W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-credentials@w3.org > July 2020

[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2020-07-07 12pm ET

From: W3C CCG Chairs <w3c.ccg@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 12:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5f076ba6.1c69fb81.615d7.8812@mx.google.com>
Thanks to Gregory Rocco for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-07-07/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2020-07-07

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Jul/0002.html
Topics:
  1. Announcements & Reminders
  2. Progress on Action Items
  3. Roundtable: “What’s in a wallet?” Part 1
Organizer:
  Heather Vescent and Kim Hamilton Duffy and Wayne Chang
Scribe:
  Gregory Rocco
Present:
  Tyler Adams, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Heather Vescent, Kyle Kemper, 
  Anil John, Wayne Chang, Simone Ravaoli, Ryan Grant, Christopher 
  Allen, Gregory Rocco, Ganesh Annan, Erica Connell, Brent Zundel, 
  James Chartrand, Orie Steele, Markus Sabadello, Manu Sporny, Andy 
  Thomas, Kerri Lemoie, Mike Prorock, Jacksohne, Adrian Gropper, 
  Kaliya Young, Dmitri Zagidulin, Joe Andrieu, Dave Longley, Stuart 
  Freeman, Adam Lemmon, Taylor Kendall, Amy Guy, Yancy Ribbens, 
  Jeff Orgel, Nate Otto, Moses Ma, Phil Long, Daniel Buchner, 
  Drummond Reed, Tim Bouma
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-07-07/audio.ogg

Tyler Adams: Hello everyone! :)
Kyle Kemper: Great to be here! Hoping everyone is having a 
  terrific day
Heather Vescent: Great to have you here Kyle!
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Gregory Rocco is scribing.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Gregory Rocco works with Wayne on the Spruce 
  team
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Anyone else new to the call that wants to 
  introduce themselves
Tyler Adams:  I work on moonlight and vivid SSI project
Kyle Kemper:  Presenting a little bit - great to be here, founder 
  of Swisskey, crypto since 2013. Technology will help us unlock 
  golden age.
Heather Vescent: Love it Kyle! New golden age, I am with you!
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We'll have another opportunity for intros 
  next week - this is also where we ask for reintroductions. Will 
  jump over the list. Joe Andrieu, Adrian Gropper are you here?
Adrian Gropper:  Volunteer cto of a non-profit, I lead a project 
  for many years trying to demonstrate self sov. technology, not 
  just ID but how we use other standards to let people run their 
  own authorization servers where we process VCs and DIDs

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Next is Anil -
Anil John:  Save it for the Q&A
Kaliya Young:  John jordan was in a bad accident, I created a 
  virtual card for folks to sign - will put the link in the chat
Kaliya Young: https://miro.com/app/board/o9J_kp34wZs=/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: http://www.cvent.com/d/fhqnf3/4W
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you, sorry to hear about that 
  accident. For the other announcements and reminders, I'm 
  including a link where we track - not a whole lot going on but we 
  do have Identiverse which turned into a virtual conference and 
  that series began in June and is going through the 6th of August. 
  So in case you are still interested in participating, joining the 
  link is here.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Our other ongoing reminders: usual CCG 
  timeslot, we do have a couple of taskforces associated but the 
  first one is the VC for Education taskforce which is at mondays 
  8am PST, 11 EST, DID resolution calls are at 1PM PST, 4PM EST.

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  That's it for the announcements and 
  reminders - next in the agenda, we have a bit on products and 
  action items.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22action%3A+review+next%22
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  So progress on action items - a couple we're 
  working through. I'll include a link to it in IRC - there are two 
  items and we're hoping to move through these quickly. Basically 
  we don't need to resolve these, just identify blockers and figure 
  out any steps.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/109
Manu Sporny: +1 That item belongs to DID WG.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Issue #109: closed out, issue there is that 
  the CCG believes this is going to be passed over to the DID 
  working group and so it looks like we just want confirmation that 
  it belongs to that group and we can close it.
Manu Sporny:  It's confirmed that it's on Dan B's plate from the 
  DID working group and we'll be handing that over to the wg so 
  they can finish that off to get the tech/architecture group 
  input.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/3
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I've added a comment and will follow up. 
  Next item: complete update to RSA signature suite. We had a bit 
  of a discussion, what we wanted to do - no traction on the work 
  item but we identified a related issue to create a new issue. 
  Effectively what manu proposed: specific concerns around JWS 2020 
  so the current proposal is to close this one and create a new one 
  to track those concerns. Thoughts or objections?
