.
Kerri Lemoie: A any PI that describes endpoints to issue an
exchange credentials and chappy is sort of the the connector the
the browser I'm someone's probably explain this better than I can
but the browser polyfill that makes it possible for wallets to
connect to issuers so it's sort of like the in-between
Communicator between issuers and wallet.
<kaliya> Still can’t here
Kerri Lemoie: And the dish.
Kerri Lemoie: Sorry folks made this great place for you to try
this out called the chappie playground the URL is on here at
chappie dot IO this ended up being immensely useful for many of
our participants because what we were able to do is have those
who had issuing apis and platforms they could connect on the
background in the background to the chap you playground and the
tabut playground could be used to choose the issuer and then
connect to the wallet that the.
Kerri Lemoie: Tester would be a.
Kerri Lemoie: You can see this is a pretty pretty remarkable
list of participants so they were 81 combinations they were
demonstrated not all of these were using and the chappie
playground there are some participants like participate in our
learning economy and DC and others who implemented chappie in
their own system but some many books use the chapter playground
for this so they're 81 combinations demonstrated 17 different.
Kerri Lemoie: Issuers with 14 progress.
Kerri Lemoie: Who just came in from the broader we see API
Community to join in and they're a different wallets five web
well it's and three native mobile apps.
<sheri_myrick-asu> Kaliya play around with sound with the arrow
next to your microphone.
Kerri Lemoie: So these are the 81 combinations that were
demonstrated.
Kerri Lemoie: I will get through this this whole movement
calling at the bingo bingo board but you can see that all of the
different platforms that worked with each other and that of
coordinated with each other either through choppy or through the
playground and this included doing did off too.
Kerri Lemoie: Listen here for a minute.
Kerri Lemoie: Actually before I move on is there anybody here on
the call that's what I want to talk about their experiences with
chappie and be Capi see if you view on here that were plugfest
participants.
Kerri Lemoie: I hope you don't mind but I'm going to call on
somebody.
Kerri Lemoie: All right Julie Julie came from participate may I
call on you to tell you about your experience and we are teens
experience with this.
Julie_Keane: Sure well it was a it was a great experience because
we've been working with a bunch of different organizations that
have been thinking about more about adoption and we're very
excited to jump into something that would experiment with the
wallet we had a developer and created a Sandbox because our
actual learning platform our credentials didn't wouldn't you
know.
Julie_Keane: we're only at the 2.1 spec for open badges so we.
Julie_Keane: Inbox and with the amazing team including carry and
James Dimitri were just incredibly super helpful as well as the
folks at LEF so it was it was really felt very seamless from my
perspective and I know that there was some problem solving but
again given the fastest Sprint it was just a really fun it was
really fun experiment and a really supportive community.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Julie and the participate team so one of
the things that happened was we provided an example badge for The
participants to use and they could have chosen to use that badge
or use one of their own as long as it complied with the open
badges 2.0 spec and participate using actual badge from their
platform to do this and do you want to tell us a little bit about
that badge and the.
Julie_Keane: Yeah sure I mean yeah that seemed really obvious to
me from the beginning that we would create a Sandbox and then
kind of rebuild a badge in the sandbox and we chose black girl
Ventures because they were had been involved with them jobs for
the future New Sharon had been in some of their accelerator and
Mentor program and black our adventures just for background train
black and brown women of color who are starting businesses and
are trying to solve the problem of lack of.
Julie_Keane: of access to Capital.
<phil_t3> I at least can't hear Julie's audio. Don't know if
others have that problem
<kerri_lemoie> Sorry for audio issues that some are experiencing.
Julie_Keane: Structural racism which verifiable credentials
probably can't solve but some of it is also just building
knowledge around ecosystems building business plans getting
access to Banks learning how to talk to Banks and VC all of those
things so this was a learning pathway that black girl Ventures
had developed they've had these credentials available in
participate for a year and a half so they've had hundreds almost
actually 1200 women trained through these learning pathways.
Julie_Keane: and they are using those.
