[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2022-12-13

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:


W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2022-12-13

  1. Introductions and Reintroductions
  2. Announcements and Reminders
  3. Status of Work Items
  Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
  Our Robot Overlords
  Harrison Tang, Kimberly Linson, Jeff O - HumanOS, David Chadwick, 
  TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Mike Peck | 
  Ed3 DAO, Greg Bernstein, Leo, Manu Sporny, Orie Steele, Phil L 
  (P1), Nis Jespersen , Erica Connell, Matthieu Collé, Keith Kowal, 
  Gregory Natran, Joe Andrieu, Julien Fraichot, Phil Long, Will, 
  David I. Lehn, Kayode Ezike, Kaliya Young, Brian, Marty Reed, 
  Mike Prorock, Steve Magennis, Shawn Butterfield, Brent Zundel, 
  BrentZ, Dmitri Zagidulin, Lucy Yang

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Doing that right now.
Kimberly Linson:  Of course when you did that I got kicked out 
  did anybody else get kicked out or is it just me.
Harrison_Tang: I think just you.
Kimberly Linson:  All right well I'm back it said do you want to 
  rejoin and I said yes alright so hi everybody this is our last 
  meeting of 2022 and I don't know this is the time of year 
  Harrison and I were sort of talking for everybody came on where I 
  really like the opportunity to to do a little bit of reflection 
  at the end of the year and then start to think about kind of you 
  know what is next year going to look like and so that really is 
Kimberly Linson:   What today is about is taking a little bit of.
Kimberly Linson:  Time to talk about what we've been doing over 
  the last year and as I've been preparing for this this morning I 
  kind of got like a little excited about all the things that have 
  happened this year and just I think the momentum around 
Kimberly Linson:   From what I hear from.
Kimberly Linson:  All of you it seems that way to me but I hear 
  you Echo it that it's there's a momentum here that is new and 
  exciting and I definitely think 2023 has a lot in store for us so 
  that's what we're going to talk about in a few minutes and but 
  let me run through our housekeeping items you know I just a 
  reminder about the code of ethics and professional conduct I’ll 
  take a stealer.
Kimberly Linson:  From my slide and say I actually feel like you 
  know over the last several months you know I think at the 
  beginning of when I started we were kind of having a conversation 
  around how do we really be respectful and I feel like we've 
  really actually been doing a great job with that and how I am 
  enjoying really how the list is working and how we're able to 
  communicate on that list and so well done but also let's keep.
Kimberly Linson:   Continuing to keep that in.
Kimberly Linson:  Mind and really remember that we're all trying 
  to achieve the same goals the IP note is here in the agenda we 
  welcome anybody to participate in these calls if you are going to 
  contribute substantial work then you need to go ahead and join 
  and sign that contributor license agreement we keep notes for 
  this call and and minutes and a recording so that you're able to 
  go back and review it which I think is a.
Kimberly Linson:   Really helpful I know I missed a.
Kimberly Linson:  Couple that I really was excited about and so 
  having that record in addition to providing us with documentation 
  of what we're doing and what we're working on also gives us the 
  opportunity to to revisit things that we might be interested in 
  and so now I get to come to the time where I'm looking for 
  introductions and reintroductions if you're new to the community 
  we’d love to hear from you and welcome you and if you haven’t.
Kimberly Linson:   Even been here for a while we'd love to 
  welcome you back.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Kimberly Linson:  Anybody want to join the queue for that if you 
  want to you can just type Q+ and I will call on you or Harrison 
  will call on you someone will call on you.
Kimberly Linson:  All right no no one is going to introduce 
  themselves today how about announcements and reminders.

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Manu Sporny:  Hi couple of just end of the year announcements 
  there are going to be there's going to be at least one more work 
  item probably presented around verifiable issuers verifiers 
  possibly in the next couple of weeks so just a heads up to 
  everyone to keep an eye out for that on the mailing list and 
  that'll probably be followed by just a work item requests and we 
  expect to.
Manu Sporny:   Kind of kick that work off.
Manu Sporny:  Early next year it has a lot of overlap with the 
  trust Registries work that's being done at ToIP and all that kind 
  of stuff and all these groups are more have been coordinating so 
  that's kind of exciting for the new year as a work item also this 
  week the status list 2021 spec that this group’s working on is 
  expected to be you know up for a vote on whether or not we're 
  going to pull it into the verifiable credentials working group so 
  just a heads up to the chairs that we may.
Manu Sporny:   Need to push some buttons to get a final community 
  group specification published for that item.
Manu Sporny:  And I think that's largely it.
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you Kaliya.
Kaliya Young:  I just wanted to share again about the APAC event 
  that were pulling together March 1 to 3 in Bangkok Thailand it's 
  inspired by IIW but it's called the APAC digital identity 
  unconference and yeah so that's my announcement thanks it 
Kaliya Young:   Have I’ll send I’ll share.
Kaliya Young:  A link to my save the date notice we don't have a 
  site up yet.
Kimberly Linson:  Perfect thank you David.
