Re: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-08-15

Thank you for sharing!
ᐧ

On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:16 PM Kayode Ezike <kezike13@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Snorre,
>
> Yes, there are a number of useful resources to note. Here are a few:
>
>    - Definition of credential status in VC Data Model specification:
>    https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#status
>    - Status List 2021 specification:
>    https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-status-list-2021
>    - Status List 2021 implementation:
>    https://github.com/digitalbazaar/vc-status-list
>    (react-native-compliant fork:
>    https://github.com/digitalcredentials/vc-status-list)
>
> Hope this helps and happy to provide more context as needed!
>
> Kayode
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 3:07 AM Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <
> snorre@diwala.io> wrote:
>
>> Great! In the agenda and its main topic, this sentence is mentioned
>> "Thanks to the great work of key stakeholders in the identity standards
>> and developer community, we now have emerging specifications and great
>> tooling for (1) issuers to manage the status of their credentials and (2)
>> verifiers to check key status info, such as revocation and suspension." Are
>> there any meetings, documents or anything that can be looked at to get some
>> insight about this statement :D
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 8:04 PM CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
>>>
>>> The transcript for the call is now available here:
>>>
>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-08-15-vc-education/
>>>
>>> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
>>> Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
>>>
>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-08-15-vc-education/audio.ogg
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2022-08-15
>>>
>>> Agenda:
>>>   https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2022Aug/0005.html
>>> Topics:
>>>   1. IP Note
>>>   2. Call Notes
>>>   3. Introductions & Reintroductions
>>>   4. Announcements
>>>   5. Main Topic: Kayode Ezike with Updates on MIT/DCC Credential
>>>     Status WOrk
>>> Organizer:
>>>   Kerri Lemoie
>>> Scribe:
>>>   Our Robot Overlords
>>> Present:
>>>   Xander, Andy Miller, John Kuo, Kerri Lemoie, Jonathan Bethune,
>>>   David Chadwick, Stuart Freeman, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Mike Peck,
>>>   Shawn Butterfield, Kayode Ezike, Dave McCool (Muzzy Lane), Joe
>>>   Kaplan, Andy Griebel, Kimberly Linson, Mahesh Balan -
>>>   pocketcred.com, David Ward, James Chartrand, Deb Everhart, Dmitri
>>>   Zagidulin, JennGreene, Janko, Jon St. John, Nate Otto, Akshar
>>>   Patel, Jim Kelly, Jeff O - HumanOS, Simone Ravaoli, Kaliya Young,
>>>   Marty Reed, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com),
>>>   Allyson Parco, Eric Shepherd, Phil L (P1)
>>>
>>> Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everybody Welcome to the August 15th BC edu
>>>   call today our main topic will be on credential status kod a DK
>>>   from MIT digital credential Consortium is going to present us on
>>>   some of the latest work that he's been doing on that over there
>>>   and we can pour we get started with that let's go through a few
>>>   boilerplate items first is IP note everybody for anyone.
>>>
>>> Topic: IP Note
>>>
>>> Kerri Lemoie:   Came to speed in these calls how any.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> create an account:
>>>   https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  You substitute of contributions to any of the ccg
>>>   work items must be done by members of the ccg with full IP are
>>>   agreements signed and to do that you can create an account at w3c
>>>   and put this in the chat for you and then also use this link to
>>>   join the ccg.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> join the CCG:
>>>   https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
>>>
>>> Topic: Call Notes
>>>
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey second All call notes for this call are
>>>   recorded and there are minutes being taken by are called our
>>>   robot Overlord is do the transcription I wish you'll see in the
>>>   chat we are also doing a Wheels do a video recording of This call
>>>   which can be found later we can send out if you need it so coyote
>>>   will have some slides today so it'll be nice to have that
>>>   recorded we use a cue system.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:   To to ask questions and participate.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Conversation so if you would have a question or
>>>   would like to say something please kill yourself first you do
>>>   that by putting a q+ and the chat just like I did there you could
>>>   also do to U plus and then say a note about something you want to
>>>   say and that lets us know if you're responding to something
>>>   that's being said right away so we know when to pull you into the
>>>   conversation so that is very helpful and then to remove yourself
>>>   from the queue just uq-.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:   And we get something.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  They did that wrong okay remove something from the
>>>   queue okay.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Because the floor all right when I say we hit q-
>>>   we're actually looking to see who is in the queue.