Julie_Keane: The platform but only Bell who is the CEO of lacquer
Adventures immediately saw the possibilities if they could get
pushed into wallets and so that's why we decided to actually use
an actual badge so that we would jump into an actual use case.
Julie_Keane: And so that's what we're trying to really explore
now is what are the next steps for she's very excited to figure
out the next steps like right away she has a lot of energy so
yeah trying to figure that out.
<sharon_leu> ha, julie, no vc's can't solve systemic racism! but
what an interesting tool.
Kerri Lemoie: Excellent as great thanks Julie does anybody else
have anything else they'd like to say about their experiences
with chappie or be Capi.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to move on to the next particle then we
did and also by the way once again feel free to jump in whenever
you'd like to add to this conversation the next protocol is oid
see I did put a link in the slides to the slides that were
provided for oid see because there's some great information in
there about how it works and I think that might be helpful and
actually grab these notes.
Kerri Lemoie: From the sides and with that group did they they
demonstrate interoperability between 9 and dependent issuers and
it while in implementations and this included different
verifiable credential formats different crypto algorithms
different issue identifiers and did methods and also different
holder binding methods different did methods their their bingo
chart looks like this these are their results.
<julie_keane> agreed @sharon and these open tech tools really
provide avenues of access that can def support those fighting the
good fight. :-)
Kerri Lemoie: And here you can see who is connecting to who
issuer and then the wallet.
Kerri Lemoie: David I still try to go see you on here would you
like to talk a little bit about your experience with a pie crust.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes we can hear you go ahead.
David Chadwick: Yes I will try another they're slightly not easy
but we'll see how can you hit the okay okay so basically the the
open ID connecting to in protocol allows the wallet and the
issuer to negotiate which format they're going to use so the
protocol supports I saw mobile driving license format its
support.
David Chadwick: It's JW t.
David Chadwick: Sign proof by publication formats into court
json-ld provide public credentials as well and so some of the
group use json-ld signatures and some of the group is JWT
signatures now course those two don't into work so that's why you
see two tables because of the proof former the different
participants were using as part of the ngi Atlantic project we
wrote a profile.
David Chadwick: File for all.
David Chadwick: That could be made from the very fabrication of
issuing protocol and then everybody more or less use that profile
with slight variations for the cryptographic algorithm and
obviously for the proof performer and it turned out to be very
successful as you can see and it proves that the protocol is
actually very flexible because it will support you know mobile
driving license as well as different forms of our family
credentials I think that's one of the strengths of the.
David Chadwick: Falcon Shores fishing protocol it also.
David Chadwick: Way of authenticating users using the oauth
protocol so that you know who is applying and you know it's not
just anybody can pick up any any particular verifiable credential
but after the authenticator I think that's all I wants a month if
any questions I'm happy to answer.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks David one of the questions I had for you
what words in the challenges you think that this group faced
while implementing for the plug press.
David Chadwick: Yeah the challenges were that different people
that implements a different cryptographic algorithms differently
ID message Etc so in order to be able to interwork different
people have to do changes their implementation but they could
negotiate the same set so in our own particular case we ended up
supporting three different cryptographic algorithms whereas when
the when the plugfest started we could only support one
cryptographic algorithm so that.
David Chadwick: And allowed us to talk to different different.
David Chadwick: And I know somebody else altered idid method to
be able to talk to to ourselves so that was that was on the
experiences of the people involved the also we issued a number of
change requests on the up and idea connect protocol as a result
of the plugfest so that's another positive feedback that the
actual experimental results showed where clarifications or
omissions needed to be made to the open ID draft standard and.
David Chadwick: And those most of those have been Incorporated
all there are still some.
David Chadwick: Issues outstanding and we now we now sort of
addressing issues in the verification in preparation for plugfest
3.
Kerri Lemoie: Excellent thank you David I really appreciate
that.
Kerri Lemoie: Is there anybody that helps to has anything they'd
like to say about about working in this group or their own
experiences with oid see.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay when we move on to the third group here which
was did Cam and I do have to apologize because I didn't have the
slides and time to prepare for this morning I did get them a
little while ago so I put a link to them here in the slide and I
can actually going to put a link to them.