David Chadwick: Just a heads up that I’m currently just talking 
  with Mark … who chairs the IDA Working Group within the Open ID 
  Foundation which is an identity assurance primarily designed for 
  banking finance but to give high assurance and we’re looking at 
  how we might incorporate this as an evidence field in verifiuable 
  credentials. At the moment, we haven’t decided whether the issue 
  will be a work item proposed to this group or to the Open ID 
  Foundation, but just a heads up if people are interested in that, 
  give me a nod, thanks
Kaliya Young: 
<manu_sporny> David, very interested in that!
Kimberly Linson:  Great you're right on the theme for today 
Harrison_Tang: Yeah just a quick reminder we won't have meetings 
  next Tuesday and Tuesday after that and will resume the first 
  week of January and I can send out the w3c ccgi meeting calendar 

Topic: Status of Work Items

Kimberly Linson:  We Harrison has been working really hard on on 
  the education Tuesday calls and we have some great things lined 
  up in the in the New Year I'm really excited about the topics we 
  have coming okay I am going to move us to our main topic which is 
  really to talk about the work items and I took a minute to 
  prepare some slides and I'm gonna try to share them.
Kimberly Linson:  Did I do it are you seeing key accomplishments 
  oh good phew I will put the link to to this in the chat when I'm 
  finished but I just wanted to take a minute to kind of again as I 
  said that the beginning.
Kimberly Linson:   Reflect on what's happened.
Kimberly Linson:  This year and I really like stats and it took 
  me a minute to figure out I am not a GitHub Wiz and so some of 
  you may have a better way for me to do this because I wasn't 
  actually able to do just this year this is these are the stats 
  for for everything that is on GitHub but I was kind of Blown Away 
  that we have 112 repositories that are a part of the ccg they're 
  written in six languages.
Kimberly Linson:   886 Issues 420 forks.
Kimberly Linson:  That seems like a lot of work that's been done 
  as a part of the ccg so that's kind of one one area where I feel 
  like we have done an incredible job this Tuesday call over the 
  last year as I looked back and saw the the various topics like 
  the nft identity the digital wallets did actor all the things 
  we've done around plugfest the protocol match we've had some 
  incredible topics and I know I I for one have.
Kimberly Linson:   Learned an incredible amount over the last 
  year and I think the conversation.
Kimberly Linson:  On the list as I mentioned earlier has been 
  really interesting and moving the work forward which is great one 
  of the things that I feel especially pleased about is that we 
  really have Incorporated some new member onboarding if you're not 
  a new member you don't know about this but if you have joined 
  over the last year then you have gotten a welcome email with a 
  link to a presentation that gives you kind of just a sense of 
  what it is that we do here.
Kimberly Linson:   And I think that that has you know this this 
  community has been.
Kimberly Linson:  Growing very very quickly and I think having 
  that in place will help us to get more folks who are actively 
  contributing just in my stats I wanted to sort of pull this up 
  this this was interesting to me the different languages and then 
  you can see these these work items that have been a focus for us 
  traceability signatures VC API just how much work.
Kimberly Linson:   Work has been done.
Kimberly Linson:  Over the course of time that this event just 
  item has been active and again congratulations to everyone this 
  is a this is a lot of work and so and the work specifically so 
  now I'm going to stop sharing for a second and I've asked some 
  folks to come and share what they've been working on this year 
  and in these work items and so let me look down my list here and.
Kimberly Linson:  I'm just going to call on you and if you want 
  to kind of jump in and put up put yourself on the Queue and then 
  we're it will definitely be inviting everyone from the community 
  to be a part of this conversation but let me just go ahead and 
  Tobias are you on.
Kimberly Linson:  I don't see him yet all right and how about 
  Manu you're going to help me out by volunteering to go first.
Manu Sporny:  No problem so I think there's some really 
  interesting things that we've accomplished this year Kimberly if 
  you know the the stats that you showed are great right I mean 
  it's great to see that much engagement across multiple different 
  work items you know we are now as a group I think like wait well 
  over 500 members.
Manu Sporny:   And we're having to have.
Manu Sporny:  Multiple calls per week out of necessity like we 
  have so many you know parallel work items that need dedicated 
  calls and in those dedicated calls there you know between you 
  know 10 to 18 extra people per call that's happening vc edu’s 
  like huge now right it keeps gaining momentum and in in size and 
  the number of things they're working on Traceabilities you know 
  got some really solid you know engagement week to.
Manu Sporny:   Week and are you know.
Manu Sporny:  Generating enormous amounts of you know content in 
  their vocabularies and specification so I think it's like really 
  neat to see the community fan out like we really fanned out this 
  year into multiple parallel work items I wanted to share really 
  quickly like where we were at the beginning of the year so at the 
  beginning of the year we didn't know if decentralized identifiers 
  were going to be allowed to be a global standard you know a w3c.
Manu Sporny:   Like we were right in the grips of being 
Manu Sporny:  Locked out from the last stage and there was a lot 
  of disagreement about how to you know proceed and there were some 
  failings when it came to w3c process that made it last really 
  long time and because of that it put all the verifiable 
  credentials work in danger like we couldn't recharter that and 
  you know in hindsight we can look back and go oh yeah we totally 
  made it past that like decentralized identifiers are a global web 
  standard today. Full stop
Manu Sporny:   It exists because of the work that we did we made 
  it past.