Kaliya Young:  I was on q for announcements for jj
Orie Steele: Related: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/lds-jws2020
Orie Steele: It covers the NIST curves and ed25519 and secp256k1
Manu Sporny:  Right so the RSA sig suite discussion resulted in 
  Orie proposing a JWS signature suite like a jose signature suite, 
  that discussion will likely happen in a DID special topic call - 
  we need to figure out how we're going to integrate that with --- 
  used for expressing legacy signature suite, RSA, things like that 
  b26r1, if anyone's interested in participating -- based on the 
  outcome of that, we may want to discuss the outcome of that in 
  the communit[CUT]
Manu Sporny:  Not this week but next week we'll have a special 
  topic announced - outcome of call will be made public, CCG will 
  decide if they want to discuss the outcome.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I will add an update to this issue and we 
  will follow up.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Okay great - that is it for action items
Wayne Chang: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Jun/0203.html
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Jun/0203.html
Wayne Chang: Call for objections sent almost 2 weeks ago
Kim Hamilton Duffy:   Before we move into the meat of the call, 
  want to talk about method registry - we moved it over to the DID 
  working group and that means we're retiring it from CCG - so 
  Wayne sent a call for objections two weeks ago. Wayne - what was 
  the deadline?
Wayne Chang:  I think it was almost two weeks - if there's no 
  objections, we're clear.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Last call for objections - we have not 
  received anything so far so we can proceed with closing it out so 
  we'll move forward.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  If you heard some choppy audio, in addition 
  to our communication issues we had a gremlin muting speakers. We 
  should remind everyone if you can speak clearly and slowly, that 
  would help a lot. Now we are ready for the roundtable
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I'm going to ask Wayne to set up 
  expectations for discussion

Topic: Roundtable: “What’s in a wallet?” Part 1

Wayne Chang:  Basically, we are growing as an ecosystem, whenever 
  that happens you run the risk of people talking over each other - 
  just going on guidelines will help us have productive discussions 
  to get to outcomes we like instead of flame wars.
Wayne Chang: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/140
Wayne Chang:  There's a bunch of emotional energy spent - how do 
  we keep the conversation on track. We opened this communication 
  culture issue and we captured 4 links so far - just some reading 
  material, just some good social guidelines to follow rather than 
  people showing off deep intellect and to be kind to one another.
Wayne Chang:  Just to cherry pick: some social rules: no "well 
  actually" - when you try to make a point and someone wants to nit 
  pick that's tangential and serves no purpose. That doesn't move 
  anything forward. No surprise - especially for newcomers, also 
  subtleisms - avoid - if you're trying to make an example, think 
  carefully and make sure the analogies are extensible and 
  welcoming. These are some examples of behaviors to avoid as a 
  community - no hard and[CUT]
Wayne Chang:  Last of all, let's try to listen to listen - I hope 
  that sets a pretty good headspace for everyone to be in this 
  week.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you Wayne - we have 4 speakers today, 
  Manu, Chris, Dan, Kyle K - each are scheduled for 5 minutes with 
  the remainder for Q&A. So I'm going to kick off Manu - i'll be 
  aggressively booting people off after 5 min.
Manu Sporny:  Thanks Kim - and thanks to the chairs for the 
  invitation. I apologize, the diagram I put together is overly 
  technical so I'm going to ground the discussion a bit.
Manu Sporny:  There are many different views - what it is, what 
  it does, some people think of wallets like cryptocurrency and 
  they deal with cryptographic material, others think of them in an 
  analog to your physical wallet. You keep credit cards, loyalty 
  cards, you know, pieces of paper that are important for you when 
  interacting with the world.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Manu's diagram fyi: 
  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y6zKKm3hGVL6Z9cRfDGQvLXxHBE79ODw/view?usp=sharing
Manu Sporny:  Many different variations in between - there's no 
  clear understanding about what is, what isn't, and what a digital 
  wallet should and shouldn't do. I'm going to outline standards 
  that in pre-standards work that we've been doing here as well as 
  work in the DIF storage working group in a tech architecture kind 
  of way. Apologies to the non-technical or those not following the 
  work.
Manu Sporny:  What I'm getting to is a simple wallet 
  architecture: from my perspective: a wallet is something that you 
  use that is digital, on mobile phone/in web browser, holds 
  digital things (pictures, your ID docs, your dependents 
  healthcare certs,), it stores that for you, it's yours, you 
  control access to the information, and basically you use it to 
  manage critical parts of digital life.
