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Re: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:04:24 +0200
To: "Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web)" <mwherman@parallelspace.net>, Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr>, 'public-credentials' <public-credentials@w3.org>
Message-ID: <7246e3cb-e07a-baa5-5965-89af9df7054a@gmail.com>
Hi Michael,

Is this the vision you object to?
https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/research/citizen-register.pdf

This system is alive and kicking since the 60'ties in Sweden and is since 20 years back supported by on-line authentication solutions for citizens.  From a technical perspective it works very well.

Nowadays I live in France where there is no citizen ID concept which makes people's digital life much more complicated and most of all, slow and imprecise.

The problem here is showing in a down-to-earth way how an alternative approach would work including funding.


Regarding the EU digital wallet, it probably won't go particularly far since countries like Sweden and France have entirely different ideas about identity systems.  EU created the SEPA system more than 10 years ago but have to date not succeeded making it useful for payments in shops or on-line.

Regards,
Anders


On 2021-09-08 15:21, Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) wrote:
> Nikos and others, I apologize for my use of “far right” in an EU context.  I wasn’t aware of its connection with the Nazis occupation.  I did have a very specific different intended meaning.
> 
> An aside: I am of Polish descent on my mother’s side. Family land was annexed to create part of the Birkenau concentration camp. My great aunt gave refuge to a few that were able to escape. I have visited both the Auschwitz and Birkenau concentration camps twice each in the last 10 years.
> 
> Please accept my sincere apologies,
> 
> Michael
> 
> *From:*Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr>
> *Sent:* September 7, 2021 12:59 PM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>; 'public-credentials' <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Just a friendly note: terms like “very far-right” are sensitive in Europe; accusing people/ideas/project of being far-right, or implying that EU is far-right can be offensive.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Nikos
> 
> *From:*Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 6:35 PM
> *To:* public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>) <public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>
> *Subject:* Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)
> 
> The webcast /Norstella & DIN talks about the European digital identity wallet/ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis>) just finished. Unfortunately, IMO, this initiative is a very good example of a very /far-right centralizationist approach/ to digital identity and credentials (https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/ <https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/>) …and, as an EU initiative, IMO I believe it’s not likely to change.
> 
> That being said, I think it’s instructive and valuable to watch this 1-hour webcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis>) and to form your own opinions. About 30 people attended the original broadcast.
> 
> Here is a list of some of the questions/comments I posed.  A highlight of the webcast is that most were presented and considered/answered by the panel.  Thank you.
> 
> *My List of Questions/Comments*
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Are you actually authenticating the values of the attributes? ...or perhaps, more accurately, are you simply providing for the verifiability of the digital container/envelope for the attribute data?
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​How will a corner grocery store or convenience store or other small business be able to self-issue credentials?
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Does the scope of what can be stored in the wallet include verifiable business documents such as purchase orders, invoices, waybills, and delivery confirmations?
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​If the attribute data being provided is part of my personal data (data I own and control), how do I as a person get paid?
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Comment: Sounds very much like a centralizationist directed project. Very unfortunate.
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Another good article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/ <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/>
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right centralizationists: https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/ <https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/>
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right centralizationists: https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/ <https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/>
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​How are you engaging with the needs of individual citizens and small business? ...vs. large commercial "sectors" and governments?
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Please ask about people getting paid for their data
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Background: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/ <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/>
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​Read https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/ <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/>
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> ​People are actors too
> 
> DIN
> 
> ​https://meet.jit.si/DIN-TPS <https://meet.jit.si/DIN-TPS>
> 
> DIN
> 
> ​that link and heyja as password
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michael Herman
> 
> Far Left Self-Sovereignist
> 
> First Principles Thinker
> 
> Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
> 
> Trusted Digital Web
> 
> Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
> 
> Parallelspace Corporation
> 
Received on Wednesday, 8 September 2021 14:05:41 UTC

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