Manu Sporny:  That what seemed back then to be this thing that we 
  may not survive like that spec might not survive that but today 
  we know it did in the verifiable credentials 20 work has now been 
  chartered like we didn't even predict that for whatever reason it 
  wasn't even on here on our kind of Standards roadmap but we're 
  well into that work now that was that Charter was approved during 
  the summer.
Manu Sporny:  So just that in and of itself is I think a huge 
  accomplishment for this community and getting decentralized 
  identifiers 10 done and shipped in getting a verifiable 
  credentials 20 Charter done in and now you know we're very much 
  in the throes of that group in getting things moved forward for 
  those that haven't seen this the every I try every year to try 
  and capture the work items that.
Manu Sporny:   This group's kind of involved in.
Manu Sporny:  And you know we in and so if you look at the years 
  this is like 2024 and we're here right now right at the change in 
  2023 and there are things that we were not necessarily predicting 
  to go standards track that are going standards track now like 
  credential status list 2021 this week is supposed to be discussed 
  to go straighter standards track we weren't expecting that to 
Manu Sporny:   Until 2024.
Manu Sporny:  Basically the credential Handler API we just had a 
  really great call yesterday with like Google and Mozilla and 
  Microsoft you know browser teams on the line this community 
  showed up in a big way there like that was a 43 person call their 
  their usually calls are usually not that that big and there were 
  lots of people from the community that were participating.
Manu Sporny:   Rdf data set canonicalization.
Manu Sporny:  Is on the standards track right now there's an 
  active working group and that work you know largely came from 
  this group data Integrity same thing Json Webb signature 2020 and 
  then of course there are a variety of other things that we are 
  still kind of looking at so lots of stuff transitioned onto the 
  standards track this year and I think that's something we should 
  definitely be happy about and celebrating and on top of that 
  there was.
Manu Sporny:   Interoperability plugfest the jobs for the future 
  interop plugfest.
Manu Sporny:  That got like a ton of organizations demonstrating 
  interoperability with the technologies that we've built here over 
  the years and that was no small feat like they were a lot of 
  companies that were involved in that interop plugfest and not all 
  of them are listed here right there's a there's a another group 
  you know that was that was involved there so like huge gains made 
  and them actually demonstrating real interoperability out in the 
  out in the open this year so I think we should be.
Manu Sporny:   Really really proud of.
Manu Sporny:  You know what we've been able to accomplish and and 
  I wanted to underscore how what an amazing job the chairs are 
  doing in this group like there it used to be like before kind of 
  this year I mean you know in the past it was hard for us to kind 
  of predict like what are we going to be talking about next week 
  or the week after that in you know our chairs today we have 
  things like planned out into like February of next year right.
Manu Sporny:   We have never really been in that position in.
Manu Sporny:  The past and so you know kudos to the chairs who 
  are doing an amazing job finding seeing what's on the horizon and 
  inviting people in to speak about those things so that we can get 
  you know more work items and more work done in this community 
  that's it for now.
Kimberly Linson:  Thanks manu I think it's a it's a testament to 
  how like much excitement there is around this world that there 
  are so many I mean we're coming to the point now where we're like 
  okay well we got to really consider like what what what do we 
  have time for because there are so many great great Concepts and 
  things to learn about to thank you Joe do you mind if I put you 
  on the spot next.
Joe Andrieu:  Can you hear me now you can I wasn't prepared to 
  say anything but I guess you know I want to Echo Manu’s Point as 
  a past chair of this group you know we did live hand-to-mouth 
  with regular weekly meetings say hey what are we going to talk 
  about this week and sometimes we had great stuff and sometimes we 
  didn't so I do appreciate that the current leadership has put 
  some systems in place and some processes so we have some 
  visibility which lets people plan you know whether or not to 
Joe Andrieu:   I think the most interesting work that we’ve seen.
Mike Prorock: +1 Joe and major Kudos to Kaliya
<manu_sporny> Yes, definitely -- Kaliya and Lucy's work is making 
  a huge difference!
Joe Andrieu:  In this last week I'm sorry this last year I want 
  to highlight Kaliya’s work with the state of California I think 
  that really has been an amazing shift in sort of the muggle’s 
  awareness of how this these Technologies might actually change 
  real business and governance processes so I think that's my big 
  highlight even though it's not something I worked on that's what 
  I would mention.
Kimberly Linson:  It's a great one and I completely as a muggle I 
  completely agree Mike.
Mike Prorock:  Such common name I didn't I.
Kimberly Linson:  Yeah I know it's you I mean I gave you I told 
  you I was putting you on the spot first thing I didn't so.
Mike Prorock:  No I mean number of things I mean you know one I 
  do want to really give a big kudos to you and Harrison both I 
  mean it's been awesome to have kind of a core group that can like 
  continually stay in touch ask questions plan things out to engage 
  with different aspects of the community like we all know 
  different people kind of throughout the community and go okay 
  what's going on what's actually happening what's happening on the 
  mailing list how should we line.
Mike Prorock:   Stuff up and to do that well in advance has been 
Mike Prorock:  It's also given us a good ability to go engage and 
  say and drive other people to be interested in the ccg that 
  otherwise really would just be off doing business stuff right 
  which is cool like it’s important but this cross-pollination I 
  think is really key work item and stretch out stuff has been big 
  right a one of the things that is constantly on my mind 
  especially over I would say the last 90 days and obviously we've 
  talked about it as.
