Re: Propose vc-examples-registry work item.

Making sure Joe and Christopher see this thread re. scheduling for an
upcoming meeting

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 3:00 PM Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
wrote:

> I would be happy to do that…and I think it can be done w/o too much
> argument.
>
>
>
> There is one other issue that Steve raises that we may also want to
> consider….which I am pretty sure is going to have stepping into a HUGE moat
> of alligators…Changing what the first ‘D’ in DID stands for.  It is indeed
> confusing to have a standard around Decentralized things that also supports
> Centralized things.
>
>
>
> Could we change that ‘D’ to something like “Dedicated” or “Distributed” or
> ??
>
>
>
> Also, is this the right mailing list to discuss changing the DID spec on?
> Is there a DID WG or related group and/or list??
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries>
> *Date: *Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 4:05 PM
> *To: *"Joosten, H.J.M. (Rieks)" <rieks.joosten@tno.nl>
> *Cc: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "daniel.hardman@evernym.com"
> <daniel.hardman@evernym.com>, "W3C Credentials CG (Public List)" <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Propose vc-examples-registry work item.
>
>
>
> I'd welcome a PRs that removed the concept of ledgers from the did core
> spec entirely... its an answer to "How" it belongs in the implementation
> guide, it does not belong in the did core spec IMO.
>
> OS
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 11:01 AM Joosten, H.J.M. (Rieks) <
> rieks.joosten@tno.nl> wrote:
>
> I guess I fell for the suggestions in the spec that emphasize ledgers. I
> based my statement on texts such as the following from the current spec
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528295518&sdata=Z1PAmdMoFCY4JGPQdoC5FLhGg7dSjrNoLImB4d0NhO4%3D&reserved=0>
> :
>
>    - Chapter 1, Introduction, paragraph 2 (entire text) states that DLTs
>    provide the opportunity for fully decentralized identity management, and
>    further elaborates on this, thereby strongly suggesting a focus on DLT's. I
>    agree that this does not imply the converse.
>    - Chapter 1, Introduction, paragraph 4: "DID methods
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-did-methods&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528295518&sdata=tOZ3N4xiq7k6U2fWuaVgzd4ZnXF40eJNkSNEGPm2ayw%3D&reserved=0>
>    are the mechanism by which a DID
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-decentralized-identifiers&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528305510&sdata=UxO7UZ2GchWQrBaiLSuGOrLOwY4WFU4t%2B%2FCw6p51wT4%3D&reserved=0>
>    and its associated DID document
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-did-documents&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528305510&sdata=wZdTOem4RWGz9fdu1xn13pA91nnCOrUS8CqwTeQSUMI%3D&reserved=0>
>    are created, read, updated, and deactivated on a specific distributed
>    ledger
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-distributed-ledger-technology&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528305510&sdata=XuStfzFl2n0GFJN4hc1PWBG9IusAZjVH%2BKceV%2B3Frvw%3D&reserved=0>
>    or network." The 'or network' is the escape here that seems to allow for
>    different things than ledgers, but what that would mean does not become
>    clear from the text itself.
>    - Chapter 2, Terminology, decentralized identifier (DID): "A globally
>    unique identifier that does not require a centralized registration
>    authority because it is registered with distributed ledger technology
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-distributed-ledger-technology&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528315510&sdata=2Z47LFucxmmEg7wE%2FebCD2LDe52%2BtB2P1z%2F99Tv0ob8%3D&reserved=0>
>    (DLT) or other form of decentralized network." Same as previous bullet.
>    - Chapter 2, Terminology, DID method): " A definition of how a
>    specific DID scheme
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-did-schemes&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528315510&sdata=%2Bq0od1cEGS7azkmoqEM1rSW6XCTEgaU4PXf%2BWC5hIJQ%3D&reserved=0>
>    can be implemented on a specific distributed ledger
>    <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fdid-core%2F%23dfn-distributed-ledger-technology&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C4d75d1c8c30d4d73b1e508d7cb77c1fc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637201587528325504&sdata=6tHPjg3W1m6cXaiuM6gP8CtjafWaA94RbuKKIVFhgnE%3D&reserved=0>
>    or network". Same as previous bullet.
>
> So you are right, while the use of DLT-stuff is (strongly) suggested by
> the standard, it is not required.
>
>
>
> With respect to
>
>    - > the DID-stuff aims to enable interaction (communication) with the
>    entity identified by the DID
>    - That’s also not something that I see mentioned anywhere in the DID
>    spec.  Can you please quote a source?
>
> That's the 4th sentence of the Abstract.
>
>
>
> Rieks
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* woensdag 18 maart 2020 13:31
> *To:* Joosten, H.J.M. (Rieks) <rieks.joosten@tno.nl>;
> daniel.hardman@evernym.com
> *Cc:* Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries>; W3C Credentials CG (Public
> List) <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Propose vc-examples-registry work item.
>
>
>
> > And rightfully so since the core DID spec  explicitly states that
> DID-stuff belongs on DLTs
>
> >
>
> I think you need to re-read the spec again, as that is clearly *NOT* the
> case.
>
>
>
> Right in Section 1 (Introduction), the first note is very clear on the
> topic:
>
>
>
> NOTE: DID methods can also be developed for identifiers registered in
> federated or centralized identity management systems. Indeed, all types of
> identifier systems can add support for DIDs. This creates an
> interoperability bridge between the worlds of centralized, federated, and
> decentralized identifiers.
>
>
>
> > the DID-stuff aims to enable interaction (communication) with the
> entity identified by the DID
>
> >
>
> That’s also not something that I see mentioned anywhere in the DID spec.
> Can you please quote a source?
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *"Joosten, H.J.M. (Rieks)" <rieks.joosten@tno.nl>
> *Date: *Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 4:27 AM
> *To: *"daniel.hardman@evernym.com" <daniel.hardman@evernym.com>, Leonard
> Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc: *Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries>, "W3C Credentials CG
> (Public List)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Propose vc-examples-registry work item.
>
>
>
> And rightfully so since the core DID spec  explicitly states that
> DID-stuff belongs on DLTs. Also, according to the same spec (see the
> abstract), the DID-stuff aims to enable interaction (communication) with
> the entity identified by the DID, which is quite different from schemas.
>
>
> So why specify that you need a DID to refer to a schema if we can
> generalize this to a URI? Doing so does not exclude DIDs since they are a
> specialization of URIs so you can still use the examples.
>
> Rieks
> ------------------------------
>
> *Van:* Daniel Hardman <daniel.hardman@evernym.com>
> *verzonden:* woensdag 18 maart 2020 01:32
> *Aan:* Leonard Rosenthol
> *Cc:* Orie Steele; W3C Credentials CG (Public List)
> *Onderwerp:* Re: Propose vc-examples-registry work item.
>
>
>
> There is a clear bias there towards DIDs (and VC’s in general) that are
> based on ledgers of some fashion.
>
>
>
> Touché. :-)
>
>
>
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> --
>
> *ORIE STEELE*
>
> Chief Technical Officer
>
> www.transmute.industries
>
>
>
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