Manu Sporny: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Jul/att-0006/2020_W3C_CCG_Simple_Wallet_Architecture.pdf
Manu Sporny:  At a high-level - one definition we can use - I'm 
  sharing the link in the chat to a diagram I sent yesterday around 
  what these things that make up a wallet look like. These are the 
  technical bits and pieces that we've been working on and how 
  they're used together to provide this digital wallet experience. 
  To interact with issuers, verifiers, etc.
Manu Sporny:  There are three components that we've identified - 
  number of companies in this group that have done work around 
  encrypted data vaults that have wallet front-end services and 
  have some kind of key management - there are three pieces.
Manu Sporny:  First - the one we all interact with - the wallet 
  service. It's a website, an app, has buttons you click on and 
  basically interact-with. This is the GUI to manage the digital 
  things in your wallet. That's the lowest purple box - we use 
  something called a credential handler API to move things in and 
  out of your wallet -
Dave Longley: Credential Handler API == "CHAPI"
Manu Sporny:  The wallet is backed by two other things - the 
  wallet facade is in the front, but behind the scenes: 1. key 
  service - this is what deals with your pub priv keys and gives 
  you the security you need around the wallet. Public private 
  cryptography backed by hardware modules that are difficult to 
  compromise so there's a digital signature aspect of the wallet 
  and you get access via web kms service.
Dmitri Zagidulin: For those interested in CHAPI - this repo has 
  link to the CHAPI spec, as well as demo sites: 
  https://github.com/digitalbazaar/credential-handler-polyfill
Orie Steele: I wish WebAuthN supported raw signatures... and 
  could be used for things other than authentication.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Encrypted Data Vault spec (as part of the 
  Secure Data Store spec) - 
  https://identity.foundation/secure-data-store/
Manu Sporny:  And then the other thing behind the scenes is the 
  encrypted data vault: the thing that stores and protects the data 
  from prying eyes and ensures consent. Those encrypted data vaults 
  hold aspects of your life -credentials that you need for work, 
  music that you listen to but you keep in another vault, and maybe 
  one for family photos in another. We use the vault api to get to 
  it
Manu Sporny:  In it's most simplistic view, that is the 
  fundamental technical part that goes into a wallet and 
  more-or-less how we view the most basic form of wallet.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you so much - chris you're up
Christopher Allen: 
  https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rwot9-prague/blob/master/topics-and-advance-readings/whats-wallet.md
Christopher Allen: 
  https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rwot9-prague/master/topics-and-advance-readings/media/ExpandedDecentralizedIdentityNetworkComponents.png
Christopher Allen:  So i'm sharing the general paper that this 
  came from and I'm now sharing the very specific diagram in there.
Christopher Allen:  Basically I wanted to walk folks through this 
  diagram to explain what we're trying to do and say what we felt 
  was missing - Joe and I initially took a look at a simplified 
  diagram around digital ID wallets which is included in the paper, 
  and then also we tried to do the same for digital currency 
  wallets and basically developed a more advanced look at both of 
  those because a lot of the things are common but areas where 
  they're different.
Christopher Allen:  What you see here: a lot of nodes and 
  different aspects of what is in your wallet, clearly toward the 
  center you see what people perceive as the wallet (going down - 
  human interfaces, trusted interfaces to hardware - need to trust 
  we're getting the right information) - upward we have various 
  kinds of storage and relationships that the wallet needs to do
Christopher Allen:  Then we have this red line: the trust line 
  where the wallet has to trust cryptographic surfaces through API, 
  airgapped, but that line needed to be marked as important that 
  leads to cryptographic services under control of the wallet and 
  then of course going right as we go toward network interface, we 
  have a trust surface of the wallet's network interface to the 
  broader network.
Ryan Grant: Sorry, the dottet lines represent what?  the gremlin 
  cut you off.
Christopher Allen:  Dotted lines represent ---- API that there 
  was state information or other information being conveyed whether 
  or not it was a proof - or things that weren't strictly an API. 
  Had hoped to take this to the next level, felt that a number of 
  these nodes were named differently by different platforms in the 
  self-sov community, some of these nodes should be 2-3 stacked 
  items with different names as a stack.