Kerri Lemoie: Chat for you.
Kerri Lemoie:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/11Crv96IqARpwEIes7B0OQwuEvWaN1G1dYMofBXLWWiU/mobilepresent?slide=id.g1926c6e0864_0_1032
Kerri Lemoie: I'm in these slides right here are some videos and
demonstrations made by the did come group they are still working
on some of these implementations but it is is really worth
looking into is a really interesting kind of protocol that is
much newer than the no i.d. see of course and be Capi probably is
the second newest and then did come is the most recent.
Kerri Lemoie: And I'm just going to read.
Kerri Lemoie: Some of the bullets in one of these slides because
I think that you'd like to know these things about did Compass
probably you haven't had much experience with it so did come
messaging tells you how to use your did the sign and encrypt
messages for war one or more other digits with each of the
devices having different keys so it means that they did can send
messages to each other you can declare it usually did point with
the standard semantics you can.
Kerri Lemoie: Has through.
Kerri Lemoie: With high privacy you can verify the sender of a
message you can declare and handle the schema of a message so is
it very very unique way a new way to use the sidelines
identifiers to communicate with each other.
Kerri Lemoie: It is like I said very new and so some of the
software being built for the plugfest was brand new and and it's
still going to be worked on for some time and so I think we will
hear more about that in the near future and I think what's great
about this is that it allowed this group to really see what was
needed to deliver a credentials from one did to another and see
what's needed there and and I think in many ways it Advanced that
work and also brought teams together to work on this.
Kerri Lemoie: Or and all of that is just simply a fantastic.
Kerri Lemoie: Like this even if we were only doing good time for
this breakfast.
Kerri Lemoie: Or anybody here that is in that group that wants
to speak to this.
Kerri Lemoie: This is a much smaller group I think shiny correct
me or to meet you in some when I think there are only maybe four
or five in this group.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I'm wondering if they cease Laura clear I was
wondering if I could call on him to speak to it a little bit.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes nor are you available to do that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I don't see him on here okay so maybe not.
<sharon_leu> That's right. Some of the participants in this group
also tried OIDC.
Kerri Lemoie: I was down here okay.
Kerri Lemoie: Well I would say tuned on this protocol you're
going to hear more about it in the near future and it's going to
it's really very interesting one.
Kerri Lemoie: Three chairs or anything else you'd like to say
about it before I go van.
Dmitri Zagidulin: No exactly exactly the same sentiment you said
keep an eye on this is really interesting it it's an ambitious
protocol that has some really cool communication properties and I
look forward to learning more about it.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I'm to Simoni to have something.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Just something that that is related to
decom as much as they're there wasn't in that same level of
activity in this in this protocol Camp it really felt even in the
internet identity Workshop that did come was very promising and
there's a lot of work going into it as we speak and there's some
kind of excitement to see this protocol.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Philip Moore.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): In fact I pick I picked up at iiw
announcement I think would last day that apparently see Kappa Sig
by is an organization very active in this space out of
Switzerland had donated libraries to did Cam and I think this is
a good signal because did come problem with lack some of the
development tools or even playgrounds or environment that made it
harder to build on it.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): so this is probably a good.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): And in a good signal for the future so
we look forward for more did calm side building in the near
future.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Jimmy chance money.
Kerri Lemoie: Backwards here okay so here the time and so if you
are sightseeing and maybe we can get into a little bit of a
discussion these are some things that I listed as accomplishments
some of you may have many more things to this on the space on
your experiences what I notice is this was that there is a really
an increased experiential understanding of what it would actually
take tissue Beast used to wallet using available protocols.
Kerri Lemoie: Meaning that we talked a lot about how it could
work.
Kerri Lemoie: Um when we actually started developing code and
working with each other and making it happen many cases it was
very seamless because of the tools that some provided and many it
was you know we had other work to do no prep worms you to develop
tools to make this happen learn more about doing signatures we
had one group actually the participate group that develops some
of the some software for Ruby.
Kerri Lemoie: Things that we didn't even have before.
