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[MINUTES] W3C Verifiable Credentials VC-EDU Call - 2021-09-13

From: Kerri Lemoie <klemoie@concentricsky.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:35:07 -0400
Message-Id: <934FE3AF-14C4-43DF-A3C1-C925407FE63F@concentricsky.com>
To: Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Phil Long for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force telecon are now available:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon Minutes for 2021-09-13

  1. Agenda Review
  2. IP Note
  3. Call Notes
  4. Scribe Selection
  5. Introductions & Reintroductions
  6. Announcements & Reminders
  7. Dmitri Zagidulin from the Digital Credentials Consortium 
    (DCC) update on the Learner Wallet
  Kerri Lemoie and Anthony Camilleri
  Phil Long
  Kerri Lemoie, Anthony Camilleri, Mark Miller, Thierry Thevenet, 
  George Artem, Wes Teter, Kayode Ezike, Steve Gance, Phil Long, 
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Phil Barker, Matt Lisle, Jim Goodell, Nate 
  Otto, James Chartrand, David Chadwick, Simone Ravaioli 
  (Digitary), David Ward, Hans Pongratz, Todd Albers

Topic: Agenda Review

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Kerri Lemoie: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Kerri Lemoie: http://irc.w3.org/?channels=ccg
Kerri Lemoie: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/irc_ref.html

Topic: Call Notes

Topic: Scribe Selection

<phil_l_(p1)> Happy to scribe Kerri
Phil Long is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Intros and re-intros?
George Artem, not exactly new. Founded MetaCampus, the goal of 
  which was to build a digital badging infrastructure and massively 
  open administration. A tech summary recently published with the 
  Founder of Nettherium (sp?).
Wes asked for a re-intro
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks @George!
<george_artem> georgeartem@protonmail.com
Wes Teter - works for UNESCO and works with LEF re: recognition 
  of learning.
Kerri Lemoie: https://github.com/digitalcredentials
Matt Lisle - works for Georgia Tech, and various ed tech 
  projects. :-)

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Topic: Dmitri Zagidulin from the Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) update on the Learner Wallet