Mike Prorock:   You know chairs.
Mike Prorock:  Is well what is the evolution going on with ccg 
  now that like oh VCS and dids are both the thing we weren't sure 
  that was actually going to happen and it happened and obviously 
  we're still you know working on enhancements and incubating stuff 
  I I great cases like status list is going to be critical right to 
  go get involved in some way and get actually get standardized 
  it's a an essential function but what does that mean for what's 
  going to happen for the future of ccg and what.
Mike Prorock:   Topics are going to come up and.
<kaliya_identitywoman> Thanks Joe!  The SB786 passing was part of 
  the Verifiable Credentials POlicy Committee under BAC - We have 
  new leadership at the Blockchain Advocacy Coalition - and 
  considering how to build on the success of SB786  for next year 
  and looking for additional coalition members - 
Mike Prorock:  Then what is going to be the major work items 
  right and we're seeing some of that evolving now and that's 
  interesting to watch it's also interesting to me to think about 
  okay how can we as chairs support and how can we be there for the 
  community to help promote things that are going on and bring 
  special topic calls up you know kind of as appropriate and as 
  things are going on like you know the kaliya work with.
Mike Prorock:   You know California and you know.
Mike Prorock:  Items like hey let's go look about how to 
  integrate this stuff into browsers right these are these are all 
  really really critical important things and I think kudos to the 
  community for doing all the legwork so we're here to support and 
  Bug us if we're doing something wrong none of us all of us have 
  thick skins none of us will get hurt if you tell us we're idiots 
  like we're here for you as much as we can be and you know like 
  that feedback from the community so just thanks everyone.
Mike Prorock:   For being here and continually showing up and 
  doing the work and moving stuff forward so.
Kimberly Linson:  Thanks Mike Orie what have you been up to this 
Orie Steele:  Mostly working on the traceability vocabulary and 
  the API.
Orie Steele:  I think those are the only items I've been actively 
  contributing to that I can recall in recent memory.
Kimberly Linson:  Do you mind doing everybody kind of an update 
  on where they're at.
Orie Steele:  Sure so as part of the vocabulary work we have been 
  exploring ways of managing json-ld contexts and Json schemas 
  together there's some tooling that we built a while ago that 
  we're still using that supports generating a json-ld context from 
  a folder of annotated Json schema.
Orie Steele:  Since we’ve been using that I thinks Spruce has 
  released a similar sort of themed tool called tree ldr which is a 
  different language but helps accomplish the sort of similar 
  objective as part of that vocabulary work we spend a lot of time 
  looking at what's the Json schema shape what's the json-ld rdf 
  shape and can we improve both of them in a way that it's obvious 
  and easy for maybe.
Orie Steele:   Contributors without a lot of.
Orie Steele:  Experience in rdf data modeling and at the same 
  time are there components of rdf data modeling that we really 
  ought to be paying more attention to and that can improve the 
  consumption and experience of verifiable credentials that make 
  use of some of these more advanced semantic data modeling 
Orie Steele:  Another part of that vocabulary work that we've 
  been fairly actively involved in is sort of looking at what we 
  call traceable sort of presentations and workflows so that's a 
  cedar series of verifiable presentations between parties where 
  you have you know maybe party a presenting a series of 
  credentials to party B they might make those they might present 
  all those credentials at once or they might present you know the.
Orie Steele:   First two and then.
Orie Steele:  Depending on the result it might then present 
  additional credentials later on so how do we think about so if 
  series of presentations between parties series is of issuance and 
  verification and presentation across supply chain parties and you 
  know when we think about data exchange using the verifiable 
  credentials data model what are the requirements that a verifier 
  would need you know before given workflow is complete so we've 
  done a lot of modeling around.
Orie Steele:   That sort of scenario for.
Orie Steele:  Our supply chain workflows another area that we 
  spent a lot of time on has been interoperability testing credit 
  to measure for their work on the traceability interoperability 
  profile which is a subset of the trade the VC API but has some 
  really awesome testing infrastructure capabilities where we can 
  register once and then do automated cross testing if these 
  beautiful Sunburst.
Orie Steele:   Diagrams and charts and visualizations for how.
Orie Steele:  Folks are doing and those tests run every night and 
  those visuals are rebuilt every time the tests are run I think 
  one other area that we've looked at has been the efficiency of 
  presentations so verifiable presentations are often authenticated 
  so that requires the prover to get a challenge from the verifier 
  and that's great if you have a human in the loop and you're 
  really trying to bind that authentication event.
Orie Steele:   To that particular.
Orie Steele:  Point but it can be sort of problematic if you're 
  really just trying to have one party send a bunch of data to 
  another party using a verifiable presentation and so we've done a 
  lot of work looking at oauth secured traceable presentations 
  where a client basically is authenticated and the client sends 
  verifiable presentations to the server and they don't have to do 
  an interactive authentication step as part of each presentation.
Orie Steele:  I think that's probably enough of a summary.
Kimberly Linson:  That's a great summary all right well let me 
  open it up to to the entire group are there work items that 
  you've been working on this year that you want to let the 
  community know where they stand.
Kimberly Linson:  Please add yourself to the queue.
Kimberly Linson:  Manu are you still on the queue.