Kerri Lemoie: This is experience understanding as you know once
you try something you learn all sorts of new things and this was
a great accomplishment for this without a pledge fast we wouldn't
necessarily have so many vendors and individuals working together
trying to figure out something that was new to so many others.
Kerri Lemoie: Secondly we.
Kerri Lemoie: Relationships and many of us have been working in
the education credential e the system for a long time and then
many others have been working in the industry see space and did
space for other time and and applied class like this really
brought these groups together and also brought people together
who just had never met and known each other before and now we'll
continue to work together and have a have already set up calls
and meetings going forward and that's an incredible
accomplishment too.
Kerri Lemoie: Thirdly we definitely Advanced the technology.
Kerri Lemoie: We made it more accessible not to say that we
don't have some many more challenges there but we moved it
Forward right we're building upon Giants and we're building and
increasing this and we are making a lot of progress in that way
and that is also something that you do in the short time span
that we really spent on this is incredible and then also we
reveal challenges so we had a lot of hard lessons and we we
learned that what it is we need to think about next we may have.
Kerri Lemoie: I've suspected that before but now we really
understand.
Kerri Lemoie: Of those significant challenges are.
Kerri Lemoie: Before I move on to this when you see if there's
anybody here who would like to jump in on that some money you
first in the queue.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): All right yeah so as I was reflecting
on plugfest I think there have been a few interesting positive
externalities that is things that happened that were unexpected
but they were positive well in some were kind of known but just
to go through a list of things so it was I think one great
outcome here was that you know we really brought together we
showed interop across.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): two different standards development.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): W3c and one attack leveraging open
badges three was just a very delightful way of bootstrapping the
adoption of a new spec and your standard that is coming from one
attack so that was beautiful to see happen the other point was
that in the in the chappie camp what happened is that thanks to
the playground we have seen other players in the chat.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Realize that plugfest was was going on
and so they just jumped in and started to issue of a Majesty who
themselves I think this is an interesting unexpected outcome so
we had actually more participation participation beyond the
court.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Also we introduced the new tools for
collaboration which is slack I think that proved very
constructive in terms of the community self organizing itself I
think that is something that we may want to keep going and
leverage for the future we've also developed an interesting new
set of tools or the playground chappies is certainly a good.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): ample with that lie.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Interrupt but also you know we leverage
work that existed the came from other projects David mentioned
the profile that were developed in the ngi ngi Atlantic project
you know that we're then leverage for plugfest also this plugfest
created the opportunity to provide feedback and so change request
both India the IDC camp but they're also have been issues logged
into the.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): open badges specification.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Great things that I think will advance
the ecosystem going forward I'd say that you know this is and
also last thing I would mention is that as much as most of this
interrupt displayed was in like a safe environment within a
playground environment there are also promising interrupt that we
showed with projects that have you know there are
production-ready in the are.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Particularly one that I'm involved in
is the my creds my credit is this National platform in Canada
where and you know at some point all the post-secondary
institutions are going to issue their digital diplomas through
the platform my credit is partnering with matter and so they
interrupted matter showed in this particular context really
speaks to the you know the possibility of taking this kind of
interpret ability to scale and in practice.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): right away so we're not just.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Or I think we just been this something
that has an impact.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): I think that was kind of my list back
to you Kerry.
Kerri Lemoie: Has a great list thank you Simone E Sharon you
have the floor.
<kerri_lemoie> Sharon_Leu
Sharon Leu: I just have one quick like accomplishment that I
think is really important that I alluded to earlier is that in
education and in Workforce Development A lot of people have been
saying we should allow people to curate their own learning in
employment records and I think that nobody has been able to make
this happen outside of a closed very finite closed ecosystems and
I think that you know the interoperability against Open Standards
in this.
Sharon Leu: Of open ecosystem.
Sharon Leu: Is actually going to be what makes that possible and
I'm particularly excited because this has not been demonstrated
before so separate from the technology but the technology
enabling us to create tools that will I think we think help us
address some of our social impact questions so I'm very excited
about that element and I am done.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Sharon Sharon Mario.