>>>
>>> Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
>>>
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay next let's do some introductions and
>>>   reintroductions is there anybody here joining us today for the
>>>   first time that I would like to introduce themselves or anybody
>>>   who's been here for a while and I would just like to say hello
>>>   again and let us know a little bit about something they're
>>>   working on if so go ahead and put yourself in the queue.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah I'm going to queue myself up real quick here
>>>   one thing I haven't mentioned is that I started a new role at the
>>>   beginning of August I have the digital credential contortion so
>>>   I'm going to be there director of Technology it doesn't really
>>>   change much for BC I do I will still be here doing all of that
>>>   work because the DCC has made her is really been backing all of
>>>   this work and really significant way making sure that we have
>>>   this open Community to work and so I'm really happy to be able to
>>>   continue the.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:   Work there and help to do what I want to do which
>>>   is in.
>>> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> congrats Kerri!
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Adoption understanding of verifiable credentials
>>>   that had that has been my my shift recently.
>>>
>>> Topic: Announcements
>>>
>>> <kerri_lemoie> VC email list:
>>>   https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  There's no other introduction to reintroductions
>>>   next we have announcements and reminders one is that if you
>>>   haven't joined it yet we do have an email list and I met email
>>>   this can be joined by going here put this in the chat for you so
>>>   we have it in our notes later.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  The great list to join you don't have to be
>>>   necessarily technical drawing this or you work on technical
>>>   projects if you just want to stay in the loop on what's going on
>>>   in Education and Training and achievement credentials that's the
>>>   list to join this is where we try to have all those
>>>   conversations.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  And the other announcement that I have is that
>>>   tomorrow at 11:00 and noon sorry tomorrow at noon Eastern is the
>>>   weekly ccg meeting.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  They recommend doing that as much as you possibly
>>>   can to learn what's going on in the community as a whole.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Does anybody else have any announcements or
>>>   anything they'd like to share.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  It's the money I see that you just joined us would
>>>   you be interested in telling folks about our next week's call
>>>   will be about it sounds really great.
>>> Simone Ravaoli:  Yes hi hello everyone I hope you can hear me so
>>>   we are going to have as a guest get anything on this sea of
>>>   Gattaca Gattaca is a nest site a company based out of Spain and
>>>   they've been involved in the end building and implementing all
>>>   the ab c-- specification so that's that would be the European
>>>   blockchain service infrastructure particularly they have been
>>>   looking into version 2 of.
>>> Simone Ravaoli:   Of the did method did.
>>> Simone Ravaoli:  And they've risked to share some Reflections
>>>   around what is the difference between version 1 and 2 and some of
>>>   the implications that version 2 has with regards to privacy
>>>   regulations in Europe also known as GDP are but they are a
>>>   Community member that has really just been doing a lot of work
>>>   from Europe and so that would be I think an interesting update
>>>   from what's Happening outside of North America.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you so much that sounds great I'm really
>>>   looking forward to it okay anybody else have anything else before
>>>   we move on to our main topic.
>>>
>>> Topic: Main Topic: Kayode Ezike with Updates on MIT/DCC Credential
>>> Status WOrk
>>>
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay why don't I then introduce Kayode. Kayode is
>>>   working on this great project related to credential status he's
>>>   working on making it possible for issuers to manage the status of
>>>   their credentials and for verifiers to check status info,
>>>   especially a revocation or suspension so he's going to show you
>>>   some of his work today and then feel free to ask questions and
>>>   then we can see what we can learn about it well.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:   Tim Kennedy.