Dimitri Zagaidulin, software engineer for DCC, heading up the 
  mobile edu wallet project.  Updates will be given and data model 
Slides linked in Chat.
This is the DCC headed by MIT and other universities across the 
  world, doing an open source credential wallet aimed at 
Tightly focused MVP release about to go to pilot this fall in the 
  next few months.
In scope - general purpose learning wallet. Open source built in 
  React using typical university use case.
Institution issues completion of course completion with a URL or 
  QR code you can scan. Can open email on a mobile device, or 
  opened through Canvas, to use it add a credential to your mobile 
You can collect and share the credentials via the typical SM 
  abilities, email, text etc. of Android and iOS devices.
Credentials are stored only on the phone but can be backed up and 
  restored to the phone.
Example screen shot, but all is "in progress" based on 
  student/uni feedback. Screenshot based on credential detail view. 
  What fields will be displayed? How will it support any kind of 
  credential the student wants to store/display?
Questions so far?
Phil Barker -availability of the early release?
<kerri_lemoie> Wallet source is here: 
Will be available to anyone in the App Stores, and intend to roll 
  out the compatible developer playgrounds for issuer and verifier 
  apps for the unis in DCC and to the general public a few weeks 
<nate_otto> No audio queue for me, but I am interested to hear: 
  how will self sovereign identifiers be exposed to would-be 
  issuers? What does sharing a credential of this sort via text 
  message mean?
Phil Barker - would be nice to have some dummy credentials to 
  test with.  Dimitri says we'll talk about that in the next part 
  of the presentation (dummy credentials).
Matt Lisle: FYI: Kerri's link might not be the right repo. Might 
  want Dimitri to address this.
George - How detailed is the credential?  Dimitri - Targeting the 
  finer grained credentials at the moment rather than the full 
  learner record to start with.
Jim - is the competency metadata embedded or linked to somewhere 
Dimitri - in discussion with the dev team now. At the moment they 
  are stand alone, simple and fine grained to start with.
Nate - how will self-sovereign identifiers be shared? Especially 
  how will this work via text messages?
Dimitri - sharing via text message is sharing the JSON blob of 
  the credential. More useful as an email attachment but more 
  useful as a test method.
Not targeting ZKP in the initial release.
How the DID will be shared? The issuer is the interesting one.
At the moment various unis are exploring DIDs the credentials 
  issued today are tied to exiting enterprise systems in 
  traditional infrastructures. As an on ramp to get to SSI, at the 
  time of issuance they have to present to the issuer a bundle - 
  Dimitri is a student at uni 123 but also has this DID and should 
  be issued with that included.
Does the issuer know the identity of the student? Yes because the 
  student is 'known' by the current systems. But they need to have 
  a mechanism to bridge to DID methods of identity referencing.
Dimitri- quick look at the full data model of the example 
  credential could look like.
Caveat - it's an on-going conversation in development.
Don't put too much stock in the fields presented as final 
Optional credential ID.  Want a rich issuer field.  The person 
  looking at UI wants to have a human readable name of the issuer, 
  a logo and other ways to recognize the issuer
Traditional spec requirements - when issued, when expires, other 
  similar descriptors.  Has an optional Student Name, and 
  hasCredential achievement style and cryptographic signature.
What does this mean for display logic?  What do we do about 
  credential that require unique display logic?
Kerri - assuming Dimitri is saying the wallet will accept native 
  VC credentials? Or will they take the XML approach accepting 
  other non-native payload types? Not to start with. Going with 
  JSON-LD based native credentials to start
To clarify it will accept native OBv3 or CLR2 as VC credentials 
  it will store.
Answer to the question Kerri asked is "Yes"
What about other W3C native style VC credentials. At the moment 
  we don't have a way to dictate the display of a credential in a 
  strict fashion.  Are approaches of using an image to display a 
  credential, Or someone has shown a vector image SVG blog combined 
  with a template approach. This was a SVG rendered display with 
  the insertion of the actual values of the JSON-LD fields. But 
  there is no standard out there yet for rendering displays.
Instead, basic agreement of minimal field set to display.
Should have Name ,optional description of the credential type 
  (course completion credential type)
Taking a page from the Universal Wallet, let's give the 
  insitution issuer a human readable name a logo - if no logo a 
  generic image
Targeting example spec to render its fields, and if your 
  credential contains these common fields the wallet will render 
  something. If there are specific other fields, e.g., number of 
Under the hood there will be field credential types that can be 
  called upon to display something for those specific credential 
Will target specific credential with their render logic and ask 
  the community to contribute their render logic for the kinds of 
  fields they want to see.
Kerri - if something like aligned skills, or in the short term a 
  URL for the description that could point to information that 
  should be displayed.
How does the university ID a student using the traditional 
  student ID and its relation to a DID.
Next steps - pilot deployment and invited contributions for 
  display logic of fields in the credential.
The community should start thinking about this, doing wire frames 
  and talking to the designers.
Linked data rendering  - assuming you mean and cue of the context 
  of the schema to render them.  "Yes"  They weren't sure if a 
  bulleted list of fields has value over debugging list in raw 
  JSON. There are usability problems with this. There universal 
  mechanism for displaying such field is not settled. Opened to the 
Goal to get get credential on the student's mobile. Requesting 
  the issuing institution to issue that credential. Need to 
  authenticate the student to the issuer, and let the issuer know 
  the DID the credential should be issued to.   Combining OpenID 
  connect, SAML, Shib, etct.
Combining DID authentication and OpenID Connect flows to the 
  issuer to allow issuer to authenticate on the back and have 
  DIDkey or DIDweb used.
A number of security and phishing concerns around deep links.  
  The second gen of deep links are bound to a particular app.
Have the either register a custom protocol handler (what happens 
  when the use doesn't have the proper app installed?) No 
  definition for what happens when a protocol is undefined.
SIOP  working group has mentioned this problem of phishing.  
  Community is aware of this trying to address it.
Are looking at universal link deep links, a regular URL with a 
  request, each domain can be linked to only a particular app. The 
  user experience is much better, but the OS on a mobile device 
  guides the user to download the app, but that's not really 
  representative of a universal interoperability approach.
The student receives a deep link via interacting with Canvas, 
  email or QR code. The scan it and the deep link contains the 
  universal protocol required, who the issuer is (open metadata to 
  start the communication protocol) an invokes the trust framework 
What's the name of the API endpoint to receive the credential. 
  Deep link contains a couple of fields and starts off the 
  communication flow, the credential request to the issuer, the 
  issuer returns the assigned credential with validation typical of 
  VCs in general.
Issuer must know who the student is, what credential to issue, &  
  needs both DID auth and identity of the user from the 
  enterprise's perspective.
<nate_otto> The deep link approach sounds like a good plan.
The deep link process verifies the learner, sends a verification 
  token, the wallet sends back the bearer token and the DID, get 
  the institution to issue the credential.
For learners DIDkey and for issuers DIDkey will be used 
For DIDkey if the learner loses the key they have to ask for a 
<dmitri_zagidulin> the syntax is 'q+ to <topic>'
Has any thought been given if a custodian is trying to get the 
This is a custodial use case, it's the parent or custodian who is 
  requesting the authentication and that custodian is putting in 
  the student's DID
Can you walk through what it looks like for a relying party to 
  connect to the wallet? What would happen if the system wanted to 
  verify the credential?
How 3rd party relying parties can request things from the wallet 
  is a larger conversation
Targeting a primitive universal layer for the initial phase.  
  They are looking at the verifiable presentation request spec and 
  looking to have an automated out of band way for 3rd parties to 
  request a credential from a wallet.
That's for the formal presentation
That's it for the formal presentation.
The cred wallet repo link initially in the text chat is not the 
  right link and the link will be shared when the wallet is 
  released in a couple of weeks.
<nate_otto> Interested to work with Georgia Tech to implement 
  that last flow so that users can present their credentials to 
  relying parties from the wallet so developers can do stuff with 
Interested in producing an MVP but does the project extend beyond 
  that?  Dimitri beleives that is the case but the current funding 
  is for the MVP. Leadership of DCC needs to address on-going work.
Thanks to Dimitri for presenting this!
<kerri_lemoie> To stay updated on the DCC Learner Wallet keep an 
  eye on the CCG mailing list and/or follow the 
  https://github.com/digitalcredentials/docs repo
That's it for today
<phil_barker> thank you
<george_artem> thanks all
<nate_otto> Thanks!

Received on Tuesday, 14 September 2021 21:35:25 UTC

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