Christopher Allen:  I am also fairly certain and know that we're 
  missing nodes and anything in here about 
  recovery/revocation/delegation/reputation/onboarding/TOU, various 
  kinds of evaluative components, and updates and pricing - if 
  you're going to have a cryptocurrency thing in here. We had hoped 
  we can get 1-each from the different wallet vendors on different 
  SSI platforms to help us take this to the next level but also 
  start naming the arrows. We didn't [CUT]
Christopher Allen:   Was a mistake - we needed to name the arrows 
  as well as defining the nodes - that's where we left the project.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks so much - now we have dan b
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Need to come back to him - kyle would you be 
  ready to go
Kyle Kemper:  Alright - thank you kim for having me and first 
  off, want to say big thank-you to this community who is 
  developing the core infrastructure on which this tech will play 
  out. My name is Kyle Kemper - been in crypto since 2013, in 2015 
  I had my wallet vision download around what will be truly 
  possible when we have SSI and have self-custody wallets that are 
  unified.
Kyle Kemper:  I wrote a book called "unified wallet" - it's a 
  vision on how we can unlock seamless experiences. Personally I'm 
  not a deeply technical person, I am a developer - my journey has 
  brought me to the point where I'm building a brand called 
  SwissKey - problem in the ecosystem of trust.
Kyle Kemper:  Closely aligned (digtial currency and ID), currency 
  is the cash slip and the card slots are the verified claims, 
  assets, objects in our super wallets. Been building swisskey for 
  the last year being in switzerland and being impressed with their 
  values and sensibilities - hallmarks of neutrality, and their 
  strong and subliminal messages -
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Daniel said he was muted fyi. Have we muted 
  him here?
Kyle Kemper:  It represents safety at the subliminal level - I'm 
  seeking to build out a suite of wallet products to enable 
  secure/simply operate in this new digital paradigm. We are going 
  to be holding keys for different solutions be it money, identity, 
  loyalty. I am grateful to be here to express this project that 
  I'm working on and make myself available to everyone on the call. 
  I feel we all share this transformational purpose.
Kyle Kemper:  Make this all accessible to the masses.
Wayne Chang:  Hey kyle - really quickly, the topic is what is a 
  wallet - wanted to leave some room for that.
Daniel Buchner: Hey Kim
Daniel Buchner: On IRC now
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Hi Daniel, we found the culprit. You 
  shouldn't have to do anything to unmute. We unblocked you
Manu Sporny: https://swisskey.io/
Kyle Kemper:  In terms of the technical path, I'm working with 
  edge wallet, and then we are working with Tangem who are the 
  makers of a hardware wallet, NFC card, they're exploring into the 
  ID space so we can have a physical card as well - the digital 
  wallet is important but there's a need for hard cards. These 
  represent the "DVDs" for netflix.
Kyle Kemper:  That's basically kind of it from me in terms of 
  this - thank you - I yield back my time.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you so much, now we figured out the 
  root of the issue - we muted daniel - can you try to speak.
Daniel Buchner:  Dan Buchner, work at Microsoft. We have a wallet 
  in the market doing legacy identity things like logins, etc. 30M 
  users on that current app and that's what we're delivering some 
  of our stuff with (DID) - so users have keys
Daniel Buchner:  Part of the aspiration is to create portability 
  specs so you can re-instantiate it on other wallets. 3 
  components: 1. encrypted outer envelope: data you need to encrypt 
  needs multiple types of encryption strategies, shamir, whatever 
  you want to do to secure it. 2. There's a lot of data over time 
  in this payload - need to make it something that isn't 100s of 
  MBs of JSON. Something that can be inflated and understood.
Daniel Buchner:  What goes into that payload may include things 
  like keys but context as well. Context to use your DIDs in - many 
  people might think "well, good enough to have keys for DID and 
  re-instantiate" but context is a sensitive security thing to 
  protect, but if I had 1000 DIDs and didn't know what I used them 
  for, I would be lost.
Daniel Buchner:  If I just use random DIDs with people, I would 
  slowly be leaking sensitive context and relationships with 
  people. Whatever we do should be able to handle that goal. Those 
  are the major pieces we hope to standardize and we're here to 
  work with folks on that.
Manu Sporny: +1 To what Daniel said! :)
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Fantastic, thank you so much -we've gone 
  through our speakers and it's good time for Q&A
Kyle Kemper: Kylejjkemper@gmail.com
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Any questions - just add yourself
Kyle Kemper: http://swisskey.io
Kyle Kemper: My mission: make crypto and DID accessible to the 
  masses
Wayne Chang:  So I wanted to summarize a bit and people feel free 
  to type in the chat. We heard "what is a wallet" - we heard a 
  bunch of different perspectives - interfaces to capabilities and 
  mapping - what's that. Philosophically, what does a wallet make 
  someone feel or how is it used by a person - and what are the 
  technical requirements we have on scalability and security.