>>> Kayode Ezike: Slides:
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UYFcVLYaz8jhmmYM8l43cBg-mtINlxlFMESCbYupjwo
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Thank you thank you characters interesting here's
>>>   the link to the presentation that be using for today I know we
>>>   generally do not show video for van with purposes I would do that
>>>   really quickly just to introduce myself and turn off every but
>>>   this guy is he gay again and brief introduction is that I've been
>>>   involved with digital credentials since around 2018 but that time
>>>   that I began my master's program around proper credentials and
>>>   personal data storage management.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   Since then I've been contributing to number of
>>>   Open Source projects.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Optical pulse of my own and these days I primarily
>>>   support the digital credentials Consortium through MIT as well as
>>>   Gobekli which is the startup it's also doing great work in this
>>>   space so thank you for having me and I'll put up my screen so
>>>   that an alternative you'll see how can see we have.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Kayode I'll keep an eye on the chat for you.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Thank you okay so.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  If explosion one second.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Spell with me.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Okay I think if I try none.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Not yet not yet nope.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Are you able to see my screen now.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  If you're transmitting from a Mac there you
>>>   might need to update the permissions in the control center which
>>>   means you have to restart the browser and redrawing.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  But you're trying to do something like that but it
>>>   was it.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  One of us can also.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Screen share the slides and just thanks Kerry.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah I can do that that's true.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  I'll probably be faster chaotic.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Say next slide.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah just let me know in and we pull it up here
>>>   hold on one second.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Animations hopefully syncs
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I am just clearing everything out of the way here
>>>   on the way everybody's happy about the desert play.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay can you see.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep we can see your screen.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  To be this clarity.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Great yes I can see.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Oh there you are okay you can see the head you can
>>>   take it from here now just let me know when you want to move to
>>>   the next slide.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Awesome thank you Kerry so today we'll be
>>>   discussing a topic I was cussing to what that would get a
>>>   credential status hosting and for scare anybody away this is not
>>>   a new specification for credential status is more so concerning
>>>   ourselves with how can we help issuers to expedite their
>>>   deployment of criticized infrastructure by leveraging familiar
>>>   services to them and and hence sort of taking care of it.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Origin authorization concerns that.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  To them and so this in terms of what we're
>>>   discussing today I'll be giving a brief background of the topic
>>>   and we'll be going through a bit of the state-of-the-art who tell
>>>   you what our goals were let me Design This solution as well as
>>>   what the actual solution is will then show you a little bit of
>>>   code before you show you the demo of what we've done.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Granger status management has been around for some
>>>   time and one of the earliest conceptions of it really came from
>>>   certificate authorities with the notion of certificate revocation
>>>   lists which is a list of certificates that an issuer has revoked
>>>   prior to its from its expiry and that is sort of the the main
>>>   model that we think about in this space when we think about
>>>   country status management.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Generally we think about a resource that is
>>>   managed by an issuer that informed the public about the state of
>>>   outstanding credentials and there's been a lot of work done in
>>>   this space over the years in terms of Standards development and
>>>   developer tools for how to manage the status of these credentials
>>>   as well as how to verify the information on them such as
>>>   revocation or suspension however storage and authorization have
>>>   kind of.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   Been left out of scope largely and.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Good that it would be great if we can simplify
>>>   that for issuers and their deployments.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Thank you so next slide great so I want to give a
>>>   quick definition of printer status according to the v-spec mental
>>>   status is an object value property that enables the discovery of
>>>   information about the current status of the verifiable credential
>>>   such as whether it is suspended or revoked.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So in other words now before we go on another
>>>   words it gives consumers of this credential and idea of the
>>>   issuer's view of the current validity of a credential next please
>>>   so here on the right we have an example of a verifiable
>>>   credential that has a special status property on it but one thing
>>>   to know is that it is an optional value so you not every verify.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Krista have this field on it.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  If it does have the field on it it must Define two
>>>   main properties which is ID and type and it must also valid like
>>>   the remaining properties are specified by the type field so in
>>>   this example we know that we have a status festering 21 entry the
>>>   type and the three types of rather Fields below it status purpose
>>>   statuses index in status credential relate to or rather are
>>>   defined in the stands for students.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   T10 tree.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Toyota quick question I do we want to wait
>>>   till the end for questions or do you want to encourage people to.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  If they encounter something or when I ask
>>>   questions about each slide to raise their hand.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  I'm happy to take questions as they come up.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Is it just the two Fields so the state-of-the-art.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  There have been a lot of great work and done in