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> woot woot !
Manu Sporny: Thanks so I found I mean the plugfest was fantastic
it was it was really great I think this is one of the it is the
most important interoperability demonstration of this year around
verifiable credentials in dids one thing that was really like
surprising to us in a in a really good way is we got to work with
is.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> bravo!
Manu Sporny: That we had never heard of before and while it's
that we had never heard of before in believe it or not like they
were able to achieve interoperability at least with you no
chappie and the chappie playground they were able to demonstrate
interoperability before we even talked with them like that's a
really good you know positive sign for the direction that you
know these various Technologies are going.
Manu Sporny: Ang in so I.
Manu Sporny: I wanted to stress the like the the notion that we
had organizations that had never worked with this technology
before VCS or dids and they were able to achieve build out and
Achieve build out against the standards and Achieve
interoperability in three to four weeks some of the other
organizations that we know of that's that have been in here for a
long time or able to do that as well and we were able to most
importantly pull in a.
Manu Sporny: A whole bunch of new.
Manu Sporny: Our platforms that demonstrated interoperability
through things like chappie and envy Capi you know ID for so that
that was also really nice to see I'm really excited about like
the next plugfest and how many more you know companies and
wallets and issuers in verifiers that we can pull into the mix
that's it for me.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Martin who is great.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to move on to our next time Malik
beaming over here by that you can't see me because I don't have
the camera on but I know that so many of us are working so hard
on this and it is really just making me so happy that we're all
making so much progress in the space.
<sharon_leu> Thank you, Manu, and Evan, and the others at DB that
worked on CHAPI playground. Would not have been nearly as easy
technically without it!
Kerri Lemoie: These are some of the challenges that we
encountered I'm also these are just ones that I came up with I am
sure there are others that we could add to this list of others
would like you themselves up but just briefly one of the primary
challenges actually we had that was kind of an expensive one that
we're still navigating I think we're getting close to that one
edtech is a the open badges 3.0 contact changes and this wasn't
a.
Kerri Lemoie: Sierra Leone one Ed Tech on their own it was
something that.
<manu_sporny> Sharon, Happy to help! We are dedicated to this
initiative! Really looking forward to the next plugfest!
Kerri Lemoie: Didn't really occur to all of us because we hadn't
really operated together I'm in this kind of a coordinated way
before but what happens is json-ld uses something called the
context file that contains URLs and terms and the terms and the
URLs linked to information about those terms and if there are any
changes to those terms of the you or any added taken away or the
URLs are changed then it can cause some.
Kerri Lemoie: Some mismatches between issuers and wallets.
Kerri Lemoie: And this is.
Kerri Lemoie: Because it's being platforms either load in the
context prior to issuing or some of them cash it so they had Lou
loaded loaded a previous version and issued a version of she's a
badge with that version cash then when it went to the wallet that
wallet was reading say more current version of or newer version
of the context or even a much older version there would be a
mismatch.
Kerri Lemoie: In this good Constitution signatures and so our
participants were tracking down these these issues right there
they're wondering why are we having all these signature errors
what could it possibly be spend hours and you're trying to
diagnosis until they checked it back down to the context file
because you know of course like you know diagnosing crypto errors
can be can be a challenging thing and so it took a while to
figure that out open badges the kind exile for open badges was
reverted.
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Can't speak on mic to it, but the 1EdTech
workgroup talked about the context changes at meeting on
Thursday, understands the issues, and is within a day or two of
being able to commit to a really stable context. Maybe with one
more well-reviewed-and-socialized change as the spec goes
final-final around February. This community should be aware of
that timeline. Now: context becomes quite stable (and wrists
slapped for a little bit of uncautious behavior this fall);
February: final-final.
Kerri Lemoie: Where most of us were using that context file so
it's still cause some problems but it alleviated most of them and
now there are discussions going on about what those updates will
be going forward because there still will be changes since it it
is not a final spec yet so yeah we're in conversations about that
and I can put a link in the chat and a little while for an issue
that is listed in the GitHub repository where you can take a look
and.
Kerri Lemoie: Make some comments in there if you have any
thoughts to that.