Manu Sporny:  No I should be off the queue but since I'm speaking 
  I'd love to hear from kaliya and Lucy about their work on 
  California I'm guessing like you know people people can't read 
  everything that comes across their desk but I think it's vital 
  the work that they did because it's one of the first well I don't 
  want to it's a really important engagement that I feel is new to 
Manu Sporny:   Community meaning like we have you know for many 
  years we were.
Manu Sporny:  Very focused like razor sharp focused on the 
  technology and we weren't really that focused on communicating 
  outside or you know training folks on how to write specs and how 
  to engage with the community and I think there have been a lot of 
  there's been a lot of progress there in at this point like we now 
  literally literally have nation states that are looking at the 
  work that we're doing in planning National.
Manu Sporny:  Strategy National digital identity strategy.
<mprorock> I see David on queue as well - he and I for sure are 
  involved in multiple policy items
Manu Sporny:  Around the stuff that we're doing so that happens 
  at both the the state you know level as well as National level 
  and so kind of hearing you know from Kaliya and Lucy about the 
  process that they went to to 1 get legislation into law right and 
  2 how that process has been working I think would that might help 
  other people kind of like find their place in the community as 
  far as like a here's a way that you can contribute.
Manu Sporny:  Right.
Manu Sporny:  Anyway so sorry to put you on the spot Kaliya but.
Kaliya Young:  Yeah so thanks manu so the good news is that I'm 
  bringing the colleagues that I worked with at the blockchain 
  advocacy Coalition and our verifiable credentials policy 
  committee that I led to come and speak to the group to go into 
  those details Jamie Miner who is our lobbyist zoomed in to IIW 
  and we did a session there so we'll we'll bring.
Kaliya Young:  That to ccg in the new year I think.
Kaliya Young:  Um a key piece of it was you know Tony Rose 
  connected up to Ali Medina and she is a you know I don't know 
  much about politics in California and I still feel like I know 
  very little but I certainly know more about it than I did two 
  years ago and really it's a process of relationship building and 
  connecting to legislators who want to make a difference and so.
Kaliya Young:   Through her.
Kaliya Young:  Connections and our contract lobbyist Jamie you 
  know led the we work with Senator hertzberg and his office to 
  originally the idea that we had was to put forward a trust 
  framework for the state and we went through one house one 
  committee and and hearing successfully for that but then it got 
  suspended in Appropriations because it was like going to cost 
  money to make a trust framework.
Kaliya Young:   And our sponsor senator.
Kaliya Young:  Hertzberg wanted to do something and so we were 
  like let's do something smaller let's just change the regulations 
  amend the regulations about what was needed to issue vital 
  records and this actually was motivated by a real crisis that 
  happened during the pandemic is that some counties ran out of the 
  fancy paper that by law they are required to use to issue these.
Kaliya Young:   Documents and there was no.
Kaliya Young:  Alternative so now there is this kind of backup / 
  forward-looking alternative with with digital and I think yeah so 
  so basically that hopefully that's enough for now in terms of 
  explaining the process but we’ll we’ll in the New Year bring 
  Jamie to the group and we can talk more about it and I want to 
  say that there are some work.
Kaliya Young:   Items that.
Kaliya Young:  Lucy and I both do and some work items that she 
  does and some work items I do so I've been really working on that 
  California work independent of Lucy but I think you know she and 
  I are definitely a team working on many many things including the 
  the latest community-oriented work that we've done around trying 
  to make sense about the Gap and opportunity between the 
  verifiable credentials and the mobile driver's license so I don't 
Kaliya Young:   So if people want to hear about that work as 
Kaliya Young:  And maybe I'll turn it over to Lucy to do that.
Kimberly Linson:  Lucy are you on.
Kimberly Linson:  I don't know I don't see I don't see her on so 
  we definitely do want to hear about that work and we will get 
  that scheduled as well that was a fantastic teaser that's what I 
  was hoping you would give it's like it was like a movie premiere 
  I'm like I can't wait to see that when it comes out so thank you 
  we're really looking forward to having you come and talk about 
  that work David I think you're on the queue.
<orie> See also: 
David Chadwick:  Yes thank you. Yeah, the work we’ve been doing 
  in the last 6 months or slightly longer is working with 
  Fraunhofer in Germany. For those of you who don’t know, 
  Fraunhofer had an ESSIF project called Train a couple of years 
  ago and we also had an ESSIF lab project at the same time and we 
  worked with them to integrate Train into verifiable credentials 
  to say how you could trust the issuer by putting a terms of use 
  field into credentials and that allowed the issuer to say I’m a 
  member of this trust federation and then the verifier could 
  verify by contacting the trust federation to see if the issuer 
  was trusted. And that was great, that was done. And then after 
  the ESSIF project finished, we also showed how we could trust the 
  schema that the issuer’s using and get the schema back from the 
  trust framework to make sure that the credentials were properly 
  issued and were well formed. And then in the last 6 months, we’ve 
  added to Train trust in the verifier. So you might.. So why do 
  you need trust in the verifier? Well, the analogy will be a user 
  is on his web browser and he goes to a webpage and that webpage 
  might be a scammer or whatever and it might be a sheep in wolf’s 
  clothing and TLS is introduced to ensure that the user is 
  definitely connecting to the website and the DSS owner through 
  what’s called DV public certificate. So the analogy in the 
  verifiable credentials case is that the user goes to some reliant 
  party’s … verifier who says I would like to see your personal 
  information in the shape of verifiable credentials and the user 
  needs to be told whether this reliant party … verifier is 
  actually trustworthy or not on his part of trust framework or if 
  there’s some unknown entity that might abuse your personal 
  information that you give to them. And so, that’s what we’ve been 
  working on building that into our wallet and into the Open ID for 
  verifiable credentials … protocol.