>>>   sequential status space and one of the early conceptions of this
>>>   or examples of this came in 2018 from hyper legit Indy via their
>>>   HIV ew1 one penetration spec and they use a bunch of cool
>>>   technology cryptographic graphic accumulators to determine which
>>>   credentials have been revoked and interestingly enough I learned
>>>   in the suspect that it seems that this actually is.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Predates to know now have medication.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Like I found to be interesting and a couple years
>>>   later the ccg would develop a speck of their own via the
>>>   revocation list 2020 spec and soon after be a refined version and
>>>   the status was 20 21 spec which sort of granted a more General
>>>   notion of status that goes beyond just a vacation but also
>>>   support system suspension and other forms of criminal status.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Next please and the most for all these
>>>   specifications all right one more back sorry.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So this is the this point on hosting so for any
>>>   all these specifications is important for verifiers to be able to
>>>   to check this the status of the credential somehow right and the
>>>   most obvious way to do this is to host the resources and in a
>>>   public location namely a distributed Ledger or a short controlled
>>>   website.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Any questions here.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  You can move on next slide please.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  No questions yet sure.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Great so I want to talk to you all about status
>>>   list 20 21 this is the suspect that we use in our design and the
>>>   it's one of the more advanced specs out there and in my opinion
>>>   and this is examples of the left what you see is a credential
>>>   from a couple slides ago so nothing new here yet we have
>>>   verifiable credential had the credential status on it and it has.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   As all the fields that we discussed earlier.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Now if you pay attention to the key in on the
>>>   status purpose status index and Status credential properties
>>>   these are the properties that are introduced by the status least
>>>   2021 spec the first of these properties is the most self
>>>   explanatory this is saying that.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   The issuer.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Acting this type of status for this credential so
>>>   for verifier when they want to verify the status of the
>>>   credential this is the information that they will learn now the
>>>   other two properties are more specific to sort of like are sort
>>>   of the meat and potatoes of how this specification works and it
>>>   relates to a new resource at the introduced so if you can just go
>>>   forward just a couple steps very until you see a new object in
>>>   the right.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So this on the right is a status list 2021
>>>   credential and the best way to think about this credential is it
>>>   is the credential that manages the status of a batch of multiple
>>>   credentials it's not philosophy that one more time but this is a
>>>   credential that the issuer manages that tracks a batch of several
>>>   different credentials and so what this means if you could just
>>>   click one more time Carrie.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   So we so.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  This was the most important information on this
>>>   country is this encoded list value right here and what it is in
>>>   the simplest representation you can think of it as a sequence of
>>>   characters let's let's say X's and O's that represents the the
>>>   status of a credential at that position right and so if the value
>>>   let's say the value of that was X it would mean that it is
>>>   invalid respect to the status purpose so in other words it is
>>>   revoked.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   Value is 0 it means that it is valid with.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  The words is not revoked and if we go back to the
>>>   if you focus again on the left side you will see that the status
>>>   list credential property that is just the way for verifiers to
>>>   retrieve this credential on the right so it's a public link that
>>>   they can access and the status index tells them which position in
>>>   that encoded list is represented a represents this credential.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So I want to I want to pause here before we
>>>   move on to the next slide I want to make sure everybody absorbs
>>>   this so.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  I want to make sure everybody understands what
>>>   that encoded list is for right because at its at its simplest a
>>>   credential status is binary for a given status purpose so like
>>>   for a vacation rental is either revoked or it's not so the very
>>>   first sort of naive implementations of replication status where
>>>   to host a.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   Some kind of object.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Either cover fabric credential or something
>>>   else that's a revoked or not for each individual credential right
>>>   easy so or even before that I think what open badges did is just
>>>   publish a plane list of all revoked credential IDs on their
>>>   website yeah so you get you get the credential you can go look up
>>>   that list to see if it's revoked.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So very easy and we wouldn't be having this
>>>   problem I rather this this conversation here except there's a
>>>   couple of major major problems there one is privacy that if you
>>>   publish a list of remote credentials well you can go see
>>>   everybody whose credentials are revoked but an even more
>>>   important one is what's known as the phone home problem it's one
>>>   of the downsides of Hosting.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   An individual status.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Nation for each credential is that whoever is
>>>   hosting it covers running that website can track.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Requests can can track how many times and from
>>>   where from what IP address is and what time stamp some verifier
>>>   is is checking.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Revocation and that that is generally
>>>   regarding the community has too much information that that's like
>>>   that's not necessary that is a threat so then the reason the
>>>   status list spec arose is that okay so if we don't if we don't
>>>   want the host whoever's controlling the web whole of the web
>>>   server to know each time each individual credential is looked up
>>>   why don't we batch it why don't we rely on.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   On herd immunity on herd privacy.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And batch a whole bunch of credentials at
