W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-credentials@w3.org > June 2020

Re: New Work Item Proposal: Universal Wallet 2020

From: Dmitri Zagidulin <dzagidulin@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 21:33:16 -0400
Message-ID: <CANnQ-L7pgd3XmvSR20okp7kLyyfV2Yrnr5QMx=2uufR1=uVcSg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Cc: Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries>, Wayne Chang <wyc@fastmail.fm>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
+1 to what Dan and Leonard said. I find the #4 / "Gold Standard" part to be
pretty much a deal-breaker.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 8:52 PM Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
wrote:

> I had never looked at the Wikipedia definition – but I would agree
> completely with that definition.    And it also goes towards why I don’t
> believe that you’d end up with a “reference implementation” – mostly
> because of #2 and #4.
>
>
>
> For some definition of “contribute” – yes.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries>
> *Date: *Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 8:05 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc: *Wayne Chang <wyc@fastmail.fm>, Manu Sporny <
> msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: New Work Item Proposal: Universal Wallet 2020
>
>
>
> Everytime this comes up, I wonder why members of this community seem
> opposed to the wikipedia definition:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_implementation
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FReference_implementation&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399368234&sdata=Z749IwCQ27vDDd5B%2Byf%2BE5FbdoVHT7L4TWeBtMN6LEo%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Characteristics of a Reference Implementation:
>
> 1.   Developed concurrently with the specification and test suite;
>
> 2.   Verifies that specification is implementable;
>
> 3.   Enables the test suite to be tested;
>
> 4.   Serves as a Gold Standard against which other implementations can be
> measured;
>
> 5.   Helps to clarify the intent of the specification in situations where conformance
> tests
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FConformance_testing&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399378226&sdata=O5qUJX0qLFNeqxASm1LGa4HfpP1EFBizDQJCRchx7BI%3D&reserved=0> are
> inadequate
>
>
>
> Does W3C specifically discourage the use of the term "reference
> implementation".... I assumed this was a common practice:
> https://github.com/webofthings/webofthings.js
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fwebofthings%2Fwebofthings.js&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399378226&sdata=01gF8L3pFl%2FB2AFAVFYWDJgiHUSQmphCcId8X31MFRs%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Regardless of the name, these are the characteristics I'm looking for. As
> wikipedia notes, "sample" or "model" implementation are less
> frequently used terms for the same thing.
>
>
>
> There are some conformance tests, and I can see a lot of value in keeping
> them next to the spec and "sample implementation", I'm generally a fan of
> starting with a mono repo and splitting things up when it becomes obvious
> that it is the right thing to do because there is too much contribution for
> one repo to handle, or because sub components are getting consumed
> independently almost as frequently as they are getting consumed together.
>
> If there is reason to believe there will be more contribution overall if
> the "sample implementation" is also in W3C CCG repos, I'm happy to do
> that... I saw splitting them up as a potential opportunity to
> engage multiple communities and AFAIK you can contribute to Apache 2.0
> software regardless of the github organization that hosts it, for example:
> https://github.com/adobe/experience-platform-dsw-reference
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fadobe%2Fexperience-platform-dsw-reference&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399388230&sdata=S2LwBiCJCVdRe9UA%2FG2IcgMFBmkvoZNYuui%2Bigltahw%3D&reserved=0> is
> also Apache 2.0 with a CLA...
>
> Leonard, should I interpret your strong desire that "an example
> implementation" stay in CCG as an indication of a strong desire / plan to
> contribute to it here?
>
> OS
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:23 PM Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> wrote:
>
> "Reference Implementation" means that it is the "blessed/approved "
> implementation which implements 100% of a specification to the agreement of
> all parties involved.
>
> "Conforming" implies that (a) the specification has normative requirements
> to which the software can conform and that (b) someone(s) have all agreed
> that it meets 100% of the requirements.
>
> Example implementation is probably best.
>
> Leonard
>
> On 6/24/20, 4:47 PM, "Wayne Chang" <wyc@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>     Manu, could you please elaborate on your concerns about calling
> certain code a "reference implementation"? What drawbacks are there, and
> what else could we call it? "Example implementation"? "Conforming
> implementation"?
>
>     On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Manu Sporny wrote:
>     > On 6/24/20 3:31 PM, Orie Steele wrote:
>     > > We're looking for additional organizations to co-edit / sponsor the
>     > > development of the specification in the W3C CCG.
>     >
>     > Digital Bazaar is supportive of this specification and hosting it in
> the
>     > W3C CCG.
>     >
>     > We have no strong opinion on hosting an implementation at DIF as
> long as
>     > doing so wouldn't create IPR issues that would restrict anyone from
>     > contributing to the work. We continue to be skeptical of calling it a
>     > "reference implementation".
>     >
>     > While we do not have the spare cycles to be a co-editor on the
>     > specification, we do expect to be heavily involved in discussion
> related
>     > to the specification as we expect that the outcome will have a direct
>     > impact on our product offerings.
>     >
>     > Finally, thank you to Orie, Margo, and Guillaume from Transmute for
>     > putting this together and kicking off the work. It's a critical piece
>     > that the industry will need in order to interoperate at the
> application
>     > layer.
>     >
>     > -- manu
>     >
>     > --
>     > Manu Sporny -
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fmanusporny%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C54db72b34f034e36a6cb08d8187fbe4f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286284216262630&amp;sdata=nGVOqadvTWe01uCzQIDa715%2BpTZeqEouewEEF9aXYoA%3D&amp;reserved=0
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>     > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>     > blog: Veres One Decentralized Identifier Blockchain Launches
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fveres-one-launches&amp;data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C54db72b34f034e36a6cb08d8187fbe4f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286284216262630&amp;sdata=u%2F66e1Uy8HbOvk58Sf3i8RsUKFzdpltLbtSxsNaXnVI%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fveres-one-launches&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399398217&sdata=cO9aFSg02WsU5wofFr%2BFXi7ow1ZdI5HB%2BziNet2vZW4%3D&reserved=0>
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *ORIE STEELE*
>
> Chief Technical Officer
>
> www.transmute.industries
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.transmute.industries%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C3e1490699ab7494574d908d8189b7dd5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637286403399398217&sdata=kNCMPPSDpCYo1F3N2HZeIXwaGfB7%2BLLAQUqZLY1Mrzo%3D&reserved=0>
>
Received on Thursday, 25 June 2020 01:33:42 UTC

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