Wayne Chang:  Common thread: interfaces and the ability to make 
  components for these interfaces. Also mention what prompted this 
  conversation was the recent presentation of what was called the 
  universal wallet spec by Ori at Transmute - as we begin to see 
  these emergent standards - that's all the comments I have.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We have adrian
Orie Steele: Good question :)
Adrian Gropper:  Quick comment - I am certainly a user not a 
  developer, I'm trying to figure out the business model as what 
  are essential vs. optional. My question: how is a SSI wallet 
  going to differ from my 1Password wallet which right now is the 
  closest in terms of business models and functionality as far as I 
  can tell - in other words, has a lot of characteristics plus APIs 
  and it's self sov to a large extent because it doesn't share 
  data.
Kyle Kemper: If interested go to https://dl.edge.app/swisskey to 
  download Edge Wallet; we are working with Edge to rebrand their 
  wallet...
Heather Vescent: Great question Adrian
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Did any speakers have a response to that? If 
  more than one we'll let the first person go.
Kyle Kemper:  In terms of the business model in the self 
  sovereign wallet they all speak to our project and we are making 
  revenues when people are buying and selling crypto, trading, 
  redeeming - we're selling the physical cards as well - we're 
  going to be utilizing the physical cards as recovery methods - 
  comparing a 1Pass or a LastPass to the wallet, those are 
  excellent examples of keychains but they're dumb. The assets 
  can't speak to each other
Daniel Buchner: We hope wallets are as free and open as browsers, 
  and should cost users $0 to run (possibly with sane constraints 
  for consumption, if there are any major cost incurrences)
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I'm talking with the chairs about 
  key-management was going to call out Christopher and Manu or if 
  they wanted to respond.
Kyle Kemper: Wallets definitely need to be free
Christopher Allen:  I'm actually fairly concerned about wallets - 
  I feel that a lot of the business models for them are subtly 
  corrupting in the cryptocurrency field or selling some hardware 
  or you're making your money from accepting a particular 
  cryptocurrency so you'll get 100-200k if you do some oddball 
  currency.
Manu Sporny: +1 To the corrupting influence of cryptocurrency 
  wallets :)
Dave Longley: "Free" has a cost :)
Dave Longley: "Facebook" is "free"
Daniel Buchner: Wallets, DID Networks, and other core infra/UA 
  stuff should be so mind-numbingly commoditized as public 
  utilities, it should cost you more to monetize them than you 
  would make in doing so
Christopher Allen:  Or you'll get a bunch of tokens from a 
  company that you can speculate with and turn into a return. I 
  worry about that trend happening in our environment - right now 
  every platform developer has their own wallet to incentivize 
  their own DIDs and VCs scenarios but people aren't going to want 
  to have 8 of these wallets - people want 1 wallet that works with 
  Sov, Ion, DIDWeb and whatever else that their vendors/issuers 
  want them to use.
Christopher Allen:  That makes for a difficult business model for 
  the wallet vendor at the bottom - if you look at my diagram, 
  there's a lot of pieces so it's not like a wallet is an easy 
  thing to build.
Moses Ma: Can someone compile a list of DID-friendly open source, 
  templates and reference wallets that developers can review?
Daniel Buchner: Just so freaking, absurdly open and cheap that 
  it's not even something we consider trying to squeeze $ from
Christopher Allen:  You're building 3 layers - trustable layer 
  for security implications, --- i'm concerned.
Kyle Kemper: Agree on all points...listing fees are definitely an 
  issue and creates gatekeepers...how do we allow tokens and 
  projects to freely list themselves vs paying to play
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  So we can work through questions 30 second 
  replies is the going-amount. What we'll do - we'll work through 
  the q in order.
Phil Long:  Thank you kim - curious about what the community 
  thinks or what the presenter thinks are the minimum viable 
  functions, and the distinction between OSS and value added 
  services layer that take advantage of the contents of wallets 
  with the consent of the owner.