>>>   random.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And then the verifier can request this whole
>>>   batch this this entire credential that has the encoded list that
>>>   contains the status of 20 or 100 I forget how many it is.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Potential statuses and that way the request
>>>   will be spread out over that entire cohort of credentials and
>>>   that way we get her privacy I see David is on the queue.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  When you credential is revoked right so when your
>>>   credential is revoked this this this French on the right will be
>>>   updated the encoded list will be up to such that the bit at that
>>>   position I 4 5 6 10 is now 1 or Annex discussed earlier.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Yes yes that comes up I think some question time
>>>   so that really I think bows down to the I think we leave that to
>>>   the implementers of the their system because that really comes
>>>   down to how often how what is it catching sort of system like do
>>>   you check every day do you check every hour and the you'd have to
>>>   give an essay to the individual using your system to let them
>>>   know that this is just going to be valid.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  For a given day or for.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Etcetera but I don't think that's something that
>>>   this back tries to address or to solve.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Give me three.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  If I may add to that so the cache control is
>>>   left to the individual protocol meaning because this particular
>>>   credential is held over http.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  His publishing the status list can rely on
>>>   HTTP cache control directives meaning each time the verifier
>>>   sends an HTTP get for this status credential one of the headers
>>>   in the response says only cash this for an hour meaning we're
>>>   going to we're going to renew this thing every hour and that way
>>>   the verifier knows how long to cash it right so we get that the
>>>   caching mechanism for free with HTTP so we don't need to put in.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   An explicit.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Potential now if we were if the URL of the
>>>   status of protection was not HTTP was what some other was ipfs or
>>>   some other method that doesn't come with cache-control metadata
>>>   then you're right David we should include an expires field in the
>>>   statuses credential.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Okay thank you.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  No more questions for now Kayode if you want to go
>>>   ahead.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Thank you for question is David and I'm great
>>>   thanks for getting ahead of me Michelle's going to get into the
>>>   herd privacy notion which is I think one of the main benefits of
>>>   the specification which is just to reiterate when a verifier is
>>>   interested in learning about the status of a credential they are
>>>   only communicating to the issuer that they're interested in a
>>>   subset of credentials that they manage not in a specific one so
>>>   it keeps the issuer away from fine-grained details about how a
>>>   specific.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Potential is being used and if you just.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Or just one.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Thank you this is a digital representation just
>>>   the visual Learners out there the green slots represent the valid
>>>   credentials with respect to the purpose so I'm revoked and events
>>>   Lots represent the invalid by evoked credentials.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Next slide please.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So we have a number of goals that we were
>>>   considering what we designed our country stars infrastructure the
>>>   main governing goal is that we wanted to simplify the deployment
>>>   for issuers of the printer status infrastructure and we do this
>>>   by leveraging third-party services for the storage and
>>>   optimization of grantor status resources and the great thing
>>>   about this is that we're kind of meeting is adjourned.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Is worth where they are right.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Allowing them to use a familiar hosting service
>>>   and and also providing potential path to switch between services.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So if we can step ahead just one slide.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  We'll get into the solution.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So we again decided to use a static list 2021
>>>   specification and feel free to consult the design doc at that
>>>   link and the whole conclusion I think this is really where we
>>>   innovate and we decided to use Source control services such as
>>>   GitHub get lab and code Berg and we also support issuer hosted
>>>   websites traditionally and so what this allows us to do again is
>>>   we.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   It's a biscuit.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Like that organizations already use these services
>>>   to host their code and and also these Services often provide
>>>   developers with oauth tokens that they can use to access apis of
>>>   these services to update resources and so why don't we just use
>>>   this these services to help issuers manage their current status
>>>   lists and metadata associated with it.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Any questions here.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  To reload it.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Any chance has an adversity.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah if I could just add a couple more words
>>>   so I want you I want you to everybody to picture the the very
>>>   specific conversation the very specific problem the solves.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  As okay we're issuing credential great can we
>>>   add revocation sure why not what's a good spec what we've got
>>>   this status list 2021 spec okay then engineering how hard of a
>>>   lift is this to add this to our system how many hours before you
>>>   can add revocation to to our issuer and that's where the real
>>>   problem starts because hosting a file on a website that b is easy
>>>   the really difficult part which is what makes okay.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   It is work so.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Difficult Park is part is adding the user
>>>   interface and specifically adding permissions to who is allowed
>>>   to edit who's allowed to revoke the the credential right so the
>>>   spec gives us the data model gives us the protocol the mechanisms
>>>   very easy what's really not easy and what shoots up the
>>>   implementation time in too many weeks not to mention like really
>>>   hard requirement Gathering is.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Delegation the chain of command of.