Kerri Lemoie: And the next one was I we had a discussion about
who the issuer is and the assessor for an education credential
because it could be that a platform or or another body is doing
the signing of the credential on behalf of the assessor so they
may not always be the same same bodies and we knew that would
that would be an issue so that came up a little bit in our
discussions at plugfest we all know that you know user experience
is something.
Kerri Lemoie: We need to work on it.
Phil Long: +1 To Nate's comment on context file status
Kerri Lemoie: Really talked a lot about how we need to bring
more users in you know we are technologists in groups we are all
working on this technology but we're not doing enough user
research and we need more of that in the space some actual
experience so that we can translate that into better usability
and then lastly on my list is trust Frameworks we talked quite a
bit about what those are in the space with this could be how you
know we need verifiers.
Kerri Lemoie: To know that the issuer's actually have the.
Kerri Lemoie: I want to say permission but Authority or what
have you to issue these credentials and what that means in
various contexts and so that led to some other great
conversations that are going on in the space about that.
Kerri Lemoie: Type in the queue the queue is empty but I'm sure
there are others who may want to speak to other challenges that
they experienced that I did not hit yet.
Manu Sporny: Yeah one of the challenges that that we hit was
just communication in the plugfest and I don't think this was we
couldn't have predicted the amount of like positive like the
number of people that were going to participate but we found that
a lot of our time at least digital bazaars time was spent kind of
communicating with various implementers and trying to get them
kind of aligned with what they.
Manu Sporny: Were doing and in some.
Manu Sporny: Trying to like teach them DCS and Ed's as things
were happening we think like the bulk of that is over but there
is this like in by in communication problem the slack Channel
helped with it a bit but I don't know how we can improve that you
know in the next go-around I think one of the challenges was
making sure that we had email addresses.
Manu Sporny: The kind of the I don't know managers or Executives
at the company in and the people that were implementing like it
felt really important to have those two people in any contact
that we were doing and some of the challenge was just getting
that information from the the companies that were involved like
we need to talk to you about a technical thing who do we talk to
about that we had to kind of discover that as we went so for the
next plugfest it might help.
Manu Sporny: Have a you know business contact or managerial
contact in primary technical contract contact for each
organization in case you need to like reach out and have a call
with them or an email discussion that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Maya makes sense.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay we are nearing oh sorry I see that somebody
you are in the queue.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Yeah just to offset - comment in terms
of of the demon digital bizarre women going above and beyond you
know man who spoke about the the level of say coordination that
we took for for his team to build and to participate they really
you know went above the requirements and.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): and because of the.
Manu Sporny: +1 That's great to hear, Simone! :)
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Work that they put in we've heard
comments from participants saying exactly the opposite that in
fact it was very easy for them to coordinate and through the
playground they almost did not even know who was playing or or
interacting with them because that particular you know tool made
it very easy for them so they just could focus on the code and on
the coordination so again great great work on the.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): digital bizarre team thanks a lot
model you made.
<julie_keane> @Manu that def helped with our project (having a
tech lead and a bus lead). I organized and made sure that tech
folks had stand ups when needed.
Simone_Ravaioli_(VC_EDU): Very easy for others I do you invested
a lot alright.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah agreed thank you so much I had Dmitry.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yes I wanted to bring up for I think our main
challenge now is what to do for the next block past because we do
you have an extra plug that's coming up and so we've we've done a
couple of the really heavy lifting but the first first to plug
paths and then we've got a couple of options from which it does
we have some really good arguments from some of the implementers
that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: This should be pics carefully because.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Participating about this isn't it's very
expensive for front of the mentor and then we want to keep that
in mind so.
<manu_sporny> Verifying! :)
Dmitri Zagidulin: We're going to have and Sharon will say more
about this but obviously we're going to continue having
conversations on this I wonder if it makes sense or particular
we're too close to the time to hear ideas from the crown but I
just wanted to put it on the table into everyone's head start
thinking about the next one all right except it.