Kimberly Linson:  Thank you that's also very exciting Lucy I 
  think that you are on would you like to talk a little bit about 
  the work you've been doing this year.
Lucy Yang:  Hi Kimberly I am I'm just on Kaliya pulled me in so I 
  am sorry if I missed like the earlier kind of context if you 
  don't mind.
Kimberly Linson:  Just we've been kind of having an opportunity 
  to share what work we've been doing on doing this year and she 
  was sharing a little bit about the vital records work that you 
  both have been doing but she mentioned having you share a little 
  bit about what you've been doing with the mobile driver's 
Lucy Yang:  Oh got it thank you I think that the vital records is 
  Kaliya’s work I'm not involved in that part but I have been 
  working with Kaliya this year just particular focusing on how we 
  can communicate under standard work the technology work and where 
  we are with the technology and standard and to the broader Market 
  I think that's includes that the VC and mdl project which I 
  believe I already kind of touched upon last last week so I'm not 
  not intending to get too much into details but Kaliya if you 
  don’t mind.
Lucy Yang:   Sharing the link in case some of the folks here 
  today didn't were not.
Lucy Yang:  On session last week.
Lucy Yang:  I think just in general like I think my work in and 
  has been focusing on just communicating and also I think one of 
  like the findings from our VC mdl projects as well as other 
  project is how how to find as the technology and standards going 
  to Market what the role I think the implementers out outside of 
  the standard where technology core technology Community can can 
  play and from.
Lucy Yang:   Providing feedback point of view we’re more kind of 
  working together.
Kaliya Young: 
Kaliya Young: 
Lucy Yang:  To take like the standards and Beyond what what is 
  happening in the standard groups because my understanding is that 
  the standards are evolving and there's a process there but 
  there's a lot of like real world problems that need to be solved 
  that probably won't be completely in sync with standards so how 
  how the work can be done like you know outside of standard group 
  that can can help facilitate the use of the Technologies and 
  standards I think that's.
Lucy Yang:   Something like the big learning I mean for myself I 
  think also for.
Lucy Yang:  Like Kaliya and I for next year how we can help more 
  kind of work there is something like we want to explore further 
  so I hope that's that's.
Kimberly Linson:  It's a great Concept in fact it really puts in 
  my mind that you know this that the ccg really can be a place for 
  that feedback loop to exist right we're doing incredible 
  standards work as we talked about in the beginning and things 
  that are are now really getting out there in the wild and there's 
  a danger whenever that happens of like you know ending up down 
  the road and being like well yeah that that that has always been 
  a problem whereas if we.
Kimberly Linson:   We really are starting to connect.
Kimberly Linson:  That Circle we can get the feedback to the 
  folks in this group that are doing the doing the work so thank 
  you that was great let's see Manu.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah I wanted to maybe ask folks to weigh in on 
  incubation venues so I'm talking about things like rebooting the 
  web of trust internet identity Workshop I think one of the other 
  things that if I think one of the one of the other things that 
  has changed over the past couple of years and has really changed 
  this year is we now have so many people in.
Manu Sporny:   The group that we.
Manu Sporny:  Are able to sustain like good active connections 
  with other groups where we are seeing things like what David 
  Chadwick talked about which is you know the incubation and ESSIF 
  lab and the coordination among parties there and then you know 
  potentially work that's happening at rebooting and iiw incubating 
  out there and then eventually resulting in like a work item in 
  ccg or IETF or you know any of those those other venues.
Manu Sporny:   So I don't know Joe again sorry to put.
Manu Sporny:  You on the spot but could you speak a little bit to 
  that and then maybe you know Kaliya could speak a bit to 
  incubation at IIW.
Joe Andrieu:  Sure I can speak a bit to rebooting so we ended up 
  taking a couple years off because of covid as we travel the world 
  are we were going to be in Argentina in Buenos Aires and that did 
  not work out so it was this last fall in September we managed to 
  pull the team back together and we had a workshop in The Hague 
  had maybe 70 attendees it was pretty good turnout and I think we 
Joe Andrieu:   Some really good advancement.
Joe Andrieu:  On a lot of very interesting topics I think one of 
  the most consequential to our work here is work being done by 
  Oliver T and Paul Bastion on figuring out how do we deal with 
  holder binding-related use cases where people want to do certain 
  things with VCs and it’s complicated and controversial and I was 
  really happy that we were able to host that work we currently are 
  not planning on having one next spring but.
Joe Andrieu:   Hopefully we'll be able to pull something together 
  for the fall.
<phil_t3> I can speak to RWOT - as a first time participant and 
  work that has actually emerged from that with Dmitri (Zagidulin) 
  and Golda (Velez)
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you Kaliya do you want to talk 
  about oh actually Phil let me let me have you jump in and add 
  your thoughts.