>>> <xander> I don’t think you can set http cache control headers on
>>>   GitHub-hosted files.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay so you know how do we model the trust and
>>>   permission hierarchy of a particular University down to the
>>>   registrar and then how does it register our delegate individual
>>>   officers to be able to hit the button to flip that bit for for
>>>   the file to be updated so the the the main Innovation here is the
>>>   realization that.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Because permission control and and login
>>>   systems and graphical user interface is the hardest part about
>>>   this can we Outsource it to somewhere else and the realization
>>>   was made oh get hosting organizations like GitHub and get lab and
>>>   code Berg already provide all of that they provide the permission
>>>   systems the login systems they produce institutions are familiar
>>>   with setting up Gap GitHub organizations all of that.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   Stuff is worked out for us why don't we reuse
>>>   it.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Geico I'll go ahead Gary.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  One question I'm asking these are all my be
>>>   hosting Services could someone just use get for this on its own
>>>   without using GitHub get lab and or code Berg.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So the the question with get is always which
>>>   protocol will get use right because get has SSH it has HTTP and
>>>   it has a number of other protocols words hosted so some server on
>>>   the cloud has to be running it gets server.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So can you use get a loan sort of it requires
>>>   a get server in a good client.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I think so Xander.
>>> Xander: I guess I have to have you spoken before so I'll just
>>>   quickly I'm the security lead for the pocket team just wanted to
>>>   follow up on David's question real quick so the idea there was
>>>   that you were going to rely on HTTP cache control headers to set
>>>   the expiry time for a different certificate right but you're also
>>>   talking about using services like GitHub to do the hosting I
>>>   don't believe that you can set the expired header value if you're
>>>   using a service like that.
>>> Xander: So that they.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And that's that's a very good point.
>>> Xander: You may need to put that you may need to put the time
>>>   value on the file done.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Right yeah that's a good description that we can
>>>   we start to use these third party dresses I think there's
>>>   different levels of access that they are each provide and I'm
>>>   sure maybe like if you have a paid account that makes a
>>>   difference as to how much you could control but I think largely
>>>   you make a good point and.
>>> Xander: I don't think so I got used the Enterprise version before
>>>   I think basically if you're using GitHub to host files like get
>>>   on pages or whatever they really handle everything and you don't
>>>   get access to that level.
>>> Xander: It may be worth looking into.
>>> <dmitri_zagidulin> that seems like a good motivation to clarify
>>>   (in the status list spec) the recommendation of always having
>>>   expiration timestamps
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah time in the queue tell jump in real quick
>>>   that's an excellent point and I know you haven't actually I'm let
>>>   you get into like how you doing this so maybe I'm jumping the gun
>>>   here Harry I'm sorry if I am but um are you considering using
>>>   just as part of this because just get versioned which is
>>>   something to consider okay that's the comment there but yeah.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  This is this is for like the accident the location
>>>   of us for example.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Yes it's something like this came up actually you
>>>   kind of hear made great recommendation at some point about
>>>   something like that where you would because get help for example
>>>   has a way for you to use a link that it's post using GitHub Pages
>>>   you can also use a link to the file directly that doesn't rely on
>>>   GitHub pages but I would imagine that the.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Might be a rat.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:
>>>
>>> https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/editing-and-sharing-content-with-gists/creating-gists
>>> Kayode Ezike:  He got distracted the same way in that case as
>>>   well in terms of controlling what the cache mechanism is like so
>>>   yeah that would be something to explore but the good thing I'll
>>>   show you a little bit later how some of these things can be
>>>   customized for different status clients of different services and
>>>   there's a way to add flexibility for for that.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> Link above to info about gists.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   Again to that little bit.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  There are no other questions can move on to the
>>>   next slide.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Great so this is a sort of a visual representation
>>>   of the architecture that we have issue admin who presumably would
>>>   already have the permissions that they need inside of a example
>>>   with GitHub organization so they already have access to create
>>>   read and write data to Repose in the organization and if you
>>>   click ahead.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   So this.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  This actor would be able to hit the credential
>>>   status and point of a VC API instance which allows them to update
>>>   the status EG revoke a credential.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  More step and then ultimately that enables them to
>>>   create read and update data in these different services.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So before we move on to a demo wanted to show a
>>>   little bit of code and so this is the main sort of class that we
>>>   Implement to with this code and so there's this tells subclasses
>>>   different methods that they need to implement for them to be
>>>   valid printer status clients and so for example you need to
>>>   provide a base URL that can be used to reference the printer
>>>   status information you need to.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Boo the client too.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  That is people from from the code need to enable
>>>   them to read and write status list and log data in config data so
>>>   as long as the subclasses can Implement these abstract methods
>>>   and they're valid client and so if you can step forward this one
>>>   step please carry will see that in this example GitHub a cultural
>>>   status client for their get credentialed status URL you notice
>>>   that there is a GitHub that I owe their meaning that.