Dave Longley: Dbuc, just want to make sure we're wary of wallets 
  becoming like facebook wrt data model (that would represent the 
  antithesis of the work here, IMO)
Kyle Kemper: Send, Receive, Request, Transaction History, 
  Recoverability...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you phil -
Daniel Buchner: Sure, definitely not surveillance wallets
Daniel Buchner: That's a given
Daniel Buchner: I just mean that it should be like Firefox
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm doing tech research - dan can answer first as 
  most active wallet. What are the most compelling reasons 
  individuals will adopt wallets.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Dan if you add to q
Orie Steele:  Wanted to respond to adrian's question around 
  password managers - they're the most familiar analogy for storing 
  credentials (in this case logins) - I think structurally if you 
  look at their business models, a lot of them have similar 
  structures to Manu's diagrams with encrypted data vault - they 
  rely on client-side encrypt, they have various different data 
  model structures for storage and that's a point of 
  differentiation - some of them support [CUT]
Orie Steele:  Some structure data. A lot of them charge for 
  multi-device replication, I think password managers are an 
  excellent thing to consider when we think about what wallets are 
  and how they integrate with other systems
Manu Sporny: +1 To Orie's point on a good analog.
Anil John:  My organization is investing in these things - 
  standardized APIs, goodness of a wallet but what I didn't hear 
  about is the user experience of a wallet. One of the things - we 
  like putting time and pressure behind consent, we are having a 
  competition for user interfaces for wallets. How do you interact 
  with issuer, selective disclosure, presentations - so from UI 
  perspective, focus is on that. Is that something that is going to 
  be of value t[CUT]
Anil John:  Confidence in transaction and user-comfort is 
  important. Is there value in putting money where our mouth is.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I'm excited that you're doing that, if you 
  have comments add to q
Orie Steele: Interesting to note that password manager have 
  "autofill" feature... and CHAPI has a similar functionality for 
  send credentials from the wallet to the websites.
Christopher Allen: I'd like to see a formal information 
  information lifecycle model created for wallets to start a UX 
  requirements
Moses Ma: Again, can the chairs arrange to have someone compile a 
  list of DID-friendly open source, templates and reference wallets 
  that developers can review? My belief aligns with Daniel's... a 
  wallet is a feature, not a product.
Daniel Buchner:  I think there's a variety of reasons re: use 
  cases that identity is still a powerful - we don't charge for 
  wallets or snoop on your stuff - we own a few properties like 
  LinkedIn that would benefit from people creating credentials and 
  exchanging them. Adding that level of trust helps those 
  properties - imagine if recruiter tools said for $1 more we can 
  scan trusted profiles that have the right credentials.
Daniel Buchner:  That's valuable to microsoft - we don't care 
  about monetize, we just want stuff that happens on top of it. 
  This is why we do this for free and not do the thing that other 
  companies do.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks daniel -
Manu Sporny:  Wanted to add to dan and adrians question - what's 
  the nearest analog? Password managers are very good analogies and 
  that's good, the thing that makes what we're doing here different 
  is the standards. No interop between password managers - can't 
  move information between them. One key thing is the interop 
  standards where you can move contents from one wallet to another 
  without it being a disruption in your work life.
Manu Sporny:  So again, not surprisingly standards are the key 
  binding characteristic that makes this different.
Orie Steele: +1 To standards and interoperability
Drummond Reed: +1 To full portability between wallets from 
  different vendors / projects
Manu Sporny: +1 To rocco
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  And I have a special callout - we want to 
  thank Rocco for his excellent note-taking -
Ryan Grant: +1
Wayne Chang: +1 Rocco
Heather Vescent: +1 Rocco thanks for scribing!
Markus Sabadello: +1
Mike Prorock: What is the best way to address wallet usage by non 
  technical users? e.g. we work extensively with users that have 
  limited access to tech and sometimes limited literacy rates, but 
  they have smart phones.... have thoughts been put into those 
  types of usability issues?
Drummond Reed: +1
Dave Longley: +1
Christopher Allen: +1 To scribe
Anil John: +1
Phil Long: +1 Rocco
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1 Thanks rocco!
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thank you for all the speakers for this 
  excellent conversation, thank you and ahve a good day.
Kyle Kemper: +1 Rocco post your doge address
Tim Bouma: +1 Rocco
Moses Ma: Bye peeps
Heather Vescent: Thanks Manu.
Heather Vescent: We have another set of speakers for next week.
Manu Sporny: +1 To that, expect turnout will be about the same, 
  feels like we're just scratching the surface.
Received on Thursday, 9 July 2020 19:10:48 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thursday, 24 March 2022 20:25:01 UTC