Phil Long:  Yeah and I just wanted to say just to support what 
  Joe is saying as a first-time participant at the rbo rebooting 
  the web of trust Workshop I went there with Dimitri zaga Doolin 
  and we had submitted a paper on linked claims and from that 
  Workshop met up through three other people that were strong 
  contributors to the work over the Intensive multi days of 
Phil Long:   Result of all of that.
Phil Long:  Has been two things one is a spin-off that describes 
  the use of Link claims for the purposes of documenting disaster 
  relief resources in places around the world where philanthropy 
  provides funding to local parties to deliver services and the 
  question is do the actual Support Services get delivered and or 
  not a paper on that and description of it is being submitted to 
  and will be published by the US Chamber of Commerce.
Phil Long:   Foundation’s T3 Innovation Network and the second is 
Phil Long:  Actual paper itself on linked claims which uses multi 
  base hash willing to bind independent digital objects including a 
  credential to a credential or credential to third party objects 
  which will be submitted in its final form in just a week or so so 
  I just wanted to underscore the importance of that sort of 
  incubator space as manu described it and encourage people to 
  consider it and that even though I'm not the technologist that 
  most of the individuals there.
Phil Long:   Are -- i was warmly welcomed and was.
Phil Long:  Greatly appreciative thanks.
Kimberly Linson:  Thanks Phil that's great Kaliya do you want to 
  add anything about iiw.
Kaliya Young:  Sure iiw continued throughout the pandemic we had 
  four virtual IIW's and people put their foot down and said you 
  must go back in person and we infected this year with to 
  in-person events in Mountain View we had new you know we we were 
  I think our.
Kaliya Young:   Our Peak attendance.
Kaliya Young:  In the virtual iiw was 460 people we sold out both 
  of the last two IIW's we had you know pushing 280 at the first 
  one this year and we expanded it rented more of the venue and 
  expanded attendance and we ended up at 350 this last IIw.
Kaliya Young:  It felt really incredibly productive you know it's 
  one of those things where I'm watching it all go by in the middle 
  of it and just feels really overwhelming but I know based on the 
  report outs and the topics that were listed a lot of productive 
  work move forward both in the sessions and on the side of 
  sessions I think it's one of the values of the event is people 
Kaliya Young:  Sit down and have long conversations about how to 
  resolve things like I know there was discussions about that 
  whatever however long the the issue thread has gotten about about 
  context and and semantics and credentials but I think I saw 
  people talking for hours trying to find a path through that for 
  the community and for the work which is really heartening to see.
Kaliya Young:  I also think that that the sort of pressure on the 
  themes of iiw means the time is right to expand and support 
  Regional communities meeting that we see iiw as a core kind of 
  global event and you know there's people who want to connect with 
  other SSI companies in their region and expand the work both in 
  Europe and in apac.
Kaliya Young:   That you know.
Kaliya Young:  Everybody who wants to talk about SSI isn't going 
  to get on a plane and fly to Mountain View so I think the timing 
  is right for for what we're doing with these Regional events and.
Kaliya Young:  What else can I say I mean I'm open to respond to 
  any questions or concerns people have we're always seeking to be 
  really responsive to the community and help me to meet its needs.
Kaliya Young:  Women's breakfast was a super hit.
Kimberly Linson:  Thanks Kaliya I hope I've had you know I was 
  going to say it was an incredible the woman's breakfast was an 
  incredible success and that group of people have sort of 
  coalesced around some ideas and have been very communicative over 
  the last little bit and I'm going to try to get some of those 
  folks to be joining us here as well so okay we just have a few 
  minutes left and so if you have.
Kimberly Linson:   Been sitting in this meeting and saying.
Kimberly Linson:  This is a lot of work there is a lot going on 
  and in 2023 I really want to take a more active role well I want 
  to take just a couple of minutes and tell you how you can do that 
  let me see here so this is sort of the the second part of your 
  onboarding training if you've if you've joined us recently 
  because I know it took me a while to sort of get my head around.
Kimberly Linson:   What what are we doing here.
Kimberly Linson:  And so I wanted to take I've just a couple of 
  slides to just paint a picture for you and again I'll put this 
  link out into the community because this link here at the top 
  will take you right to a document about the work item process but 
  I really wanted to just highlight kind of what what is it that we 
  do so that you could see be thinking about the work you do and 
  how you might be able to contribute so we really do two kinds of 
  things we do community.
Kimberly Linson:   Reports and the goal of those is to sort of do 
  something that.
Kimberly Linson:  Is going to be a final report it's going to be 
  a specification and a document that we send up to a working group 
  it might be a note that sort of information that's helpful to 
  that working group or we might even just create some commentary 
  that's really just helpful for us and we never do anything else 
  else with it but we want to have that information for the 
  betterment of this community and then we have a number of things 
  that are ongoing Community drafts.
Kimberly Linson:   And this isn't.
Kimberly Linson:  Intended to sort of be a final document but 
  really companion pieces a conformance test Suite that kind of can 
  go alongside of a specification or a registry which is really 
  just a long-lived list of things that we need to be aware of that 
  we need to know about like all the did methods having those lists 
  I know is very helpful to me schema and having reference schemas 
  that are out there such as the json-ld.