>>> Kayode Ezike:   Using GitHub pages but this is also the place
>>>   where.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  I could use a distance that or URL that points
>>>   directly to the file and there's also we also are using the
>>>   octave kit Library a popular GitHub SDK to update and read
>>>   information from the repo which obviously would look different
>>>   for different services.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Any questions about this.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I think we're good once you go ahead.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So we're just going to get into a demo now just
>>>   step forward one and taxes and maybe that's going to come to my
>>>   email or something.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Probably going to email about that 17.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Karen thank you have to hit request again on
>>>   the subsequent page.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Let me know when it's all set Katie I'll refresh
>>>   it.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Yeah it is I just shared it.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  The volume on.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Were you able to hear the volume when I get out.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Dimitri do you know how to make that work.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yep that's share audio.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  In the settings so if you go to the 3 3. Menu
>>>   at the bottom settings there is yeah share out the others share
>>>   audio checkbox.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks your patience everybody but I'm getting
>>>   there.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  All right let me try that again it doesn't work
>>>   Katie you could just walk us through it.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> Can you hear?
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Now that doesn't seem to be coming through so
>>>   we can encourage people to watch since we we pasted the link to
>>>   the slide deck everybody can watch the video on the demo on their
>>>   own.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  But you can you can describe what when it's
>>>   done.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  We're going to start over and you can just sort of
>>>   walk us through what's happening.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Sure I mean it's a recorded a demo but effectively
>>>   what we were demonstrating is requesting a credential from our
>>>   version of V Capi importing that into DC learner wallet and then
>>>   from there we kind of show you throughout the whole process
>>>   called the repo is updating and so the GitHub repos I'm using a
>>>   demo and and then we revoke the credential.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Again from the VCA Pi you show you the.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Two then rebuild me also show you.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  That in the wallet and now shows that the
>>>   credential is revoked.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Again it's you should be able to view that video
>>>   in the presentation but that's effectively what's going on.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  So that was the last of it actually so if there's
>>>   any questions or feedback I'm happy to take in you David go
>>>   ahead.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Oh so so the so the credential continues to have
>>>   the same the credential never changes per se it's the information
>>>   at at least the credential that the holder controls is the
>>>   credential that the status could ensure that managers know that
>>>   has been coded list value that manages multiple credentials is
>>>   that one that will be shuffled and change as a credentials are
>>>   revoked suspended.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Can I can I jump in here as well.
>>> <nate_otto_(another_device)> Nah. credential.id is optional in VC
>>>   Data model anyway. Reissuing the same one doesn't violate it.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So David you're proposing or what you're
>>>   saying is essentially if we required verifiable credentials to be
>>>   content addressable so that every time the content of a
>>>   verifiable potential change the ID has to change but the v-spec
>>>   does not actually have that requirement you are you are in this
>>>   very frequently done allowed to publish credentials with the same
>>>   ID while their contents changes for example if you reuse.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:   Issue it and then.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Timestamp or a different signature so that is
>>>   that is not a requirement in this back.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I'm to add to that question sort of who may be
>>>   briefly talk about the difference between credential status list
>>>   and also credential refresh carrier to meet you would you mind
>>>   explaining that are both of you.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Shark a candidate doing on go ahead.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  How can I just ask this versus credential
>>>   refreshing scent.
>>> Kerri Lemoie: CredentialRefresh:
>>>   https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-refresh-2021/
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Yeah so my understanding generally is that
>>>   subconscious has what we discussed here which is that the issuer
>>>   manages a publicly accessible resource that allows verifiers to
>>>   check the status of the repo or rather the other credential for
>>>   the route for the refresh service my understanding is that
>>>   whenever if that is not provided the issuer exposes an endpoint
>>>   that.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Allows it that allows.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Verifiers to to refresh the credentials whenever
>>>   it has rather just to be able to refresh it whenever I would ever
>>>   Cadence in the seems reasonable that's generally how I understand
>>>   it but I'm happy to allow for any other discussion on that as
>>>   well.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so the refresh spec.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Complementary to the expiration mechanism so I
>>>   have my driver's license is good for four years what happens when
>>>   it expires up to four years the refresh spec basically describes
>>>   the credential version of oh I have to take the old one into the
>>>   drive the Bureau of Motor Vehicles on the issue me a new one so.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Both the status and the refresh exist
>>>   alongside each other and in fact some of the some of our example
>>>   specs have both or if you look at examples in open badges version
>>>   3 spec a lot of the verify the credentials their have both a
>>>   status list section and a refresh section.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks anybody else have any questions about this.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Or any other points they'd like to make about the
>>>   status and how this works.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I bet I have a question for all of you is there
>>>   anybody here who has implemented credential status and like to
>>>   tell us about how they're using it and how they've implemented
>>>   it.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay Patti really appreciated that I see so many Q
>>>   Jonathan the floor.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Anthony might be muted.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah you can't hear your Jonathan if you're
>>>   speaking.