<sharon_leu> Most details of Plugfest 3 are TBD, including date,
context of interop, etc.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> exchange of meaningful
data/payloads
<julie_keane> Oh you found it!!! Nice
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I mean I think we do have time we have a few
minutes of folks went to stay on and talked about that before we
do this briefly I want to tell you that next steps we are going
to publish a list of the participant videos and we're also we
have a video from the demo day from RingCentral that is a pretty
huge and it's videos so we're processing that and trying to
figure out the best way to distribute it and also I don't have a
bullet on here but we were talking about how to do education
effort.
Kerri Lemoie: It's at least a Jew that I would love to pick up
that topic and a future call soon.
Kerri Lemoie: With that why don't we open it up to discussion
questions and yeah ideas about what the focus for blood class 3
should be exact yourself up we have a couple minutes left where
we can do that.
Kerri Lemoie: My name I will call on you please to verifying.
Manu Sporny: Yeah so verifying right it's the it's the kind of
feels like the obvious thing that we need to close the whole Loop
to demonstrate a full and and flow so it would you know and it
feels it feels like we're ready to do that at least you know with
the the chappie playground and be Capi and that sort of thing so
it would be nice to have the Third plugfest.
Manu Sporny: Have some aspect of verifying.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Nick you're next.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Plus 12 that I'm verifying seems like the
next step in the round trip of a credential we've gotten it
issued in the right format and plugfest one we've gotten it sent
to the wallet and plugfest to and now may be time to send it from
the wallet on to the next step in its journey and then you know
like subsequent to that I think you brought up trust Registries
previously there's a lot of questions about like what does it
actually mean how do we rely on to understand what a credential
means but I think prerequisite to all that.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): that is actually getting.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): System that will verify it and try and start
that process of making sense of it thanks.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Nate and David I believe your last Nike
you see you can close us out for today.
Kerri Lemoie: David a speaking we can't hear you.
Kerri Lemoie: David Chadwick sorry.
Kerri Lemoie: All right fortunately we can't hear David to do
it.
David Chadwick: Sorry I'm working on my yeah I'm working on
mobile phone and it's different to laptop and finding the
microphone was a bit difficult so yeah so I just wanted to report
to the group that is part of the NGO Atlantic project that we're
running at the moment which finishes at 1st and December we're
now starting to do verification test so I can tell you the
roadmap that we are planning over the next couple of weeks that
God is first of all a simple verification where a request is sent
from the.
David Chadwick: Lying party to the.
David Chadwick: Late and the wallet produces a very powerful
presentation that makes that request and we are proposing to use
the disk presentation exchange specification for that to specify
the the vocab or presentation and then after that simple one
we're going to introduce trust Frameworks and we're going to do
that in two steps One is using the train trust framework which is
which was a product of the ssf lab set of projects in Europe by
frown.
David Chadwick: Hopper and so we're going to put.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thanks all, congrats on huge
plugfest success!
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges context versioning issue (your
comments welcomed. Will meet about it next week on Thursday):
https://github.com/1EdTech/openbadges-specification/issues/497
David Chadwick: Both sprucing ourselves into that trust
framework and then we're going to if time permits use gain now
for those who don't have not heard of gain gain is another
project of the up and I open ID for foundation and that is
looking at connecting different trust Frameworks together because
it's recognized that there are many different trust Frameworks in
existence in the world in the academic community and in the
commercial world and again is trying to plug them all together
and it has a model for plugging them all together.
David Chadwick: And this is to use a new draft standard from
the open ID foundation called.
David Chadwick: A federation and so we're going to try and do
that and if we manage to do that it means that any anybody from
any Federation if they support gain should be connection be able
to connect on a global basis with anyone else so that's what
that's what we're proposing for verification.
https://ngiatlantic.eu/
<colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> THANK YOU ALL
Kerri Lemoie: Now that's fast and David thank you very much for
sharing that that's it for our call today hope you all have a
great week for those of the u.s. who are celebrating have a Happy
Thanksgiving grateful for all of you very much take care.
<julie_keane> Thanks all!
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> :wave:
Received on Thursday, 22 December 2022 20:55:52 UTC