Kimberly Linson:   Content text or some of the experimental 
<phil_t3> What is the meeting schedule for CCG for the remainder 
  of Dec?  Would appreciate it if someone can share that, and or 
  point me to the best site where that info might be found.
Kimberly Linson:  That you've been hearing about for the last 
  little bit all of those are specific work items that can be 
  proposed and established we're going to talk about task Force's 
  vc edu we've mentioned a couple of times they're going to be here 
  right after the new year and so I've sort of left them them off 
  of this for right now but I just those are sort of the key work 
  items and.
Kimberly Linson:  This is the cycle for how they go so you first 
  step is to propose one I'd like to do X and if you've had 
  something in your mind then that's the very first step and we 
  want to hear about it the next step is an adoption step where as 
  a community again more than 500 people strong we will discuss it 
  together and decide how.
Kimberly Linson:   To move forward.
Kimberly Linson:  At which point it will become a draft which is 
  really a let's make the thing like let's just get to work and put 
  our heads down and do the thing we just said we were going to do 
  and then we have sort of two resolutions sometimes things get 
  archived because it just wasn't as important as maybe we thought 
  it was initially and so we went ahead and retired it or its final 
  it becomes a thing we pass it along you heard a number of folks 
  talk about items that have been passed on this.
Kimberly Linson:   Year and so we've contributed something to to 
  the Greater community.
Kimberly Linson:  So if you have a work item that you want to 
  propose again the link here is here there's a few things to think 
  about it needs a name it needs an abstract description of it it 
  needs owners and this is often where work items I think get a 
  little bit stuck is that you need to have two work items or two 
  owner editors from two different organizations and that I think 
  is hopefully something.
Kimberly Linson:   In the new year that we can work on with you 
  know we have these folks.
Kimberly Linson:  Who are wanting to do this work item who else 
  is interested in that and maybe we can have a little matchmaking 
  and then you need to be able to answer these key questions what 
  are you trying to do without jargon or acronyms how does it how 
  does it happen today and what it what are the limits with what's 
  the problem that that isn't solving and what is new in your 
  approach and why do you think it'll be successful and how are you 
  involving participants from multiple.
Kimberly Linson:   Skill sets all over and what actions are you 
Kimberly Linson:  Taking to make this work item accessible to a 
  non-technical audience and we can help walk you through this if 
  you have if you have questions on that and you want to talk to 
  one of the chairs I know all three of us would be more than happy 
  to work through this process with you and once you've created 
  this little template and then you can just email that link to the 
  ccg mailing list and that will actually make it a proposed work 
  item that we can then start to discuss.
<phil_t3> Nevermind - found the future meetings link:
Kimberly Linson:  And then lastly just to kind of end off should 
  I propose a ccg work item of course yes we definitely want work 
  items things to consider I think are can you envision what the 
  end result of this will be and and do you have the time I think 
  all of the folks that you heard speak today you know you can 
  definitely see the amount of time and energy that goes into 
  putting this kind of work forward.
Kimberly Linson:   And of course it's important to know are you 
  going to get others on.
Kimberly Linson:  Board if this is going to be sort of a solitary 
  project that you're going to do and nobody else really has this 
  has the same goal that you have it's going to be hard for this to 
  get all the way through the process so that's I think something 
  that you need to consider and then lastly of course you need to 
  be to determine whether or not you're okay working on this and 
  doing this under the Community contributor license agreement.
Kimberly Linson:   And then lastly if you’re here.
<mprorock> mailing list! (and questions on this meeting)
Kimberly Linson:  And you're like well that all sounds great but 
  I'm not ready to to propose a work item but I do want to get more 
  active I did it was really helpful to me as I've been working on 
  sort of doing the research to to talk to you about the 
  accomplishments we had this year to also sort of say okay well 
  how would someone get active and really gitHub is a great place 
  to to do it you can in fact the link that.
Kimberly Linson:   I gave you at the very beginning with.
Kimberly Linson:  The stats actually shows you every active 
  repository and it tells you when you click on that it tells you 
  all kinds of interesting things like who people that are involved 
  in that and you can follow those people and connect with them and 
  you can follow the repositories and then you can start to ask 
  questions when you see something that doesn't make sense to you 
  and really that will move the work forward and enable you to get 
  started in doing that so I took more time than I wanted to do 
  because we are just about.
Kimberly Linson:   At time but I did want to just take a moment 
  to sort of circle the wagons around what are work items.
Kimberly Linson:  Be thinking over the next couple of weeks 
  before before our next meeting is there something that's on your 
  mind that we need to consider addressing in the new year I will 
  take a couple more questions off the off the queue if there are 
Kimberly Linson:  I have David and Manu but I think that's from 
  before area.
Kimberly Linson:  Alright well thank you everyone happy New Year 
  and we will see you shortly after the new year.
<harrison_tang> Happy Holidays!!
Kimberly Linson:  Gregory do you have a question.
Kimberly Linson:  Recording has stopped.
Kimberly Linson:  All right thanks Harrison.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you I'll close up the meeting in five 
  minutes thanks.
Harrison_Tang: Great do you have any questions for us.

Received on Wednesday, 14 December 2022 10:24:05 UTC