>>> Jonathan_Bethune: Okay is that.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  If you have like an additional Hardware mute
>>>   on your mic maybe yes better yeah.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yep they are to thank you.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> Link to presentation:
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UYFcVLYaz8jhmmYM8l43cBg-mtINlxlFMESCbYupjwo/edit#slide=id.g143e60161fc_0_35
>>> Jonathan_Bethune: Better I was using one earpod and it's the one
>>>   that's dead so okay sorry about that so real quick by way of
>>>   introduction I think I've spoken much my name is Jonathan and the
>>>   engineering manager for pocket colleague of Xander who spoke a
>>>   little while ago just real quick I was wondering if there was a
>>>   way to get a link to the presentation and actually had a lot of
>>>   discussion internally about the X and we're just wanted to look
>>>   into a little.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Sure yeah definitely can share that.
>>> <phil_l_(p1)> Nate's Comment:
>>> Jonathan_Bethune: There we go oh that's fast okay let me well I
>>>   actually didn't get the click on it we just grabbed it's in the
>>>   chat right there we go.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah it's going up a little bit the chat moves
>>>   pretty fast because of the transcription.
>>> <phil_l_(p1)> Good point Nate.
>>> Jonathan_Bethune: Yeah got it alright thank you.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay if no one has anything else okay did you have
>>>   anything else you would like to add.
>>> Kayode Ezike:  That was that was everything I just thank you all
>>>   for your time and yeah we're continuing to refine this this work
>>>   and we primarily are supporting GitHub and get lab the moment and
>>>   working on some of the other services as well so just happy to
>>>   have this opportunity and thank you all again for there for
>>>   discussion.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah thank you very much.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And if I can add so if.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  If anybody has questions about this work
>>>   please send an email to the VC edu mailing list or if you're free
>>>   to contact KO myself directly the code code is free it references
>>>   an open spec we encourage everybody to join in the conversation.
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Hip and actually seen my hush you have killed
>>>   yourself up.
>>> https://imsglobal.github.io/openbadges-specification/ob_v3p0.html
>>> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Yes I had a question slightly
>>>   unrelated here but more on the open badges 3.0 spec I've been
>>>   trying to get hold of it and I seem to be pay bald by this IMS
>>>   Global if somebody has that and can make the open badges 30 spec
>>>   which is publicly visible I would appreciate it thank you.
>>> https://www.imsglobal.org/spec/ob/latest/main/
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  I can grab that link for you give me one second
>>>   here tell Ted you're in the queue your the floor.
>>> <kerri_lemoie> Open Badges 3.0 spec:
>>>   https://imsglobal.github.io/openbadges-specification/ob_v3p0.html
>>> TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I just
>>>   following up on responding to David's question about the unique
>>>   identifier for each credential in the same way that a URI is
>>>   expected to be stable that is that is the stability that we mean
>>>   for the ID in these verifiable credentials URI is always meant to
>>>   name the same thing which doesn't mean that it the thing it names
>>>   stays the same forever.
>>> TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Much like
>>>   your name always means you, but your contents don't stay the same
>>>   forever.
>>> <dmitri_zagidulin> thx Ted!
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey Alec it is empty and listen no one has
>>>   anything else we have a few minutes left so we could end the call
>>>   here give another Med see if anybody has anything otherwise I
>>>   hope you all have a great week and I will see you next week.
>>> <phil_l_(p1)> Nice preso!
>>> Kayode Ezike:  Cheers thank you.
>>> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thanks KO day thanks everyone.
>>> <elizabeth_miller> Thank you!
>>> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you headed.
>>> <john_kuo> Thanks, great discussion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>> +47 411 611 94
>> www.diwala.io
>> <http://www.diwala.io/>
>> *Stay on top of Diwala news on social media! **Facebook
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>>
>
>
> --
> Kayode Ezike | https://ezike.io
> MIT | BS 2017 | MEng 2019
> Engineer | Writer | Creator
>


-- 

*Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611 94
www.diwala.io
<http://www.diwala.io/>
*Stay on top of Diwala news on social media! **Facebook
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